Dementlieu since 760

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Dementlieu since 760

Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

I've been slaving away on a huge project campaign in Dementlieu in 770, in the same campaign world as my old "Kara's Daughters" game, 10 years after that campaign ended. One of the big challenges is the amount of work that goes into pushing the whole timeline forward--I never liked how RL seemed too small in its scope of time; all these people plotting potentially world-changing things, and most stay stuck in mid-plot for decades. Azalin seems to be the only one who accomplishes anything lasting, and that only by accident. I remember the old Greyhawk games would release updates every few years, and I could track changes in hundreds of minor characters across four sourcebooks over time. I never got that feel from RL. This campaign is going to take place on a wiki of my own creation, so I hope to really create that sense of a progressing world.

I also want this game to evoke a "modern" feel in some ways, not actual Ravenloft Modern, but just the general sense of progress, new concepts and technologies disrupting the world in which people live. No internet, of course, but the rise of these new "newspapers" play a huge role in shaping Dementlieu politics. The disruption caused by the media alone are enough to drive Dominic out of his mind, even if it wasn't for all the other stuff going on.

Anyway, here's my timeline for Dementlieu so far, I'd love to hear people's thoughts:
  • 755-6 In the wake of another Bloody Jack massacre, many Paridonian expatriates arrive in the Core, including newspaper professionals. Over the next few years, the supply and demand for mass print media increases.
    757 BC Spring: The mysterious "S" writes the Second Gazetteer; all material from that sourcebook is current up to that year.
    758 The Original Kara's Daughters campaign begins
    759 BC A group of Kara's Daughters accompany Mina Drakov and Estelle Dirac to the Rose Day celebration in Dementlieu, and are prevented from returning before Census Day when Estelle is kidnapped. This leads to the formation of the Dementlieu Cell of Kara's Daughters.
    759 BC The Census Day Massacre; a conspiracy of vampyr plotting to take over Falkovnia are foiled at the cost of many lives.
    760 BC Vlad Drakov is assassinated; Falkovnia descends into total anarchy, with warring factions loyal to various warlords and freedom fighters vying for control. Hundreds of refugees flee to Dementlieu, Lamordia, Richemulot, even Darkon. Thousands more are trapped in Falkovnia under the thumb of various petty tyrants.
    761 BC Helene DuSuis's brutally battered body is found floating in the Delta. The Lord-Governor provokes outrage and controversy at her funeral when he strongly implies that her killer was one of the poor she served, despite the investigation having barely begun. This precedes a series of draconian laws and restrictions against the poor.
    762 BC A handful of warlords and power brokers form the Eminent Council, a new Falkovnian government. Their control only covers about one-third of the previous domain.
    763 BC Having extended their control to two thirds of Falkovnia, the Eminent Council appeals to their neighbors for additional protection. Invoking a provision in the Treaty of Four Towers, several nations bordering Darkon convene a meeting and forge a series of new agreements over the next several years. Sharing their common problems with Falkovnian refugees, Lamordia petitions to join the new council of nations.
    763 BC Joan Secousse dies; (haven't decided yet) becomes the new Bastion of the Dementlieu sect of Ezra, and (the other guy) is stricken with her illnesses.
    763 BC Marcel Delacourte is discovered to have kept slaves in his sweatshops, using a rare form of Voodan necromancy to render them "living zombies." For the first time, stories in the various papers are accompanied by actual photographs, including one of a "zombie" child.
    764 BC As part of a new agreement, Dementlieu annexes Silbervas, Lamordia takes Lekar and Richemulot takes Aerie.
    764 BC In the wake of continuing public outrage from the Delacourte scandal, the Lord-Governor proposes a new and expanded detective force, trained by Alanik Ray.
    764 BC A horrible storm blows ashore in Port-a-Lucine, driving people and animals mad and damaging property all along the waterfront.
    765 BC The Dementlieu cell of Kara's Daughters moves out of Lumley House, and changes their name.
    765 BC Councilor Jean-Pierre Theroux of the Council of Brilliance is found dead, an apparent suicide, but the circumstances of his death are the subject of many rumors.
    765 BC A play posthumously attributed to the late Jean-Pierre Theroux begins to circulate in the underground circuit, claiming he was a victim of years of mind control.
    766 BC A popular book coins the term "Les Grands Esprit" for the unseen forces that control the government. The anonymous author claims (s)he was a victim of this mind control, but that the "overminds" are benevolent, guiding Dementlieu toward greatness. Theories range from it being fiction to fact, to mental illness, to a form of scripture.
    770 BC Start of Current Campaign
Oh, and I'm looking for players, if anyone out there wants to join. :D The game system is not D&D/Pathfinder or any other form of tabletop, but an online system, of my own creation. I'm still ironing the kinks out of it, but I'm especially interested in folks who know RL, and/or have experience with wikis.
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

