Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

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Nox
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Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by Nox »

I have this problem. One of my player has chosen to play a semi-monstruous character(he could be confused for an abomination or some sort of reptile man). I told him he would be mistaken as a monster and templars/citizen will look for him and try to kill him/imprison him but he told me that he likes the concept of having a lizard arm or similar stuff and he doesn't seem to care much about the downsides.
how should I handle this? I want the bestial appearance to have consequences on his character but I don't want the consequences to Be too harsh or central during session and removing space to other players, nor to have him burnt alive or hanged at the second session. I usually struggle with this kind of things because I don't want to deliberately kill my players, and I think they figured this out, so I suspect they feel free to do whatever they want since I will not let them die so easily (at most they will have to fight some temple guards or something similar... ).
Help Please!
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by The Lesser Evil »

From your description it sounds like this might be part of a greater potential conflict in what the players would like to get away with vs. what you would prefer. This conflict may need to be dealt with separately on its own.

On the monstrous PC issue in specific, remember you're within your right to refuse a PC unless you've made a rule to generally accept monster PCs.

As for prejudice and social reactions, I see these things as occurring on a continuum. Lynch mobs are merely the most overt and In a place with hapless, oppressed, and/or victimized commoners, I often play prejudice most of the time avoidance or perhaps giving information that leads unwanted people elsewhere. Basically, subtly nudging outsiders to go elsewhere. If a strange creature encroaches on (or is perceived to encroach on) somebody's territory (like a farmhouse or a business), you might get an instinctive show of force in an attempt to motivate the intruder to find easier victims elsewhere. Fleeing in fear or crying for help might also be a response.

Lynch mobs usually take some time to gather unless the PC goes walking around town out in the open or the townspeople have a reason to find a monster. The presence of human player characters in the company of (and presumingly, vouching for) a monster also complicates things, both for the villager's response and the party's status. On the side of the villagers, killing monster sympathizers may still qualify as murder (whereas monsters alone probably won't have any sort of protection under the law.) The existence of a monster (or at least, a lizard man) among normal PC races makes it different from others of its kind.

On the other hand, fraternizing with "the enemy" may lead NPCs to question the morality and/or sanity of the other player characters. If the PCs' social statuses are negatively impact, they may find the townspeople bestows some of the hatred and revulsion they feel for the lizardman transferred to the entire party. This could be established overtly (refused entry into cities, arrest by town guards) or more covertly (being reported to the darklord or local leaders, rumor mongering, withholding of important information, shunning, etc.)
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by Nox »

The Lesser Evil wrote:From your description it sounds like this might be part of a greater potential conflict in what the players would like to get away with vs. what you would prefer. This conflict may need to be dealt with separately on its own.

On the monstrous PC issue in specific, remember you're within your right to refuse a PC unless you've made a rule to generally accept monster PCs.

As for prejudice and social reactions, I see these things as occurring on a continuum. Lynch mobs are merely the most overt and In a place with hapless, oppressed, and/or victimized commoners, I often play prejudice most of the time avoidance or perhaps giving information that leads unwanted people elsewhere. Basically, subtly nudging outsiders to go elsewhere. If a strange creature encroaches on (or is perceived to encroach on) somebody's territory (like a farmhouse or a business), you might get an instinctive show of force in an attempt to motivate the intruder to find easier victims elsewhere. Fleeing in fear or crying for help might also be a response.

Lynch mobs usually take some time to gather unless the PC goes walking around town out in the open or the townspeople have a reason to find a monster. The presence of human player characters in the company of (and presumingly, vouching for) a monster also complicates things, both for the villager's response and the party's status. On the side of the villagers, killing monster sympathizers may still qualify as murder (whereas monsters alone probably won't have any sort of protection under the law.) The existence of a monster (or at least, a lizard man) among normal PC races makes it different from others of its kind.

