Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Ender »

Well, for the added Stealth bonus, it really depends on just how much "oomph" the individual subraces offer. Like you said, a Background can give them Stealth bonuses, and most calibans will come from an Urchin or Street Thief or Family Shame Locked Up In The Cellar type background anyway. So, yeah, I'm okay with it not being a racial trait if they don't really need it.
Here's the important thing to remember: this is yours. If you want it to be part the race, make it part of the race. If I use it in my game, maybe I'll remove that and have my players take an appropriate background to represent it. Everyone will run their campaign the way they want to, so do what works for you.
Using the SCAG Tiefling update is tempting... but I must confess that I don't really know how to do so. See, I pre-ordered my copy of SCAG before November release, but the shop I ordered it from got only about 3 copies and then sold them all before I got there. And the online store that they got it from has YET to restock the damn thing. So I don't really know the actual way that the SCAG writes up the Tiefling, though I do recall that it gives an alternate ability score modifier, and three optional racial traits - switching out the level 3 SLA for Burning Hands, replacing the "devilish" SLAs with mental ones, or trading SLAs for Flight?
Okay, let me give a rundown of what SCAG does with the Tiefling so we can see if it helps with the ability scores and the rest. It has a sidebar that introduces 5 variant abilities:

Appearance - This is just narrative and gives you other options for how your Tiefling can look.
Feral - This replaces the normal ability score adjustments with +1 INT, +2 DEX.
Devil's Tongue - This replaces the normal Infernal Legacy with vicious mockery, charm person (2nd level), and enthrall.
Hellfire - This replaces hellish rebuke from the normal Infernal Legacy with burning hands (2nd level).
Wings - This replaces the normal Infernal Legacy trait with a fly speed of 30 from bat wings.

What I'm suggesting we do, then is use the 5E Half-Orc as Caliban by default. I say this primarily because when I design something for a system, I prefer to stick as close to the system as possible. Since Ravenloft took the Half-Orc and called it the Caliban before, I see no real reason to stop now. If we really don't want the default to be identical to the Half-Orc, we can have our own version. It doesn't really matter. The default version, whatever it is, should be an easily-accessible race for the players. Once we have that, we have a few ways to proceed.

METHOD 1: Modular Deformities

We list a number of alternate traits (we can call these deformities if we want to harken back to the QtR article). Each Deformity replaces one or more default traits of the Caliban. Some of them are mutually exclusive. For instance, we have the Ghostly Keening variant trait that replaces Savage Attacks. We also have Cold Blooded that replaces Relentless Endurance. For this example, we have one more trait: Thick Hide that replaces Relentless Endurance. Because both Cold Blooded and Thick Hide replace Relentless Endurance, we can't make a Caliban with both of those traits, but we could combine Ghostly Keening and Thick Hide if we wanted. The benefit here is the modularity. You can combine a whole bunch of different things. Each set of ability score modifiers would be its own Deformity that replaces the default ability score adjustments, as well. Banshee bloodline gets +2 CHA, +1 WIS while the Brute Bloodline gets +2 STR and +1 CON or something like that.

This is, however, far more in the style of 3.X than 5E. The Tiefling variant really only has a few swappable options. Additionally, it poses the problem of how to add abilities without swapping. The Banshee that we currently have lists two abilities, but the Bestial has more. Large amounts of modularity might result in more optimization than the system really wants.

If we did choose this way, we could list each of the variants as "packages" that include a specific set of Deformities. The Banshee package contains Ghostly Keening and Cold Blooded. The Bestial contains Feral Armaments, Thick Hide, and Loping Fiend. And so on.

Honestly, the more I write about this, the less I like the idea. It's just not 5E.

METHOD 2: Individual Variants

This one is kind of obvious. We treat each one completely separately and do with them what we want. Not much to explain here. The real downside is that, again, this isn't how 5E likes to handle things, just from the opposite end of the spectrum from Method 1. If we did it this way, they might as well be separate races entirely.

METHOD 3: Subraces Again

So I think maybe I just went in circles and settled back at the start. Subraces are good. So how do we handle the ability score adjustments? Bah, fine, we just encapsulate the ability score adjustments in the subraces individually. I don't think there's a better way to do it. My suggestion would be to make the Brute subrace functionally identical to the Half-Orc, so that option isn't really being completely removed from the players. And, let's be honest, the Brute is described in terms that would translate perfectly to the Half-Orc's mechanics.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Hell_Born »

Yeah, when you put it like that, subraces are best, and it's not as if encapsulating the ability scores for each are that much of a stretch, given the kind of race we're dealing with.

