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Reviews for 4e products 
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Evil Genius
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Post Reviews for 4e products
With Dragon and Dungeon magazines celebrating Ravenloft Month this month, I finally was motivated to fill out the Drawing Room page with all the 4e-era products. But none of them have any reviews. Let's get on it!

Post your thoughts on anything you've read or used here in this thread, and eventually I'll compile them into the product pages.

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:08 pm
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
Review #1 - Dragon #368 - Sunderheart

Let me begin by saying I don’t play the 4th edition of D&D, so I am not going to comment on any of the nuts and bolts, merely the fluff of the domain, and compare it accordingly to the existing domains.

Well the first down point is found in the very second paragraph , which states that the PC’s primary goal to escape. Gone are the last two versions attempt to make Ravenloft into a true campaign setting, instead it has been made once more into a weekend in hell. Also upon checking other sources the domain ties directly into new 4e background of the creation of the Tiefling Race. For those, who have not really followed 4e, Tieflings are now decedents of nobles of the empire of Bael Turath who through deals with devils instantly became Tieflings, rather than the previous versions where they were decedents of humans with a touch of fiend in their ancestry, so it comes off as an attempt to shoe-horn new information at people with out really telling people where it comes from. But I digress and move on with the review.

So we start with the history of the domain, which comes off as a very weak version of Romeo and Juliet, but without the overall depth. The darklords as described are unrepentantly evil from the get go and have no real tragic feel to them, and the land that they originate from (the empire of Bael Turath) is much the same. Compounding this ham handed “every thing is evil” feel is a very weak demon deal thread, with no explanation as to why the Emperor would turn to two social dilatants instead of a mage for help summoning a devil for his deal and why they would need a deal to extend their lives since that was part of the original deal that the nobles of the empire of Bael Turath made to become Tieflings. In addition from what I read that deal took their souls, so they have nothing to offer in the first place for a further deal so why bother.

It then describe the none-Shadowfell realm and then the Shadowfell realm, both of which come off as very high fantasy, which don’t fit well with the low fantasy settings of the rest of Ravenloft. Tieflings seem to run rampant over the domain and they are all deformed versions of the race, but there does seem to be too many for just the noble caste. Coupled with the undead that exist in numbers that rival Necropolis, and rather openly exist in one half of the city, it just seems implausible.

Finally we get to the bizarre darklords which are fused to each other, now Ivania is described as waking up in the domain with Vorno fused to her back, and spends a good few moments before realising he is there. I don’t know about you but if I woke up with a full grown person attached to my back acting as a dead weight I would not need to run to a mirrored room to find out. And the overall description of the dark lords is lacking, they really have the depth of detail that I would expect to find in any setting other than Ravenloft.

Rating: 1 Blood Drop out of 5

Overall, the domain is weak and ill thought out, to use it in a game I would recommend a complete overhaul:
1st replace the Tieflings with Calibans or humans.
2nd reduce the undead to a more vague threat, i.e. generally believed to be in the Tomb City by the population and some are but nowhere near numbers indicated in the article and they rarely leave it at night despite the popular belief.
3rd have the fusing of the darklord be a bit less obvious perhaps a vestigial face on the back of which ever one is awake at the time, ripping forth when they wake and forcing the other into them in a dormant state.
4th establish a domain border closure for the lords, or given their duel nature an inability to close the border.
And these are just off the top of my head.

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Last edited by brothersale on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:14 am
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
Review #2 - Dragon #375 - Graefmotte

Now unlike Sunderheart, the history of Graefmotte seem more thought out and less forced, however danger signs appear at the final stage when Lord Durven Graef becomes the darklord. Put simply he just doesn’t seem to deserve it, I mean yes he is a traitor but one through inaction and refusing the call to arms, and yes he does kill his son, but he does it by a single moment of blind rage in a accident. I’ve seen fan domains get shot to pieces for similar attempts, it just doesn’t hold water, especially when he shows genuine remorse and literally tries to kill himself in combat the next night, it just seems wrong.

The next section after the history and the darklord, relates to the fate of Lord Graef’s son; the Ghost of Graefmotte, which seems to have a bit of a flaw in it, that every one knows who he is and that his father murdered him, I mean its hardly something Lord Graef would advertise especially after he hid the deed from his people.