On the other hand, fraternizing with "the enemy" may lead NPCs to question the morality and/or sanity of the other player characters. If the PCs' social statuses are negatively impact, they may find the townspeople bestows some of the hatred and revulsion they feel for the lizardman transferred to the entire party. This could be established overtly (refused entry into cities, arrest by town guards) or more covertly (being reported to the darklord or local leaders, rumor mongering, withholding of important information, shunning, etc.)
Thank you for your answer!
I must be onest, this is a problem I have in two different (but similar) setting. In Ravenloft Lynch mobs and pitchforks are quite common. But the thing is that I dont want the player dead right away.
He chose that trait for a benefit, accepting the downsides. Thus i want the downsides to be perceivable but not strictly lethal. Ofcourse if he presents a threat to some villager he will be hunted down, but if he does not why should someone be so angry at him? I mean, Calibans works and live among other humans (sometime) even if they are treated with less respect or just like slaves, they are not (not always at least) killed straight away.
In the other setting the situation is very similar and the folk is more or less like in ravenloft, so questions collide. Maybe in the other setting is slightly more common to see monsters, but not less feared nor less avoided.

Let's make an example. This Lizard guy walks in a random city in Darkon, or Barovia, or any other region with Chivalric technology. Let me describe the guy briefly: The man seems like a completely normal man, except for his arm and part of his neck which are covered by lizard scale. If he can be seen with true vision or similar magic a sigil can be seen on his neck. He tries his best to cover the scales but someone will notice them for sure. What would happend then in your campaign when someone sees the scales in the city market? Consider that he's not doing anything that could pose any threat to anyone, nor he looks like aggressive or anything else. And what if someone see the sigil? Of course in the case someone sees the sigil he should be someone trained in magic, maybe magic user are more aware of monster and such things to not judge a man right away, or maybe not. I wait your advice :)
Thanks in advance!
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by ewancummins »

Maybe an NPC attempts to recruit this PC for a travelling circus or freak show?

''Come see Lizard-Arm, the bastard spawn of a swamp beast and a wayward milkmaid!"
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by Nox »

ewancummins wrote:Maybe an NPC attempts to recruit this PC for a travelling circus or freak show?

''Come see Lizard-Arm, the bastard spawn of a swamp beast and a wayward milkmaid!"
LOL,
I could use it but my problem is more about putting the PC character in troubles for his look without killing him deliberately.
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by ewancummins »

TABLE BELOW

:azalin:
Last edited by ewancummins on Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by ewancummins »

Other stuff:

NPC reactions to Old Liz-Arm

roll 1d6

1 Avoidance: Averted gaze, shuffling away, muttering, signs against the evil eye

2 Flee!

3 All goods and services for the PC and any of his companions will be marked up 100%. Unable to obtain lodgings, or else overcharged and shown to the stables.

4 Watch or lord's henchmen shadow PC through streets. The armed men will arrest or subdue the PC if he does anything alarming, but don't attack him without reason.

5 Naughty children throw rotten vegetables and dung at the freak. If the freak reacts with violence or chases the kids, adults rush to protect the kids.

6 People seem friendly enough, but they subtly avoid the freakish PC. Penalty to gather rumors, make contacts, obtain hirelings, etc.
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by Nox »

Thank you! That's helpful!
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by ewancummins »

Nox wrote:Thank you! That's helpful!
:D

I'm glad you find it so.

:D
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by Manofevil »

Might also be interesting if the character started as a member of a lizard race and was slowly changed to human(oid) by the Dark Powers.
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by Dark Angel »

Most normal locals would avoid the player (making signs of protection as they back away) and may avoid dealing with the other (known) party members as well. A 'quick' example of what powerful NPCs might do/order others to do would be the town guard being called upon to bring the PC to a cleric who might be inclined to recite prayers while large men cut off the offending arm before burning off the offending scales elsewhere on the body. The specifics depend on the religion involved and the domain therein. They could then be placed into an asylum for further observation and may ultimately be put down for fear of the 'monster' emerging again.

One question: How often and easily would this sigil be detected? The spell True Seeing is fairly consistently high level and hard to come across from the casual spell user hanging out by the city guards at the edge of the city they are visiting. There are not too many wizards or priests in Ravenloft casting spells to warrant this level of attention. Covering up the body parts may not be too much of an issue unless the city guard actively demand one reveal their faces to avoid monsters in their lands (not that unrealistic of a demand). Most NPCs would likely be exposed to Fear Checks as they see the scales and react accordingly (you could just say a certain number fail or assume they fail outright depending on the situation.
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by Nox »

Dark Angel wrote:Most normal locals would avoid the player (making signs of protection as they back away) and may avoid dealing with the other (known) party members as well. A 'quick' example of what powerful NPCs might do/order others to do would be the town guard being called upon to bring the PC to a cleric who might be inclined to recite prayers while large men cut off the offending arm before burning off the offending scales elsewhere on the body. The specifics depend on the religion involved and the domain therein. They could then be placed into an asylum for further observation and may ultimately be put down for fear of the 'monster' emerging again.

