Unified Theory of Powers Checks

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steveflam
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Post by steveflam »

Archedius wrote:Simply beautiful! Great job on this- it may not be simpler but it makes sense. Yup, I'm using this from now on.
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Post by Nathan of the FoS »

The Giamarga wrote:Can you give another example with a Darklord/Mist Horror or Pocket Domain Lord?
Let's see...the Mist Horror the Telling Man begins as a murderer who delights in tormenting Innocents. This racks up Powers Checks pretty quickly, of course, but only in the Violence category. After failing two Powers Checks for murders, each subsequent murder counts as an Abomination (6), possibly rising to 7 if the victim's agony is prolonged. However, he targets Innocents by preference, giving a +1 to each murder. Let's say each murder is at 7. After failing two checks in the Violence category he gets a -3 to subsequent checks, putting each murder at the Enormity level (4), with an 8% chance of failure. After failing the third check, each murder on this plan is an Offence, with a 2% chance of failure. It will take a while, probably, but with determination and/or bad luck the Dark Powers will snaffle him for good. Because he doesn't meet the "diversity requirement" which would make him interesting or complex enough for a domain, he becomes a Mist Horror.

What Lemot Sediam Juste really likes is gaslighting people and getting them to turn on each other, but his heart's desire is to be known as the greatest playwright of the age. He murdered a rival and made a deal with dark powers for his gifts; but his principle means of getting ahead has been by undercutting other rivals, ruining reputations or arranging for their productions to fail. His various activities cause him to fail one check in Violence, one in Black Magic, and three in Betrayal.

Fed up with his troupe, who he blames for failing to carry out his scripts as they should, he determines to use the magic pen he got from his demonic tutor to write a tragedy in his fellow-actors' blood, using illusion and stage magic to really kill them. This is a murderous Betrayal of his closest friends (7), with the assistance of Black Magic (+1) and two powers checks from other categories (+2), set against his three previous Betrayals (-5). The total is 5--an Atrocity with a 16% chance of failure. He fails the check. 4 failed checks in one category is really hard to do and argues against a truly interesting and multi-dimensional villain, but he's been willing to deal with the devil and to get his own hands bloody; he gets a domain, but not a full, complex one, because his psychological bent to evil is largely limited to Betrayal.
Last edited by Nathan of the FoS on Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by NeoTiamat »

Funny how the Dopp book seems to be endlessly applicable these days. Maybe the Dark Powers have taken an interest. (What's the Power Check for co-writing an evil book?)

The system, while not particularly simple, is very elegant and easy to use. I particularly like how it means that for a character to progress, he generally needs to commit more varied (different categories) or particularly vile (to get past the increasing negatives) evils. No more Fourth-Stage for stealing silverware!

I'm going to be using this system from now on when I DM, it's so exquisitely elegant.

As a side note, I for one had no trouble with 'Character Assasination'. It's a bit more evolved then libel or slander, since it generally means completely ruining someones reputation, to the point where they might be publically shunned.

So much fun!
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Post by The Giamarga »

Thanks for the examples. They´re great and also further proof of the elegance of the system. One more minor nitpick, you numbered the power check severity in the example, i.e. Atrocity(6), but nowehere in the original posts. Are you planning on making an article or mini pdf of the system?

As for the term character assassination, if you say it is no problem for native english speakers go ahead. I had just never heard it before, but then I had to look up libel and slander (and calumny) in a dictionary too. So mea culpa.
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Post by cure »

Five drops of blood for you.

Would you mind walking through Vlad (canon version) and an ilithid for the sake of example? I would also be interested in Adam. Thanx.
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Post by BigBadQDaddy »

Would it be possible to add a section to "The Vault" with an alternate rules section and include articles like this to prevent them from getting lost in the shuffle and flow of time?
It would be a shame to lose ideas like this due to the continuing flow of the site.
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Post by NeoTiamat »

Seconded, this deserves to survive.

And the examples are very cool to read, so the more the merrier!
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Post by Nathan of the FoS »

Actually, I had intended to submit a version improved by your feedback to Quoth the Raven XIV...
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Post by Garudos Celestar »

Nathan of the FoS wrote: Strahd von Zarovich has lived a long and bloody life, in the course of which he has killed, studied necromancy, and consorted with fiends. He has, however, never told a lie nor betrayed his country or his cause. He has failed two Powers Checks for Violence and one for Black Magic.
I would like to make a point on this front about which a lot of people forget: only people already in Ravenloft (well, and Gothic Earth and some customized/home-brew worlds) make powers checks. People in other campaign settings do not.

Strahd von Zarovich never failed a powers check before becoming a darklord. He went straight from his prime world directly to DL status. In theory, prime material Barovia might have fallen into the aforementioned customized world category, but the emphasis in Roots of Evil that applying the rules of the demiplane to that particular prime was something unusual rebukes that theory.

Incidentally, the same issue applies to Tristan ApBlanc, Wilfred Godefroy, and many of the island/cluster domain lords (off the top of my head, Gregor Zolnik, Arijani, and Ankhtepot all went directly from the primes to their own personalized prisons - in the case of Zolnik, he came from Cerilia, which canonically does not apply powers checks to its citizens). Admittedly, Godefroy might be a special case, depending on his activities while Alchemist Strahd was keeping Mordent in limbo (a situation that may have given him time to fail a couple of checks).
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Post by Nathan of the FoS »

Garudos Celestar wrote:
Nathan of the FoS wrote: Strahd von Zarovich has lived a long and bloody life, in the course of which he has killed, studied necromancy, and consorted with fiends. He has, however, never told a lie nor betrayed his country or his cause. He has failed two Powers Checks for Violence and one for Black Magic.
I would like to make a point on this front about which a lot of people forget: only people already in Ravenloft (well, and Gothic Earth and some customized/home-brew worlds) make powers checks. People in other campaign settings do not.