Next is the monsters that inhabit the land, which include undead Gnolls, cannibals and the undead fragments of a innocent soul, these I will get to later, instead pressing on to the domain itself. Now the domain itself lacks a map so it means that we only have the description to go off and the picture at the beginning. So we are told that it is a pine wood valley locked on at least three sides by a mountain range called the Gloomcrag (horrible name for a mountain range, in any sensible culture, I mean why not just call it something benign instead and surprise people with its dangers instead.). The forest itself is described as something dark and oppressive with lots of little hints as to what show PC, i.e. bone piles and bones dangling from tree etc.

The description of the actual town is nicely done, but a few flaws spoil it such as the arbitrary decision that Lord Graef is suddenly a despot, no where before this is it indicated, but suddenly he is, why? I can only conclude because he is the darklord. Other flaws are somehow impractical idea that the villagers would not hunt more in the forest, farm or have vegetable gardens and some live stock that they breed from, even Paridon with more people, has managed to survive in such a fashion for longer than this single village without resorting to cannibalism, so the build up of starving people, cannibals and ghouls is really silly and does not real fit with the darklord, I mean I would expect more extreme violent outbursts or acts of indifference in the face of trouble from the population to match the sins of the darklord rather than starvation and cannibalism.

Rating: 2 Blood Drops out of 5
Overall a slight improvement on the Sunderheart, but several flaws really let it down, and mean that it needs work before using it:
1st lose the starvation theme, it doesn’t fit
2nd make the Gnolls just plain Gnolls rather than undead, there is simply no need for them to be undead, just survivors of the attack instead. Also lose the Griefmotes they are a good idea but there is no reason for them to be linked to this domain at all based on their description.
3rd the Darklord needs a little rework to truly justify his damnation, perhaps making him more authoritarian and over-protective of his youngest son, much like Azalin to Irik. And his murder of his son needs to be more hidden rather than the entire village knowing. Perhaps it would be better if they think he is locked in the room still on orders of Lord Graef or escaped and was killed in the forest anything but that he was killed by Lord Graef. I mean Lord Graef was alone during the act of murder and the room seal after the event. The first any of them would know would be after the domain was formed and his son’s body at that point was gone from the room by then, taken by the Mists, so they would have no reason to think murder.

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Last edited by brothersale on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
Review #3 - Dragon #378 - Monadhan
Ok another domain that has its origin point in newly written 4e material, that of the Dragonborn and their Empire of Arkhosta, so be forewarn for those that have not followed the 4e it does contain hints of that background, but not as heavily what Sunderheart did.

So first we have the history of the domain and the darklord, Arantor, drum-roll please, a Silver Dragolich. Now this surprisingly is not a bad thing, as his background is well thought out and he himself has relatively little interest or impact on the domain apart from the occasion rage based attack on the only settlement of the domain.

Now the domain itself is well thought-out with the personalities of the inhabitants meshing with the darklord to a tee, this coupled with the map and indicated areas really fills the domain out as both are well detailed and informative to DMs wanting to run a game in this domain.

Only a couple of flaws stop this domain from being perfect (and it does seem like the editors are finally their feet with domains of dread and not making a complete hash of it.) The first is that all the inhabitants are non-native traitors from other worlds . Now I have no problems with some of the inhabitants being from other worlds but at some point they would start to put down roots and start families becoming true inhabitants and natives. And the second is that Kas the Betrayer uses this land as a base of operations. This just sticks in my craw due to the fact that Kas has been a darklord and evidence supports the fact that if a former darklord enters the mists or a domain with no lord then they are re-snared and become a darklord once more, its why Duke Gundar and Nathan Timothy have not left the Core, they can feel the pull, and don’t want to be trapped again.

4.5 blood drops out of 5

Overall a vast improvement on the other domains only the two little flaws mentioned stop it from getting top marks and they are easy fixes.

PS is any one else going to weigh in on these reviews as I am only going to cover a few more and it would be better if someone more familiar with the 4e offered their two-cents as well

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Last edited by brothersale on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:15 am
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
Seriously, I didn't even read that domain in 378...

And I kinda liked Graefmote. Not all gnolls are undead BTW but I agree that they don't have to be. The Starvation IMO feels just right. As for the guy's darklord status... he killed his son, I think that's enough. However, I would agree that there's no need for everyone to know. Very few may know/suspect. Others should as you said well know what happened.