Post by The Lesser Evil »

Well, from what I've seen in your setup, you've got a pot of revolution just about ready to boil over if it isn't there already. Here's some of the conflicts I see coming and how messily they might be all entangled together:

Class struggle/warfare:
The double scandals of the enactment of draconian laws and the murderous exploitation of poor children by Delacourte would just about be enough to have the peasantry up in arms if the nobility didn't make at least superficial conciliatory measures. (Violent revolution in the false history is not yet even a hundred years past.)
L'Ordures (Gaz III p. 18) would likely become a lot darker and may slip out of Serge Lamond’s controls to a more extremist leader, likely a puppet of the Brain’s. Likewise, the Brotherhood of Noble Assassins (from Heroes of Light) may become more extremist/drastic. With your emphasis on the chaos of sweeping modernization/public change, either group might turn into entities resembling Anonymous (which would be ironic, given their implementation of Guy Fawkes masks as imagery), causing increasing amounts of property damage and leaking of state secrets. Either group may make an assassination attempt at Dominic, which, successful or not, probably make the class struggle situation gravely worse.
To complicate the narrative, the revelation of Falkovnian refugees within Dementlieu’s borders and a Dementlieuse nativist/nationalist movement could confound an already messy situation.

Diplomatic Nightmares:
The revelation of potential foreign involvement (the Souragnien Voodoo connection) mixed with rising nationalism is likely to cause a significant kerfuffle with Dementlieu’s relations to Souragne (especially if you combine the establishment of Souragne’s own sect in the FoS Souragne Gaz netbook with the religious shakeup idea I mention below.) Similarly, relations with Darkon might become really screwed up if Stefan Dyreth’s (of Martira Bay) co-involvement in the creation of the zombie dust is discovered.

Falkovnian refugee scandal:
The influx of Falkovnian refugees may pose a problem for Josephine Chartreaux, whom in one Dread Possibility (Gaz III p. 29) was secretly sheltering Falkovnian refugees in an encampment on the Lamordia border. In the wake of the class warfare mentioned above or the rising nativism (see below), Dementlieuse dissidents may wonder why the government has been secretly favoring hated foreigners over its own citizens. Josephine would be in a particularly bad place, as she has been a figure of Dementlieuse nationalism against Falkovnian aggression but now might be seen as a secret foreign sympathizer.

Nativist/nationalist surge:
With the flood of Falkovnian refugees (and the revelation they’ve been there all along), the revelation of Souragnien voodoo causing the murder and reanimation of hundreds of children, and the implementation of a new police force led not only by a foreigner but also a nonhuman, it seems like the Dementlieuse, used to being the cultural and ideological leaders of the Core, might assume a foreign infiltration has corrupted their nation, resulting in a wave of anti-foreigner/pro-Dementlieuse ideology sweep over the nation, augmented by a change in focus in the Dementlieuse arts.

Undoubtedly, the nationalist surge might generate to other targets that might taint the purity of the nations. Figures like André Duvet and his Scions of Purity (a noncanon group, but a good fit- see Quoth the Raven 10) might have a heyday in this environment and might be able to become a little bit more public (perhaps enough to get under-the-table state sponsorship). Andre and others like him may seek to use the Gendarmerie to thwart any newly established detective force, especially one led by a foreigner nonhuman.
Nationalism/nativism’s relationship with the ongoing class struggle (see above) will likely be messy and complicated.

Religious shakeup:

Although the Dementlieuse have never shown very much religious fervor, perhaps that’s because there was no strong religious structure in place when the domain faced social upheaval in its (false) past. Social and ideological revolution requires legitimation, and the previously neglected church would be the perfect place (the old church as a link to the ancient Dementlieuse past.)

