Using Nidala and Bonemaw

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Using Nidala and Bonemaw

Post by divinedragonslayer »

I'm thinking of using a campaign set in Nidala. In it a young boy has his family killed by zealous priests of Belenus. Granted this is before Elana Faithhold's fall. Perhaps along the lines of 620-630. I want to do some tweaking but I want him sealed for quite a while. Of course I want my players coming off with a sense of satisfaction that there's some sort of acceptable end. In this case I think the ending will have the licbeing released by death. But I also want the players to have a lingering sense of a greater evil on the loose

That being said I wanted to get an idea of Elana's personality.

First: While I see her being a theocratic despot I see her as being deluded by her quest for good I almost think she'd set up social programs for those who need it. Now whether these programs are actually good or not is up for debate. Especially for orphans that are practically indoctrinated. I almost see mandatory donations to help feed the poor and heal the sick.

Second: I see about 30 to 40 percent of her clerics actually being neutral good or lawful good. I see the rest of the clerics being lawful neutral or lawful evil like Elana herself. My thinking behind this is that the worship of Belenus has actually been distorted. Though to be honest I think that Lawful Evil clerics would still channel positive energy.


On Banemaw: I have two theories on Banemaw. Either my lich has created him by either obsession thus qualifying as a construct or he's created him through pseudo necromancy and using elemental powers to build the beast. My other idea for Banemaw is that Banemaw is a manifestation of the pain and misery she's inflicted on innocent people since her rise as the darklord. I'd like some ideas on how to pull him off mechanically.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

Post by High Priest Mikhal »

divinedragonslayer wrote:On Banemaw: I have two theories on Banemaw. Either my lich has created him by either obsession thus qualifying as a construct or he's created him through pseudo necromancy and using elemental powers to build the beast. My other idea for Banemaw is that Banemaw is a manifestation of the pain and misery she's inflicted on innocent people since her rise as the darklord. I'd like some ideas on how to pull him off mechanically.
Probably the easiest way is to make Banemaw, as a manifestation of Elena's cruelty, a Mists creature. Mechanically the same as a red dragon (probably a wyrm or great wyrm) but if killed he simply dissipates into Mist. Not so much a mechanical effect but since Banemaw doesn't really exist--he's a lie made up by Elena to hide her own slaughter--he should act as a reminder of her fall from grace, calmly telling her she's no true paladin and is as evil as he.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

Post by divinedragonslayer »

That's probably true on Banemaw, but I'd say he's much more devious and probably dangerous than just reminding her of fall. Though I do wish to ask if Elana knows she's fallen or not. It's an odd question, but it will affect how I play both Banemaw and the general state of Nidala.




PS

I do like the idea of the mists tormenting the clerics of Belenus. In fact a dread possibility for Nidala itself is The Breath of the Innocent. So much misery of Nidala comes from the suffering of innocent people at the hands of people they trusted and thought were good their misery coalesces into a sharp cold wind that haunts certain sites of mass misery or death such as dungeons. These winds which hold the chill of the grave which seems to cut through the skin. But the cold is the least of the worries with the Breath of the Innocent. The absolute worst part of it is the fact that a thousand whispers seem to assault a person's sanity. These whispers seem to haunt the righteous who enter there.

Mechanically: The Breath of the Innocent is like a sinkhole of evil as it is the coalesced emotions rather than an intelligent entity. More appropriately it is composed of fractured souls. For those that can see into the near ethereal the Breath of the Innocent looks like an indistinct black humanoid figure covered in mouths which constantly speak. The figure doesn't move. The manifestation born of sorrow, fear, and pain is actually unable to take action or manifest in the real world save for divine casters who can hear their pleas for answers their words of pain, or other whispers. Evil divine casters are unaffected by the words. Neutral casters suffer -4 concentration checks and a -2 wisdom check in a room containing a Breath of the Innocent while good divine casters a -6 on concentration checks and a -4 on wisdom checks. Any non-evil caster staying in a room with a Breath of the Innocent must make a DC 8 madness check or suffer an obsession. This obsession is to save every innocent they come across from danger even at the loss of of the divine caster's life. Good characters suffer a -2 penalty to the save until 100 innocent or apparently innocent people are saved.