Also, the domain needs to be... larger.

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Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:31 am
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
alhoon wrote:
The Starvation IMO feels just right.


Why I mean it is horrific but it makes no sense when the larger domain of Paridon, hadn't resorted to it. It just doesn't do it for me, and it does not fit the darklord's personality or sins. I mean it is in a temperate pine forest valley, not one that is covered in piles of snow all year round (Vorostokov) or a blasted wasteland bereft of life (Bluetspur), but a normal pine forest valley, one that would have countless small animals, deer, birds and the like. A small village especially one has existed in the same general surroundings would have no trouble living a hunt based subsistence lifestyle, and as their are active human villages in Verbrek, the dangers in the wood would not be too much of problem to overcome in the face of possible starvation.

alhoon wrote:
Also, the domain needs to be... larger.


I agree and with no map the valley could be any size, but bare in mind the larger the size, the less sense that every one is out of food makes, as there would be more resources.

That said on with the next review:

Review #4 - Dragon #402 - Kas & Vecna

Well compared to my past reviews this is just a short one as the information is not really new merely a collection and slight enhancement of all the previous information on Kas and Vecna, it is an interesting read for those not familiar with their history but not exactly mindblowing or new.

3 drops of blood out of 5
Good for a quick read and it covers all the past history in a quick and easy fashion, but nothing more.

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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
Review #5 - Dungeon #174 - The Endless Road

The further evolution of the Headless Horseman, and one that I whole heartedly approve of. In one fell swoop it moves the Headless Horseman from the status of one shot combat device into something that DMs can actually get their teeth into. It does so by exploiting the full story that the Horseman comes from, adding a detailed background beyond a vague someone cut his head off. Now the Horseman is removed as the darklord, and I fairness I can understand why as he is ill-suited for anything non-combat, and with his new background his is now the angry wronged spirit, a victim of the true darklord Eli van Hassen (a small nod to the Van Tassels and the Hessian of the original story.) manipulations.

The domain is now a reflection of Eli van Hassen’s desire for power, and the dark powers way of granting it with one hand, while taking it away with the other. His hunger for a large population to rule is thwarted by the sheer nature of the realm, while giving him almost complete authority of those who he grants sanctuary in his manor. In addition the realm (providing you continue to use it as a pocket domain) provides a novel and effective interlude to move PCs from one domain to another without them realising it until its too late (one less mist encounter that everyone hates or tries to avoid)

The article also has several examples of features to throw at the PCs while they travel the road, and skilled DMs can literally make each visit to the domain unique and entertaining.

5 Blood drops out of 5
I really liked this domain, it is easily the best of the domains I have looked at so far in my reviews and adds so much to a very under used pocket domain, improving it so well its hard to find any faults at all.
Kudos go to Ari for another brilliant addition to Ravenloft.

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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
Review #6 - Dungeon #190 - Kalidnay

Kalidnay, one of the most under used domains of Ravenloft and with good reason as it is heavily tied into the setting of Dark Sun, a very alien setting to the other domains of Ravenloft.

Now the article groups together information from both several Ravenloft and several Dark Sun products providing them in one complete form. The article also shift the location of the Domain of Kalidnay into a very Dark Sun only environment; The Grey. Now for those that don’t know, the Dark Sun setting is completely cut off from the other campaign settings with only two links to them, the Astral plane and the Ethereal Plane (which they refer to as the Grey). Now in the old setting planar form the Demiplane of dread was also in the ethereal plane hence the link, but now it is in the Shadowfell, and if I had to guess under the new 4e format the Grey is probably the same place (anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong about this, my knowledge of 4e is a bit limited)

The article itself well done laying out both the real Kalidnay and the domain version, as well as the important people and some powerful artefacts. Now all of these as stated have appeared in other products but some are quite hard to get hold of now as all of them are 2e and I am sure that some people will find that information is easier to read now that it is in one place instead of several.

3 blood drops out of 5
Good read and it covers all the bases but it does not really add any new information to the mix

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Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:37 pm
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
Review #7 - Dragon #416 - Strahd & Van Richten, The Life of Soth

Now let me state that I am only going to cover two of the articles in this dragon rather than the whole thing as the third Ravenloft article is more game mechanics than fluff. Now on with the review.