And yeah, I know, the Brute is the obvious "orc/ogre stand-in" of the Calibans, so it makes sense to just use the Half-Orc. Still, I'd like to try and make it at least a little different if I can; the "Caliban as reskinned half-orc" always kind of bored me.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Hell_Born »

I'm guessing Ender is busy in real life. Just giving this topic a bit of a bump to keep it from slipping.

Though, on reflection, how can I handle the Brute as a subrace? The vanilla half-orc is meant to be its own race, wouldn't the Brute caliban be kind of overpowered if it basically added all of the half-orc's racial traits to the core caliban's traits?
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Ender »

Yeah, sorry, I run two and a half campaigns and spend a lot of time working on them. Plus I'm also doing a lot of 5E conversion stuff for no real reason other than my own interests.

As for the Brute, as previously mentioned, I'd just split the Half-Orc into base traits and subclass traits and call it a day. BUT. If we wanted to make it a little more unique, I might suggest something in place of the Half-Orc's Relentless Endurance. For instance:
Unnatural Anatomy. When you are dealt a critical hit, you can use your reaction to gain resistance against that attack. You must finish a long rest before you can use this ability again.
This was an off-the-cuff ability I just thought of, representing a Brute's toughness in a way that didn't affect every single attack or their hit points. It's a bit limited in its use, granted, so maybe making it something you can choose to use on any single attack would be better and allowing it to be used again after a short rest instead of a long rest could work.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Hell_Born »

Yeah, I know, I'm trying to be patient, so I'm sorry if I looked like I was accusing you.

I need to go back and do up a proper write-up of the Caliban 2nd draft as it stands so far from our discussions, but Unnatural Anatomy + a Strength bonus might just be the best way to swing the Brute; I think even as-is the only real difference between the 5e halforc and the base caliban is the presence of Relentless Endurance and Savage Attack.

Also, yes, I think Unnatural Anatomy working for any given hit and being 1/short rest instead of 1/long rest is better. Players will generally save it for criticals or other really powerful attacks anyway, and it's technically not even as powerful as Relentless Endurance.

By the way, although I really appreciate your efforts here, any possibility you might swing by my other 5e racebrewing topics, too, when time permits? I'll try and get the Caliban 2nd draft up here, make myself useful.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

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Alright, let's give this a shot...

Caliban Racial Core: 2nd edition
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Darkvision 60 feet
Freakish Horror: A Caliban automatically has Proficiency in Charisma (Intimidation) checks.
Unnatural Blood: A Caliban belongs to one of the five subraces; Banshee, Bestial, Brute, Cannibal or Witchspawn. Acquire the additional abilities determined by one subrace.


Banshee Subrace: 2nd edition
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Charisma, +1 Wisdom
Cold Blooded: Existing with the chill in the grave racing through their blood, Banshees are hardly touched by mundane cold. A Banshee Caliban has Resistance to Cold.
Deathly Pallor. You have disadvantage on saving throws to resist diseases.
Ghostly Keening. As an action, you can cause each creature in a 10-foot radius sphere originating from you to make a Wisdom saving throw. The DC for this saving throw equals 8 + your Charisma modifier + your proficiency bonus. A creature takes 1d6 psychic damage and 1d6 thunder damage on a failed save and are frightened by you until the end of your next turn. On a successful save, a creature takes half as much damage and is not frightened. The psychic and thunder damage increases to 2d6 at 6th level, 3d6 at 11th level, and 4d6 at 16th level. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.


Bestial Subrace: 2nd edition
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Wisdom, +1 Constitution
Loping Fiend. Your base walking speed increases to 35 feet.
Natural Weapon Affinity. Choose either the piercing or slashing damage type. This choice determines the damage type associated with your Feral Armaments and Thick Hide.
Feral Armaments. When you make an unarmed strike, you may choose to deal either bludgeoning damage or your Natural Weapon Affinity damage type.
Thick Hide. You have resistance to your Natural Weapon Affinity damage type from nonmagical weapon attacks.


Brute Subrace: Tentative 2nd edtion
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Strength, +1 Constitution
Powerful Build. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Unnatural Vitality: Once per short rest, when you take damage from an attack, you may use your reaction to gain Resistance against that attack.
Devastating Strength: You have Proficiency with your Unarmed Strikes, which do 1D6 bludgeoning damage.