Strahd von Zarovich never failed a powers check before becoming a darklord. He went straight from his prime world directly to DL status. In theory, prime material Barovia might have fallen into the aforementioned customized world category, but the emphasis in Roots of Evil that applying the rules of the demiplane to that particular prime was something unusual rebukes that theory.

Incidentally, the same issue applies to Tristan ApBlanc, Wilfred Godefroy, and many of the island/cluster domain lords (off the top of my head, Gregor Zolnik, Arijani, and Ankhtepot all went directly from the primes to their own personalized prisons - in the case of Zolnik, he came from Cerilia, which canonically does not apply powers checks to its citizens). Admittedly, Godefroy might be a special case, depending on his activities while Alchemist Strahd was keeping Mordent in limbo (a situation that may have given him time to fail a couple of checks).
Sure. These are just examples that have the advantage of being familiar to show how the mechanics are supposed to work.
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Post by WolfKook »

I like the system. A lot. However, I would also like the powers checks system to finally tap into the d20 mechanics, instead of relying on a pure percentile system (Call me a purist). The changes would not have to be so big. Just something like:

Base Powers Check Bonus + 1d20 vs. Powers Check DC

Severity.....................Powers check DC
1) Trespass...........................1
2) Offence.............................5
3) Sin...................................10
4) Enormity...........................15
5) Atrocity.............................20
6) Abomination......................25
7) Act of Ultimate Darkness....30

I would leave the other adjustments (Those for Violence, Blasphemy, etc.) as Nathan put them.

The problem is... What to use as "Base Powers Check Bonus"?

The Taint System in HoH uses either Con or Wis, but I really don't know.

Now, what do you think?

OTOH. Nathan, could you please include a criterium for Fiendish Transposition?
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Post by cure »

WolfKook wrote: The problem is... What to use as "Base Powers Check Bonus"?

The Taint System in HoH uses either Con or Wis, but I really don't know.
Wisdom would seem more appropriate.
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Post by lostboy »

WolfKook wrote:

The problem is... What to use as "Base Powers Check Bonus"?

The Taint System in HoH uses either Con or Wis, but I really don't know.


Wisdom would seem more appropriate.
Problem with assigning a specific attribute as a base powers check bonus is that it penalises some classes over another. I.E Clerics usually have high WIS, whereas fighters may not. This automaticaly puts certain players at a disadvantge. However I suppose the alternative is to develop a new arbitary stat which is another number to write down and keep track of. Perhaps a combination of stats may be the way forward?
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Post by Rotipher of the FoS »

The trouble with basing Powers checks on a d20 roll is that it's neither a "special attack" by the DPs against the check-roller, nor something that experience levels should make someone resistant to. If anything, high-level villains are more likely to become major darklords, if we're judging by canon examples. Traditionally, Powers checks are a way of determining if the Dark Powers notice the offender's misdeed; if anything, it's more like a Spot check on the DPs' part than a saving throw on the offender's.
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Post by Nathan of the FoS »

WolfKook wrote:I like the system. A lot. However, I would also like the powers checks system to finally tap into the d20 mechanics, instead of relying on a pure percentile system (Call me a purist). The changes would not have to be so big. Just something like:

Base Powers Check Bonus + 1d20 vs. Powers Check DC

Severity.....................Powers check DC
1) Trespass...........................1
2) Offence.............................5
3) Sin...................................10
4) Enormity...........................15
5) Atrocity.............................20
6) Abomination......................25
7) Act of Ultimate Darkness....30

I would leave the other adjustments (Those for Violence, Blasphemy, etc.) as Nathan put them.

The problem is... What to use as "Base Powers Check Bonus"?

The Taint System in HoH uses either Con or Wis, but I really don't know.

Now, what do you think?

OTOH. Nathan, could you please include a criterium for Fiendish Transposition?
I don't much like the d20 system for this particular purpose because it goes in 5% steps; obviously, that's a) not as fine-tuneable as a d100 system and b) not well adapted to the "double at each step" plan given above. Both are dispensable, of course; it's not like they're major elements of the flavor or anything. But you lose a lot of flexibility with only 20 increments, instead of 100. And heck, I kinda like having powers checks on a different mechanic.

Anyway. Setting aside those considerations, let's make a simple d20 roll the Powers Check. DC 21 and above is Automatic Failure--AoUD, baby!

So, let's go wit the following: Eliminate Trespasses, since the minimum powers check possible is a 5% chance. Then let's do
1 Offence: DC 2
2 Sin:DC 3
3 Enormity: DC 5
4 Atrocity: DC 8
5 Abominiation: DC 13
6 Act of Ulimate Darkness: DC 21 (Hooray Fibonacci!)

This makes it MUCH, MUCH EASIER to fail powers checks, but *shrug* them's the breaks. The fact that there are only six steps will make it easier to shift out of powers check territory with the given modifiers, so it probably balances itself somewhat. Now, just apply the given modifers as before to get your "powers check number", then roll the save at the appropriate level.

So: the Midnight Slasher has failed two powers checks for Violence. She goes on a killing spree (AoUD, so that's a 6 on the Power Check Chart). She doesn't know the victims, so that's a -2 on the Power Check Number (-2 for neutral/stranger victims); she has a -3 from two previous powers checks in the category; so she's down to an Offence, DC 2. She rolls the d20; on a 1 she falls further into darkness, on a 2 or higher she walks.

Again, I like percentile dice for this, but whatever works.
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