Within the Church, the passing of the church elder to the worthy successor and the blighting of the unworthy might be enough to bring passionate strife to the Mordentish Branch for the first time ever. Especially since the Time of Unparalleled Darkness is fast approaching- a date that might cause significant rancor between the disagreeing academics of the Mordentish Branch. (Not to mention the potential formation of the Fifth Sect).

Various forces within the church might have some interesting things to say about Les Grands Esprit. Nationalist sympathizers may ascribe to it a corruptive Souragnien influence similar to how Ti-Maman has (or is seen as) corrupted church efforts in Souragne in the FoS Souragne Gaz.
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

Wow, you basically nailed all the major themes of my campaign. I guess things are headed in the right direction with that timeline, because that's exactly where I want the campaign to start off, with a serious economic stratification problem as the gulf between the rich and poor gets wider and wider, powerful nationalism tied to that growing unrest in all corners of society, and the media fanning the flames.

To be clear, I made the change to say that the children in Delacourt's Mills were actually alive, that his version of the zombie powder did not actually kill people, just made them tractable and senseless like zombies. I did this for a number of reasons, but the bottom line was that I just felt that having 100+ child zombies was a little over-the-top.

When discussing branches of the Church of Ezra, you say that succession "might be enough to bring passionate strife to the Mordentish Branch". I'm assuming that you mean Dementlieu? But you are correct, at any rate, and actually I was considering the possibility of having some strife between the Mordentish and Dementlieu branches. One of PC's in the previous campaign was the child of Mordentish expatriates limit living in Dementlieu. What was the plight of the poor becoming such a huge issue, one would imagine that that PC and her parents would gain a lot more clout promoting the LG doctrines and caring for your fellow man, rather just poring over old books trying to find the mysteries of life.

I will definitely look into your concept of the Scions of purity, I had not read that qtr yet and it sounds like exactly what I'm looking for here. As for the other two secret societies that you say would be taking darker turns, I am figuring that they would have fragmented off multiple Splinter groups with the kind you're talking about.
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

Okay, reading up on Andre and the Scions, and it also seems a bit too over-the-top. I can see them perhaps committing arson to destroy areas where the poor congregate, or or hospices that take care of them, but that's about as far as I would take it.
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

Campaign is currently on hold while I add more to the wiki and hammer out a firmer set of starting rules. WRT the timeline, I'm stuck between two options:

A) unrest among the citizenry came to a head in 765-ish, culminating in a whole new set of agreement, conciliations, and basically a redesign of the government. However, it's now five years later, and lots of folks are saying that nothing has actually changed. The storms of unrest are brewing to do it all over again.
B) battle lines are drawn for that government redesign, but it hasn't happened yet. A few pacification attempts may have been made to one side or another, but not a systemic overhaul.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

Post by Igor the Henchman »

And what is the darklord's angle in all this? Any new schemes going on?
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

Igor the Henchman wrote:And what is the darklord's angle in all this? Any new schemes going on?
Well, there are lots of possibilities, but a lot of Dominic's schemes will mostly be reactions to circumstances. Will all his children and grandchildren coming of age, he will have even more people he can't control. And there are a few others who are immune, too, whether they realize it or not. I'm figuring there should be at least one assassination attempt on him in there somewhere before the campaign starts. He may still be head of the council, or retired, or "retired," but probably not dead. He's getting older, though, and I like the idea of him of him facing old age with the mounting horror that not only is Dementlieu no longer his playground, it's no longer his...at all. He's just one of many players in this game, and the others are all gaining ground on him.

But the question is, how far will he go to be king of the mountain again? The book that I mention in the timeline poses an interesting possibility, that as it becomes impossible for Dominic to hide his manipulations, could public narrative spin those manipulations as beneficial? Especially if those manipulations do not appear to be selfish, but seem more focused on fighting against other forces of darkness? People under his control may not understand who or what is giving them orders, and if their mysterious puppetmaster guides them inexplicably to, say, thwart the rise of a powerful crime lord :Brain: , then who are they to argue? "Guide us, oh great one!" :lol:

It's an interesting possibility, but there are many others.