Strahd and Van Richten
Now this starts with the history of Strahd, and while it is good, it lacks details. Those interested in a better and more in depth version of his background would be better advised to read the novel: I, Strahd. However the Van Richten side of the article while informative of his early history, it falls down spectacularly at the end by omitting the most important detail of his history, the fact that he died, instead it tries to make seem like he is still alive and kicking. Shame, but not an unexpected attempt to make him someone that the players could meet, but they could have given his full history and then allowed the DMs to decide how they want to deal with it, really calling the article a history check and then missing the fact that he died is a bit like ripping out the last few pages of a mystery novel because you don’t want it to end.

2 blood drops out of 5

The Life of Soth
Ah Soth one of the biggest bones of contention between Ravenloft and Dragonlance fans, and I am no exception to it, however I do suspect it had more to do with the fact that both wanted to use the character rather than because of anything Weis and Hickman had to say. I fact I suspect that the Dragonlance fans were equally miffed when they got him back just for Weis and Hickman to kill him in the most pointless fashion possible. (oh the hell with it Rant on. Seriously how Weis and Hickman can justify killing the character that they barely used to full effect because other people used it better than they did is beyond me. Don’t believe me, just check the books as to what role Soth played in Dragonlance. For the most part he plays the ominous danger behind Kitiara to make her seem more dangerous and evil than she was. He rare does anything, but he has such a great and tragic background that it was not surprising that he just overwhelms her character, she is just a rather bland character compared to him, but she was one of the starting characters so she take centre stage. And after she is gone he does nothing according to Weis and Hickman, come on, at least in Ravenloft some one used him to full effect and I think they would have been equally angered if someone had used him to full effect in Dragonlance because they just didn’t want him used in any way but theirs i.e. the big bad henchman to what ever weak assed villain they wanted propping up. Rant over)

Ok so the article itself starts off with the long and detailed background of the character, before it enters the first two Dragonlance trilogies. Finally we get to the Ravenloft section, a single grey box section, for the time when he was used the most! And then the final section his death (or more correctly Weis and Hickman say we killed him so you can’t have him)

This is followed by a quick set of stats for both versions Dragonlance and Ravenloft

2 drops of Blood out of 5
Its basically just a rehash of his background and heavily tilted to the Dragonlance side rather than the Ravenloft despite it being for a Ravenloft issue.

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Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:42 pm
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
brothersale wrote:
Those interested in a better and more in depth version of his background would be better advised to read the novel: I, Strahd.


I've got I, Strahd sitting on a shelf behind me right now. And to me, the details in that book doesn't even line up with the limited facts from the original Ravenloft adventure. The history of Strahd's love and brother are different between the two. Since I read and ran the adventure, long before I read the book, I consider the adventure true. So I, Strahd, IMO opinion doesn't better serve as background material, since it's off from the original 'facts'.

I'm not criticizing this review, since I haven't even looked at Dragon, since it's no longer published in magazine form - I don't even consider it 'Dragon', any more than the title WotC uses for this kind of digital content (not being a 4e advocate.)


Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:07 am
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
Review #8 - Dungeon #207 - Timbergorge & Fair Barovia
Ok only one more to go after this one so here we go.

Timbergorge
Another domain that is tied into the 4e material, in this case the Feywild plane, the history of the domain is not vast as it is wilderness that had no real inhabitants until just before it became a domain. But premise behind the domain, that of ignorance and rage does seem sound as well as giving it the extra nudge that it did not get chosen by the dark powers but rather dumped in the Shadowfell by Aurusel rather than allowed to return to the Feywild.

Now this is slow dying domain, as the darklord keeps the border up while he hunts for the humans that hurt him and burnt his forest and sensibly as a result life is dying. However a major flaws appears with the Metsuri Clan, originally the human hunters that burnt the forest they are now curse werewolves. Now in Ravenloft this should mean that they have only two forms not three, it also means that they have no control over their alternate form, however from the information in the article this is not the case.

The domain itself is well thought-out and labelled thanks to the nice map and suitable plot hooks are present. I just find the domain lacking overall, nothing I can put my finger on, it just doesn’t really leap out me or make me want to use it.