One question: How often and easily would this sigil be detected? The spell True Seeing is fairly consistently high level and hard to come across from the casual spell user hanging out by the city guards at the edge of the city they are visiting. There are not too many wizards or priests in Ravenloft casting spells to warrant this level of attention. Covering up the body parts may not be too much of an issue unless the city guard actively demand one reveal their faces to avoid monsters in their lands (not that unrealistic of a demand). Most NPCs would likely be exposed to Fear Checks as they see the scales and react accordingly (you could just say a certain number fail or assume they fail outright depending on the situation.
Hi, thank you.
I find your vision a bit harsh. It is realistic indeed, but I don't feel like cutting a character's arm straight away, since for most of my player being one armed would be the same as being dead... I could do it in response to their action if they try to be overly threatening or play Outlaw, or else in case they got caught, but in that case I would give them a chance to avoid the amputation in some way (in which thet may fail or succeed depending on dice and roleplay). For the burning part is plausible and would like the character with a huge scar but still able to use his arm.

The sigil is not easily spotted. There are some rituals and other magic stuff that would reveal it beside true vision, but is not a common thing.
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by Dark Angel »

Nox wrote:
Dark Angel wrote:Most normal locals would avoid the player (making signs of protection as they back away) and may avoid dealing with the other (known) party members as well. A 'quick' example of what powerful NPCs might do/order others to do would be the town guard being called upon to bring the PC to a cleric who might be inclined to recite prayers while large men cut off the offending arm before burning off the offending scales elsewhere on the body. The specifics depend on the religion involved and the domain therein. They could then be placed into an asylum for further observation and may ultimately be put down for fear of the 'monster' emerging again.

One question: How often and easily would this sigil be detected? The spell True Seeing is fairly consistently high level and hard to come across from the casual spell user hanging out by the city guards at the edge of the city they are visiting. There are not too many wizards or priests in Ravenloft casting spells to warrant this level of attention. Covering up the body parts may not be too much of an issue unless the city guard actively demand one reveal their faces to avoid monsters in their lands (not that unrealistic of a demand). Most NPCs would likely be exposed to Fear Checks as they see the scales and react accordingly (you could just say a certain number fail or assume they fail outright depending on the situation.
Hi, thank you.
I find your vision a bit harsh. It is realistic indeed, but I don't feel like cutting a character's arm straight away, since for most of my player being one armed would be the same as being dead... I could do it in response to their action if they try to be overly threatening or play Outlaw, or else in case they got caught, but in that case I would give them a chance to avoid the amputation in some way (in which thet may fail or succeed depending on dice and roleplay). For the burning part is plausible and would like the character with a huge scar but still able to use his arm.

The sigil is not easily spotted. There are some rituals and other magic stuff that would reveal it beside true vision, but is not a common thing.
Oh yeah, my ways are harsh and realistic, but you are correct that there would be time to get away from the authorities and teach them a lesson on what to expect from the locals in the next town (assuming their wanted status isn't traveling with them). If they keep missing the point where the PC needs to be more cautious (making more believable disguises, magic (though magic detection spells will be an automatic red flag), and using the others as a proxy to handle their business dealings in town, etc.), they will be pursued and eventually caught. If they have a history of getting away (especially if the players are killing others), they might have a kill on sight order. If they just get away, the eventual escapes might be stopped by an immediate chop with the axe on the offending limb.

Is this a condition that is spreading over the PCs body or is it a fixed location type thing? Is this a curse or some mongrelman in the PCs blood or something else?
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by Nox »

Dark Angel wrote:
Nox wrote:
Dark Angel wrote:Most normal locals would avoid the player (making signs of protection as they back away) and may avoid dealing with the other (known) party members as well. A 'quick' example of what powerful NPCs might do/order others to do would be the town guard being called upon to bring the PC to a cleric who might be inclined to recite prayers while large men cut off the offending arm before burning off the offending scales elsewhere on the body. The specifics depend on the religion involved and the domain therein. They could then be placed into an asylum for further observation and may ultimately be put down for fear of the 'monster' emerging again.