Took a look at the Goliath (Elemental Evil Player's Guide, downloadable from WoTC's website) and used it + the Half-Orc to draft up this rendition of the Brute. Added Devastating Strength to represent the whole "tear you apart with my bare hands" thing that Brutes have going on as the setting's resident "ogres".
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Ender »

Brute Subrace: Tentative 2nd edtion
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Strength, +1 Constitution
Powerful Build. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Unnatural Vitality: Once per short rest, when you take damage from an attack, you may use your reaction to gain Resistance against that attack.
Devastating Strength: You have Proficiency with your Unarmed Strikes, which do 1D6 bludgeoning damage.
Devastating Strength needs to take into account the change to unarmed attacks, again. You're always proficient with your unarmed strikes, so there's no need to say that. Also, since damage was standardized at 1 + STR, if you want an increase here, you either need a base increase (like 2 + STR), a STR adjustment (1 + 1.5 times STR), or a dice variable in place of the base (1d4 + STR). Given that they get a STR bonus, I wouldn't use the multiplier. I'd be more inclined to use the flat increase as opposed to the dice, given that's the direction WotC looks like they're taking now.
Last edited by Ender on Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Ender »

I might propose another alternative to Devastating Strength:
Savage Grapple. When you successfully grapple an opponent, you can deal damage as though you had made an unarmed strike. Additionally, if you begin your turn grappling an opponent, you have advantage on rolls to attack your grappled opponent with an unarmed strike.
Thought I'd throw this idea out there. Note that this ability is a small subset of the Grappler feat.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Hell_Born »

Sorry, it's just all of the races I've read with features relating to Unarmed Strikes have specifically stated "you have proficiency with them" - cf. the Shifter in the Eberron Unearthed Arcana article.

Hmm... is there any reason we can't have Devastating Strength (unarmed shrieks deal 2+STR damage) and Savage Grapple? I think it makes sense if Brutes are fully capable of beating people to death with their bare hands as well as being able to crush them in their grip.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Ender »

I wouldn't, personally, use both Devastating Strength and Savage Grapple. That's a powerful combination together.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Hell_Born »

It is kind of powerful, yeah, and with the Powerful Build and Unnatural Vitality attributes, it is a bit much. I think that with the +2 Strength the Brute already gets, Savage Grapple is probably a better choice, because they kind of are already better than a human with unarmed attacks, and apparently everyone comes proficient with unarmed attacks now, from what you say.

Actually, I was wondering; what's wrong with the original Brute's "It Will Not Die" racial feature, which makes it harder to kill if you do drop it to zero HP? Is it too overpowered?

Shadowking wrote:As the original writer :-), kudos...

While I'm not too familiar with 5e (or not at all- stopped playing at 3.5e), it seems like a really nice way to update. Still- perhaps a more detailed Deformities list would be fitting, to allow Caliban players more varieties (or it can be an open list, similar to rewards/curses from failed Powers Checks). Also- don't races get stat penalties now?
Wow! I'm sorry I never noticed you commenting here before; it's a great honor to have your approval.

Actually, with the SCAG as a legit example, I think Deformities as an array of switchable racial features might be workable, but that demands that we get a balanced set of sub-races done first.

And no, racial penalties went away after 3rd edition; the design ideology was that races should be optimized for certain roles, but still functional for others. Averting the Square Race Round Class trope, if that means anything to you. So far, the only 5e races with some form of penalty are the Drow (disadvantage on attack rolls & saving throws in direct sunlight) and Duergar (disadvantage on attack rolls & saving throws in direct sunlight, can't use spell-like abilities in direct sunlight).
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Hell_Born »

Stepping past the Cannibal for a moment, since there's going to be some difficulties keeping it and the Ghul branch of the Mortif seperate on a mechanical level - that really needs to be discussed when Ender gets back - that leaves the... huh, that just leaves the Witchspawn, given Brute is still up in the air.

This is the trickiest of the subraces, as it was always the "black magician" of the caliban lines. Banshees are unearthly beauty with some necromantic influence, Bestials are the blurred line between man and beast, Brutes are humanity's innate savagery incarnate, Cannibals are... well, I think the lurking, hungry monster, maybe, it's been a while, and Witchspawn are literally the touch of evil magic, avatars of Forces Best Left Untouched.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Hell_Born »

Without anyone's opinions or advice here, I really don't know how to go with the Brute, Cannibal or Witchspawn. Still, I figured I should give it a shot, maybe now there might be more souls who're willing to offer feedback...

Draft of the Brute Subrace:
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Strength, +1 Constitution
Hulking Monster. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift. You count your Strength as +2 higher for dealing damage with Unarmed Strikes.
Savage Grapple. When you successfully grapple an opponent, you can deal damage as though you had made an unarmed strike. Additionally, if you begin your turn grappling an opponent, you have advantage on rolls to attack your grappled opponent with an unarmed strike.


Draft of the Cannibal Subrace:
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Dexterity, +1 Constitution
Filth-Eater: Cannibals possess Resistance (Poison) and are immune to non-magical diseases.
It Will Not Die: A Cannibal passes Death Saving Throws on a 5 or higher, instead of a 10 or higher. It also has Advantage on saving throws made to avoid being rendered Unconscious.
Graveworm: Cannibals possess a Climb speed of 20 feet, can Squeeze through spaces sized for a creature two size categories smaller than they are, suffer no penalties for squeezing through a space sized for a creature one size category smaller than they are, and may crawl at their normal speed.