Breaths of the Innocents are not sinkholes of evil b Brut power fairly active of sinkholes of evil which contain the taints agony, fear, and despair. These sinkholes grow to rank 3 or larger in the presence of the divine casters. These sinkholes of evil never fade due to the constant active energies of the Breath of the Innocent.

To dispel a Breath of the Innocent first the bodies must be laid to rest properly. Barring that there has to be a ceremony where the be component personalities of the Breath of the Innocent is laid to rest. This can be done by burying an instrument of their death or suffering followed by ceremonial sealing of the 'grave'. Then the area must be bathed in incense bathed in holy water. During this time the cries of the Innocent are suppressed. For three days a stick must be burnt while prayers are given to guide the component souls onto the afterlife. After this the Breath of the Innocent is dispersed. If at anytime someone innocent dies the Breath of the Innocent can once more reform.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

Post by High Priest Mikhal »

As per the Ravenloft DMG, no, Elena does not know she's fallen. Her curse is to be haunted by doubts about her righteousness, hence why I added Banemaw taunting Elena. It's a lie to keep a populace in line, especially when the slaughter "he" causes in the remote area away from Faith Hold is really her and her followers committing mass murder to maintain the deception. Were the truth to get out it would mean the end of her power--and likely her sanity. A dragon, real or borne of the Mists, going on rampages would justify her moralistic tyranny. Far worse is one that tells the Nidalans the truth about their Knight-Protector and "Banemaw."
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

divinedragonslayer wrote:I'm thinking of using a campaign set in Nidala. In it a young boy has his family killed by zealous priests of Belenus. Granted this is before Elana Faithhold's fall. Perhaps along the lines of 620-630. I want to do some tweaking but I want him sealed for quite a while. Of course I want my players coming off with a sense of satisfaction that there's some sort of acceptable end. In this case I think the ending will have the licbeing released by death. But I also want the players to have a lingering sense of a greater evil on the loose
I'm confused. Did you leave out a step or two? Did the boy become the lich? why and how?
First: While I see her being a theocratic despot I see her as being deluded by her quest for good I almost think she'd set up social programs for those who need it. Now whether these programs are actually good or not is up for debate. Especially for orphans that are practically indoctrinated. I almost see mandatory donations to help feed the poor and heal the sick.
Elena is one of my all time favorites. I've used her extensively in my campaign, though mostly indirectly.
She's certainly deluded into believing she's doing good. In my head, I have trouble seeing her getting involved in social issues. I feel like she'd delegate that to her church, which in my version has a large hierarchy. To me, she seems too restless, too driven, to stop and think long enough to implement such a thing on her own. But she'd probably be all for it if someone else took care of it. But if you see her differently, she could be more directly involved. It would certainly give her something to do to fill the days. She can't be hunting heretics all the time, I suppose.
Second: I see about 30 to 40 percent of her clerics actually being neutral good or lawful good. I see the rest of the clerics being lawful neutral or lawful evil like Elana herself. My thinking behind this is that the worship of Belenus has actually been distorted. Though to be honest I think that Lawful Evil clerics would still channel positive energy.
Well, if you go by Ryan Naylor's recently released Pathfinder conversion for Ravenloft, that's perfectly legal. Makes sense, since it would be an indicator of moral alignment in Ravenloft, which is typically a no-no. I agree that the vast majority of her church just accepts her corrupted doctrine as fact and tries their best to execute in a good manner befitting their good god. But they would be prone to crises of faith when their desire to do good in Belenus's name runs up against Elena's overzelous policies.
On Banemaw: I have two theories on Banemaw. Either my lich has created him by either obsession thus qualifying as a construct or he's created him through pseudo necromancy and using elemental powers to build the beast. My other idea for Banemaw is that Banemaw is a manifestation of the pain and misery she's inflicted on innocent people since her rise as the darklord. I'd like some ideas on how to pull him off mechanically.
Well, I tend to agree with Mikhal that Banemaw should stay fictional. That's the big draw that makes "him" special, IMHO. see my thoughts here:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/forum/vi ... f=1&t=4858
If you do want to make a real Banemaw, there are many suggestions of how to do so in the Shadowlands Domain of the Month adventure hook bank:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/TheVault ... lands.html