3 drops of blood out of 5

On the whole the domain is good, but a couple of quick changes would improve it.
1st place some time length on the time the border can remain up without dropping. It just make the domain more accessible, for outsides especially if you link the border going up automatically to the Metsuri Clan go near it or prevent the Metsuri Clan from ever leaving much like Mordenheim in Lamordia.
2nd make the Metsuri Clan true werewolves before they became stuck in the domain, I think it would add a whole new level to their motives behind the fire.

Fair Barovia
While I do like the attempt to cover Barovia, it just does not really do it well. Off the top of my head I noticed timeline errors (the events of I16 occur in 528BC, and we are told Ireena Kolyanna has not yet been found, so the creation of the domains of Blue spur [581BC], G’henna [702BC] and Markovia [698BC] have not occurred), as well as alterations that would have the xenophobic and superstitious population lighting up their torches to burn the evil fey creatures and the stunted little baby thieves that dare live near their villages. Also there are changes to general description of the Vallaki even if one ignores the timeline errors, for example the divide between upper and lower town is gone and the old fortress, home of the burgomaster is gone. Instead we have a Thaani neighbourhood for no real reason (I can only assume that this version of Barovia has shrunk and Immol has disappeared.) and a church that has the laughable name of St. Andral. Andral is the name of the god worshipped in Barovia so why would a church dedicated to the Morninglord, a faith that has not been around for very long and in Vallaki only from 499BC name its church that, let alone have at least 4 saints in 30 years or so.

2 drops of Blood out of 5
Overall disappointing, the lack of consistency with previous products just plain spoils it, even the idea behind the adventure is not a new one, first appearing the Ravenloft Gaz I. Personally I think people will, myself included nick the bits we like and chuck the rest.

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Last edited by brothersale on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:53 pm
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
Review #9 - Domain of Dread - Histhaven

Ah Histhaven, where do I start, well it is just plain bad. The history of the domain is good up to a point if Old Count Histaven was suppose to be the darklord, but instead we are slowly given more information on his son Artius. Now he does seem like he could be a good fit for a darklord, but instead we are introduced to the Rag Man the avenging swordsman who attempts to over throw the Old Count (that is his entire background) and he becomes the darklord. (And other than the fact that Artius is in charge in the Domain, we are not even told the Old Count is died until his ghost appears in the Rag Man's grove.)

The domain itself more of a quick dash covering the basics, but no more detail beyond than that. Finally it ends with the Rag Man (one of the worst darklords ever) where you are told one of the most ill thought out lines ever, according to the book in interacting with the Rag Man peacefully he can recounts his history, seriously what history? he has none his entire history is a line in the text.

0 drops of blood out of 5
The product is just plain bad, any attempt to breath life into this thing, would require so many rewrites as to make the original only useful for the map it contains. It is fortunate that it was a free give away because if it was not and people had to pay for it, heads would roll.

Ok that’s it for the ones I’m going to review some one else will have to the others.

PS
Gonzoron,
You have missed something off the review page, The Mark of Nerath by Bill Slavicsek, its mentioned on the Mistipedia as having started in the Shadowfell domain of Darani

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Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:24 pm
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
brothersale wrote:
You have missed something off the review page, The Mark of Nerath by Bill Slavicsek, its mentioned on the Mistipedia as having started in the Shadowfell domain of Darani
I've been trying to forget it. :P ;)

Yeah, I suppose I should find a spot for it.

Here's my review:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7679

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Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:57 pm
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
Having read your review I can see why? I have a similar feeling to Histhaven, but you are more generous than me I can't even justify 1/2 blood drop for that domain.

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Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:28 pm
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Post Re: Reviews for 4e products
I finally read all of the domains you reviewed except for Histhaven. First I got to say that I don't know jack about 4E and the stats so i wont coment on them except that i saw one darklord had like 800 hit points. Good God i hope that is a typo. I really tried to be fair, I really did but they were terrible even the headless horseman domain. Armies of gnolls, dark giants, Kas, werewolves fighting a tree. Escape is the purpose but you have to know the history. Look I have no idea what Shadowfell is but I know Ravenloft and this Shadowfell seems like a souless, poorly writen, bad imitation of Ravenloft. No gothic flavor, no tortured souls, just evil for evils sake. I am actually sorry I read the articles. Better i remain ignorant.


Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:29 am
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