The Amber Wastes Cluster, Al-Qadim and a new Campaign

[Don Fernando]

Hello again fellow Ravenlofters,

Since I'm coming back to the hobby from a long hiatus, I decided to start a new Campaign in the Amber Wastes Cluster. Now I recently got my hands on a very large amount of material from the Al-Qadim setting and I found it to be really excellent material. So, as you might guess one thing led to another and I thought on adapting the setting to Ravenloft (something I tried before but got dropped for lack of time).

Now my first question is, has someone attempted something similar before? Perhaps in one of the QotR publications or if there has been a similar discussion on the forums before. I concerned on two things mainly: Genies and the Sha´ir. As you know magic is handled differently on The Land of Fate and I would like to at least find something similar on the Amber Wastes, to give my players more options for native characters.

Anyways, any advice is most welcome. Thanks in advance!

[alhoon]

I think there's an Al-Qadim domain.

[Satyrwyld]

There was a semi-official Sage Advice in an old Dragon magazine asking what happened to Sha'ir and their gen in Ravenloft. Skip Williams stated that because gen must return, the Powers allow them to leave to fetch spells. What else about the Sha'ir concerned you?

[Don Fernando]

Exactly that. I mean the gen are supposed to fetch spells from the inner or outer planes, which contradicts the premise of Ravenloft as a prision. The other thing is how to handle Genies in Ravenloft.

[Ryan Naylor]

I don't know of anything about Sha'irs specifically (except to say that the gen are constructs of the Dark Powers, and they appear to work as usual without actually leaving the plane - something like clerics and their gods), but there was a genie in Children of the Night: Demons which might give you ideas.

More broadly, there's a story in Tales of Ravenloft (which is excellent), and the domain of Al-Kathos. The version of Malbus in my Pathfinder adaptation is explicitly from Al-Qadim.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Al-Kathos is based in Al-Qadim, but there is precious little info about it (only a short story in Tales of Ravenloft). The Hub project includes an attempt to flesh it out in Mistipedia.
www.fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Al_Kathos

You might also find NeoTiamat's revamped Pharazia from the most recent QtR useful. He expands the domain into a sort of arabian subcontinent of the Core, including the various middle-eastern domains.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I don't know of anything about Sha'irs specifically (except to say that the gen are constructs of the Dark Powers, and they appear to work as usual without actually leaving the plane - something like clerics and their gods),

This seems a perfect solution to me.

[alhoon]

I don't know of anything about Sha'irs specifically (except to say that the gen are constructs of the Dark Powers, and they appear to work as usual without actually leaving the plane - something like clerics and their gods),

This seems a perfect solution to me.

It seems fine to me too, but I don't know anything about those gens and Al Qadim

[vyshan]

I would also recommend taking a look at some of the stuff from Tripple Ace Games Hellfrost: land of fire setting, as it is an arabian themed game and could be useful for ideas.

[Don Fernando]

I don't know of anything about Sha'irs specifically (except to say that the gen are constructs of the Dark Powers, and they appear to work as usual without actually leaving the plane - something like clerics and their gods), but there was a genie in Children of the Night: Demons which might give you ideas.

More broadly, there's a story in Tales of Ravenloft (which is excellent), and the domain of Al-Kathos. The version of Malbus in my Pathfinder adaptation is explicitly from Al-Qadim.

Thanks Ryan for your answer. I have pondered about Gens coming from the Dark Powers and I think this idea somewhat defeats the significance of the Gen and thus the Sha'ir. Gen in escence are living repesentations of the 4 Elemental planes, and as such are not actually maical things that come from a specific power (such as avatars). Now, I have always seen the DP as channelers of other Powers' magic, so all clerics have access to their spells, at a somewhat disconnected rate frome their diety. On the other hand elemental magic, the magic that comes out of the Inner planes (elemental planes), is elemental magic energy that originates there and that is harvested out of the plane, and thus not granted by any power. Considering this, I really am not sure that the Dark Powers, as much as powers as they are, can actually create beings out of the fundamental blocks of existence and grant elemental magic such as the Sha'irs use. This actually is what makes the Inner Planes so different from the Outer Planes, and thus any kind of magic comming out of there is different too.

Regarding Al-kymer (I never understood why he was included as a Demon, since he is actually an Efreet, but anyway) is actually a good example to consider. Genies as any other plane dweller, are actually trapped in RL, and should not be allowed to scape by normal means (by returning to the elemental planes where they belong, in case of a genie), eventhough they are elemental beeings and not magical by definition. And this poses my actual dilema with the Gen and the Sha'ir.