Have you seen Theokos and Red Wolf and the Pack from the Books of S___? They are great additions to the domain, both of which I consider near-canonical, and I used them in my campaign there. Also, check out Mangrum's concept for the cluster as a whole:
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/TheP ... ealms.html
(Phantasmal Forest sidebar)
I really like the idea that Ebonbane is the true evil that Elena could be fighting if she ever got a clue.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

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I shouldn't say young, but the reason he became a lich was to exact his revenge on the clerics of Belenus. I need to do a bit of rewriting but what I'm thinking is that his family is put to death for being corrupted by evil because his sister develops as a sorcerer. At the end of his natural life he turned to lichhood to continue to terrorize the cierlics. He was eventually temporarily sealed before being unsealed by unwitting adventurers. I have a write up I'm going to work on soon.

I'm not going to use Elana directly most likely as she's too busy for the most part, but was wondering about that. I see her indirectly handling social programs. Though with a decidedly despot spin on it in the forced donation of a tithe that is used to help the homeless and the infirm.

You're right it's probably easier not using Banemaw as a real dragon, but I don't think Elana herself made up the dragon. That being said either it's a of thieves using Banemaw's presence or it's Ebonfire's ilk reeking havoc on the local population to further the fiend's own schemes.

By the by I don't have access to the Book of S___ which is a pity because I'd really like the idea of Ebonbane being the real evil in the region. But I almost see the dark powers frustrating Ebonbane at every turn they can.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

divinedragonslayer wrote:By the by I don't have access to the Book of S___
yes, you do! :)
http://www.kargatane.com/
(they are all free downloads)
Theokos is in the Book of Sorrows
Red Wolf and his pack are in the Book of Shadows
and the framing fiction and interlude fiction of the Book of Shadows is highly, HIGHLY recommended for anyone using the Shadowlands.
which is a pity because I'd really like the idea of Ebonbane being the real evil in the region. But I almost see the dark powers frustrating Ebonbane at every turn they can.
Those bits are hinted at in the BoShadows framing/interlude fiction, but Mangrum never got the chance to revisit it in the actual books. He revealed some of his plans in that link above (the Secrets of the Dread Realms author notes) and some more here on the forum, which were eventually archived in that Domain of the Month adventure hook bank link above.

It's a tantalizing glimpse of what could have been, but I've used it to shape my ideas about Ebonbane/Nidala.

(BTW, if you're at all interested in what I've done with the place, you can check out my campaign journals at themistway.com (Nidala features in sessions 18-22, and Elena (indirectly) in Session 3))
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

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*rubs hands evilly* Thank you for the links. I really like reading anything I can on Ravenloft. While I don't normally find the fan made material suiting my tastes I love the different ideas people come up with here. I'm reading your campaign notes as we speak and I'll probably add those people.

At the moment I feel the most pressing goal is to find a balance between using the lich and using Ebonbane's minions. While I feel the lich and to a lesser extent Elana's corrupted servants I don't want to lose the creeping evil in this campaign either. Right now I have a lot of reading and planning to do.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

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Sorry for the double post and the fact that this is probably thread necromancy, but I have another related question. Though I have a related question. How would you use Theoko? I see him as trying to lead Elana down his own path so he can use her as a pawn.

I could even see him fathering several children which would definitely add some interesting elements. That being said I don't know how well outsiders fit in Ravenloft. Working behind the scenes to corrupt Elana's servants under her nose. Perhaps even been the root of the need for purifications. I don't see him interfering directly or indirectly in her actions nor do I see him knowing of Ebonbane. To him the undead that harass the boarders are nothing but random spawn.