Draft of the Witchspawn Subrace:
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Intelligence, +1 Wisdom
Hexcrafter: A Witchspawn knows three spells of its choice taken from the Warlock spell list. A cantrip at first level, a 1st level spell at third level, and a 2nd level spell at fifth level. A Witchspawn's racial spells use Intelligence as a casting trait and cast at their default level. A witchspawn's racial cantrip may be used at will. Its racial 1st and 2nd level spells may each be cast once per short rest.
Blood Magic: A Witchspawn may sacrifice one hit dice of blood when casting a spell to increase its effectiveness as if the witchspawn had increased the spell's slot by one level.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by Hell_Born »

So, this project is important to me - long story short, I've got a post-apocalyptic fantasy setting I'm working on and Calibans are golden to use for the obligatory Magical Mutant Race - and so I thought I'd share the current draft of 5e B&B-styled Calibans I've produced in my workings elsewhere on the net:

Caliban, Core:
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Vision: Darkvision 60 feet
Uncanny Valley: Whether through grotesque physical mutations or some spiritual taint, your ability to unnerve others gives you Advantage on Charisma (Intimidation) checks.
Subrace: Your ability score modifiers and racial traits are determined by the subrace you belong to. Choose between Banshee, Beast, Brute, Cannibal or Witchspawn.

Caliban, Banshee:
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Charisma, +1 Intelligence
Unearthly Voice: Some haunting aspect of your voice simultaneously enthralls and disturbs listeners, giving you Advantage on Charisma (Performance) checks based on song or speech.
Touched by Death: You have an instinctive ability to sense the presence of the dead in some manner. This grants you Advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks made to detect the presence of Undead creatures, and allows you to use your Passive Perception to sense if a creature had died within 60 feet of you during the last 6 hours.
Haunting Wail: As an action, you can voice a ghostly keening that fills the weak-willed with a sense of doom. Creatures within 30 feet that hear the sound must make a Wisdom saving throw (DC 8 + your Charisma modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, creatures within range are frightened for one (1) minute. At the end of each of their turns, they may attempt the save again. On a successful save, the creature breaks free of the Wail.

Caliban, Beast:
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Strength, +1 Wisdom
One Of The Pack: You have Proficiency in Wisdom (Animal Training).
Bestial Mobility: You have Proficiency in Strength (Athletics) and Advantage on Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks.

Caliban, Brute:
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Strength, +1 Constitution
Powerful Build: You are treated as being one size category larger to determine your capacity to carry, push, drag, or lift loads.
Furious Retaliation: When you take damage, you can use your Reaction to make a melee attack against a creature in range with Advantage on the attack roll. After using this trait, you must complete a short rest or long rest before you can use it again.
Crushing Embrace: When you use your Attack action to Grapple a creature, on a successful Grapple, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to your Strength bonus. Additionally, each round you maintain the grapple, you can inflict this damage again if you choose.

Caliban, Cannibal:
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Dexterity, +1 Constitution
Eater of Filth: You can consume raw meat, decaying food and other noxious organic substances without issue, allowing to you use such fare to meet your daily food requirements. Additionally, you are immune to non-magical diseases, and have Resistance to Poison Damage.
Noisome Skulker: You have Proficiency in Dexterity (Stealth) and have Advantage on Strength (Acrobatics) checks.

Caliban, Witchspawn:
Ability Score Modifiers: +2 Intelligence, +1 Charisma
Arcane Prodigy: You have Proficiency in Intelligence (Arcana).
Loathsome Aura: You project a mystic malaise that unnerves others, subtly throwing them off in battle; when making an Initiative check, increase your result by +1.
Touch of Unease: You can concentrate your aura into a spiritual taint that sickens those whom you touch. As an action, you can make an Unarmed Strike; if you hit your target, they must make a Constitution saving throw (DC8 + your Int modifier + your Proficiency bonus). On a failed save, they are Poisoned until the end of your next turn. After using your Touch of Unease, whether the target passes or fails their saving throw, you lose access to your Loathsome Aura until you complete a short rest or long rest. You cannot use your Touch of Unease ability whilst your Loathsome Aura is inaccessible.
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Re: Brutes and Banshees Revisited: An Alternate 5e Caliban

Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

I'm not using 5E IMC, but I've always liked the idea of each caliban being unique, and have their powers and drawbacks tied to how they were created. Anyone know of a caliban variant that has a swim speed? I'd like to have a look at such a thing, at least as a reference for my own campaign.
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