Al-Kathos is based in Al-Qadim, but there is precious little info about it (only a short story in Tales of Ravenloft). The Hub project includes an attempt to flesh it out in Mistipedia.
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Al_Kathos

You might also find NeoTiamat's revamped Pharazia from the most recent QtR useful. He expands the domain into a sort of arabian subcontinent of the Core, including the various middle-eastern domains.

Thanks for the heads up Gonzoron, I'll take a look at the QtR for more info.

I would also recommend taking a look at some of the stuff from Tripple Ace Games Hellfrost: land of fire setting, as it is an arabian themed game and could be useful for ideas.

Thank you Vyshan, but I really want to use Al-Qadim for the arabian theme that I want to infuse to the Amber Wastes. I'll consider your suggestion though for future reference.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Considering this, I really am not sure that the Dark Powers, as much as powers as they are, can actually create beings out of the fundamental blocks of existence and grant elemental magic such as the Sha'irs use.

What you're running into here is two concepts butting heads:
1) "The gens/Sha'ir are so special and different that they can break the rules of the multiverse"
2) "The Dark Powers are so special and different that they can break the rules of the multiverse"


Which one wins depends on which version of "special and different" you want to play up in your campaign. (Much like whether Superman or Batman wins depends on whose comic they are in at the time.) Naturally, with us being 'loft-heads, we'll push for the Dark Powers to win, but it's your choice. The Dark Power can create whole nations full of people out of nothing. I'm sure they can make a sufficient simulacrum of a fundamental elemental being that no mortal living within Ravenloft could tell the difference. Alternately, you can consider that elemental summoning does work in Ravenloft, but often twisted into dread elementals. (water->blood, earth->grave, air->mist, fire->pyre). You could have your gen twisted similarly, but that still doesn't prove or disprove whether the gen is actually leaving Ravenloft or not. (maybe they just think they are and the DP's whip up a domain/oubliette that looks like the plane they are going to.)

[The Lesser Evil]

Ravenloft has its own elemental: pyre, mist, blood, and grave. Additionally, in one of the netbooks, somebody wrote up a thing on a cluster of domains that were Ravenloft's equivalent to the elemental planes. Perhaps that's where the gens could go to get their spells. It could potentially be quite a harrowing experience for the gens as they return with horrid stories of going somewhere that exists as a perversion to what they know. It could be a similar starting point for many genies that are drawn into the mists, or perhaps Ravenloft has its own Mist-subtype equivalent of genies that exist there.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Ravenloft has its own elemental: pyre, mist, blood, and grave. Additionally, in one of the netbooks, somebody wrote up a thing on a cluster of domains that were Ravenloft's equivalent to the elemental planes..

Elements of Terror, QtR18?

[The Lesser Evil]

Ravenloft has its own elemental: pyre, mist, blood, and grave. Additionally, in one of the netbooks, somebody wrote up a thing on a cluster of domains that were Ravenloft's equivalent to the elemental planes..

Elements of Terror, QtR18?

Yeah, that's it. Just looked the article over, and they would probably require a fair amount of alteration to fit in with something we might be looking for here.

[Resonant Curse]

Thanks Ryan for your answer. I have pondered about Gens coming from the Dark Powers and I think this idea somewhat defeats the significance of the Gen and thus the Sha'ir. Gen in escence are living repesentations of the 4 Elemental planes, and as such are not actually maical things that come from a specific power (such as avatars).

[...]


Regarding Al-kymer (I never understood why he was included as a Demon, since he is actually an Efreet, but anyway) is actually a good example to consider. Genies as any other plane dweller, are actually trapped in RL, and should not be allowed to scape by normal means (by returning to the elemental planes where they belong, in case of a genie), eventhough they are elemental beeings and not magical by definition. And this poses my actual dilema with the Gen and the Sha'ir.

.

The Dark Powers have made the corrupt version of elementals with the dread elementals, so why not have them be a similar idea for the gen?

Al-kymer is probably there because Van Richten is working in world and doesn't know the difference between various things. He doesn't have access to the rulebooks or the cosmological overview that characters from places other than the Demiplane of Dread have, let alone the players/dms. He gets stuff wrong all the time in the books because he's forced to get his knowledge firsthand and by trial and error. That was what was so wonderful about the VR Guides, it's him stumbling through and giving you an idea of what normal people in the game world would think about thing.