That being said if there's some other goals he might have I'm all ears.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

Yes, it's both wonderful and frustrating that Cermak left Theokos's motives so vague. You can do anything you want with him without contradicting the source, but there's not much direction given either.

In my campaign, I went a different way than your suggestion. I had Theokos be a semi-autonomous extension of Ebonbane. His task is to keep Elena believing she's doing the right thing, so she never questions herself and faces what she's done. Elena is one of the darklords I believe closest to possibly being redeemed. Ebonbane doesn't want that (and neither do the dark powers), so Theokos blocks any chance she has of seeing the consequences of her actions.

That's just my version though. Feel free to disregard and go a different way.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

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I really feel that's the way I was thinking of using him. To be honest I see why Elana needs to be in the thick of things really. If she's not burning villages, interrogating prisoners, or hunting heresy herself she quite frankly doesn't measure as a dark lord at all. She's supposed to be the theocratic version of Drakov almost.

Maybe not in the same way, but a tyrant capable of incredible depths of cruelty. I'm also thinking of having sorcerers and psionic users labeled as witches or consorts of the devil. Wizards are accepted, but only barely. Even the most pure hearted wizards are looked on with contempt and distrust since arcane magic is considered a mockery of the divine gift from Belenus.

One more thing I need to mention is I need to portray the unintended collateral damage involved. She burns innocent men, women, and children in these attacks. That shouldn't be forgotten to be honest. That and the aftermath of the dungeons.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

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divinedragonslayer wrote:To be honest I see why Elana needs to be in the thick of things really. If she's not burning villages, interrogating prisoners, or hunting heresy herself she quite frankly doesn't measure as a dark lord at all.
An accurate assumption. Elena embodies the sins of hate and absolutism which are best played out by actions.

Another idea is to portray her as zealous, dogmatic, and coming across as desperate to believe the things she says and does. Because, if I'm reading her curse correctly, she is desperate to believe. A crisis of faith requires painful questioning of one's beliefs and many find it easier to take extreme actions in an attempt to reinforce the validity of what is already held. For Elena this takes on the form of brutality against those she perceives as "heretics" to try and convince herself she's doing the right thing. It's a coping technique that countless others have used and still do on larger or smaller scales.

Obviously the Dark Powers don't allow her to feel any lasting relief of anxiety so she has to keep on doing it. Theokos's reassurances of the correctness of her actions would actually exacerbate her doubts and continue the cycle. And given that she can't engage in brutality all the time there are likely other, more private ways she tries to cope. When things don't work she likely adds them to her weekly lists of new, immoral acts to be outlawed out of a mixture of shame and frustration. That doesn't mean she isn't still engaged in them, though. Alcoholism, drug abuse, self-mutilation, it's really only limited by the DM's imagination and what the group will tolerate. It's not as gratuitous as it sounds. In fact it's quite human. Something few are willing to admit but still a part of our psychology.

Obviously I could be reading into things but I invoke Rule Zero in my defense.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

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I realize that she has that crisis of faith down inside, but I almost wonder if exacerbating that crisis of faith would only end up a detriment to her status. While I do see her questioning herself in private moments those questions would lead her down the path to salvation. Which is fine if you want Ebonbane to become the master of the Shadowlands.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

Post by High Priest Mikhal »

Theokos's actions don't necessarily push her enough to either find the resolve to seek absolution or drive her over the deep end. Unless that's what the DM wants. Rather the phenomenon of a person being reassured of the rightness of their actions during a crisis of faith aggravating said crisis is what I'm talking about. And he seems more interested in needling her subtly than causing her to reach a critical point.
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Re: Using Nidala and Bonemaw

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And that's the way I look at it because quite frankly she's hit that critical point of being a darklord. Now it's interesting that she's the least evil dark lord of the dark lords unless you prescribe closer to the idea that Adam was dealt an unfair hand in his his own dark lordship. I need to find a way to have her being dead to the screams of the dying while still questioning the absence of the voice of her god.
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