One question: How often and easily would this sigil be detected? The spell True Seeing is fairly consistently high level and hard to come across from the casual spell user hanging out by the city guards at the edge of the city they are visiting. There are not too many wizards or priests in Ravenloft casting spells to warrant this level of attention. Covering up the body parts may not be too much of an issue unless the city guard actively demand one reveal their faces to avoid monsters in their lands (not that unrealistic of a demand). Most NPCs would likely be exposed to Fear Checks as they see the scales and react accordingly (you could just say a certain number fail or assume they fail outright depending on the situation.
Hi, thank you.
I find your vision a bit harsh. It is realistic indeed, but I don't feel like cutting a character's arm straight away, since for most of my player being one armed would be the same as being dead... I could do it in response to their action if they try to be overly threatening or play Outlaw, or else in case they got caught, but in that case I would give them a chance to avoid the amputation in some way (in which thet may fail or succeed depending on dice and roleplay). For the burning part is plausible and would like the character with a huge scar but still able to use his arm.

The sigil is not easily spotted. There are some rituals and other magic stuff that would reveal it beside true vision, but is not a common thing.
Oh yeah, my ways are harsh and realistic, but you are correct that there would be time to get away from the authorities and teach them a lesson on what to expect from the locals in the next town (assuming their wanted status isn't traveling with them). If they keep missing the point where the PC needs to be more cautious (making more believable disguises, magic (though magic detection spells will be an automatic red flag), and using the others as a proxy to handle their business dealings in town, etc.), they will be pursued and eventually caught. If they have a history of getting away (especially if the players are killing others), they might have a kill on sight order. If they just get away, the eventual escapes might be stopped by an immediate chop with the axe on the offending limb.

Is this a condition that is spreading over the PCs body or is it a fixed location type thing? Is this a curse or some mongrelman in the PCs blood or something else?
It's a fixed location, not spreading. It's about corruption caused by accident during a ritual. The character touched an object that had being used by a powerful wizard to cast a dark ritual (he did not make any check beside i gave him many sinister warnings), and the side effect of the ritual was that anyone who touch directly that object would become corrupted (or tainted if you prefer) and would mutate (depending on a Save on Reflex. he succeded and the mutation was only partial).
Actually the wizard was disguised as a mentor of the PC and sent him there to see the object, knowing that he will be attracted by it. Also the character now have a mind affecting sigil on his neck (caused by the ritual above), but is only visible with truesight or similar meanings. The wizard can partially control the character by far away, by giving him some kind of instinctive attraction to objects or quests/missions/task, as if he - the PC - Really wants to reach that object, complete that quest or perform that task (obviously I, as DM, do my best to conceal the real nature of this attraction, by telling the player what he wants to hear so that he will follow exactly the road i planned. I make sure he will do what I want him to do and that he thinks he does it for his own choice. 'Till now it's working pretty well, he doesnt suspect anything. This will mind blow him later on, when he will realize the trap by connecting all the dots :diamabel: ), and the day in which They will meet the wizard, the character will be forced to obey him, and the rest of the party must manage to save him somehow (the only way to avoid the mind control is that someone - PC or NPC - sees the sigil, recognize it and then they can remove it during a side quest with a ritual - details still in development, but i'll make sure they will have a chance to see the sigil somehow).
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Re: Help! Strange/monstrous PC: handling npc reaction?

Post by Skyrock »

As you play a 3.5 game, you could just slap an Outsider Rating on the character and have others react one step less friendly (see the NPC attitude chart under the Diplomacy skill), so the average NPC reaction would be Unfriendly. Market tenders will not allow him to touch their wares to not spoil them, inn keepers will be mysteriously out of rooms when he wants to stay, kids will pelt him with rocks, guards will harass him and look for an excuse to be difficult, and locals will claim not know the way when he asks for directions. The sort of passive aggressiveness that isn’t an open attack, but is also making it clear that such freaks are not welcome here.

I generally encourage players to make characters who can pass as humans, or disguise themselves to make it through civilized society in the background while others do the talking.

If you just care about playing down that issue, you can just drop a Hat of Disguise into the next loot pile and use that to handwave the issue without changing the character or breaking the setting logic.
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