FWIW, if it seems like I'm undecided, well, it's because it's not entirely my decision, nor is it entirely mine to share. I'm designing Inkubator so that control of major characters like Dominic is shared by "Secret Keepers." I'm a Secret Keeper (SK) for Dominic, but not the only one, and there are a couple of folks on this board who are not his SK's, who don't want spoilers.
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

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DeepShadow of FoS wrote:Okay, reading up on Andre and the Scions, and it also seems a bit too over-the-top. I can see them perhaps committing arson to destroy areas where the poor congregate, or or hospices that take care of them, but that's about as far as I would take it.
I would probably have a few sympathizers/members who are skilled in intellectual fields, such as the medical arts or pathology. Their agenda could be much more subtle, if, for example, they unleashed food poisoning or other disease on charitable institutions. This would have the added benefit of endangering a large amount of the poor, requiring the least amount of effort, making the poor a dangerous source of disease in the public eye, and discrediting various charities. In this case, Andre and his goons may work primarily to cover up various schemes, operate as smoke screens in official channels, and occasionally act as legbreakers or make somebody disappear if needed. (A '60s era, older and wiser Andre could also make for an excellent nationalist/fascist politician if you need such a candidate in your game.)
Well, there are lots of possibilities, but a lot of Dominic's schemes will mostly be reactions to circumstances. Will all his children and grandchildren coming of age, he will have even more people he can't control. And there are a few others who are immune, too, whether they realize it or not.
The two rising stars I'm looking at is Celeste 'd'Honaire-Loverde (profiled in Legacy of Blood) and Germain d'Honaire (the son of Dominic, briefly mentioned in Dominic's entry in Gaz III).
I'm figuring there should be at least one assassination attempt on him in there somewhere before the campaign starts. He may still be head of the council, or retired, or "retired," but probably not dead. He's getting older, though, and I like the idea of him of him facing old age with the mounting horror that not only is Dementlieu no longer his playground, it's no longer his...at all. He's just one of many players in this game, and the others are all gaining ground on him.
If somebody were to engineer an assassination attempt, I would think the Brain would be the most likely candidate. Of the Brain's proxies, Angelique Molière (The Forgotten Children) or Jacques du Almoy (Book of Sacrifices) might both be likely candidates. If things get bad or the Brain decides to go bold, he might send the Ba'al Verzi after D'Honaire. On the other hand, if you wanted a third party that might try to off him, Donovan Kaizer's (the Book of Souls) crime ring could go after him.
But the question is, how far will he go to be king of the mountain again? The book that I mention in the timeline poses an interesting possibility, that as it becomes impossible for Dominic to hide his manipulations, could public narrative spin those manipulations as beneficial? Especially if those manipulations do not appear to be selfish, but seem more focused on fighting against other forces of darkness? People under his control may not understand who or what is giving them orders, and if their mysterious puppetmaster guides them inexplicably to, say, thwart the rise of a powerful crime lord :Brain: , then who are they to argue? "Guide us, oh great one!" :lol:
I guess it will depend on your take on Dominic. As originally written in the earlier campaign settings, he was a bad seed, born evil to the core like Inza would later be written. So if you went with this design, there is probably little he wouldn't do.

On the other hand, later sources (primarily Gaz III) played up the effects of not having a strong mother figure in his life. In this circumstance, we might see a contradictory desire to play ringmaster: to find a substitute mother figure in the form of a romantic partner (as partially evidenced by his relationship with the now late in your world Helene DuSuis.) Compensating for lack of a maternal figure might also translate into ensuring good familial relationships in the rest of his family. (In Legacy of the Blood, Angelique and her husband Betrand Schroeder come to him for help getting passage out of Dementlieu. In the more favorable option of their Dread Possibility, Dominic does help them. I imagine this option may be viable because their sincere and earnest coming to him for help stirred a rare altruistic response by stirring his ego.)

So with Bad Seed Dominic option, I would think that Dominic would do ultimately anything in the name of petty sour grapes against those who foiled his plans. On the other hand, a mommy-complex Dominic would be more complicated. In this situation, his control freak tendencies and lustful desires are not totally born of evil and could conceivably provide conflicting goals to just wanting to see the world burn in the face of losing all his power.

Basing past precedent on what he's done in Legacy of Blood, Dominic has arranged several different assassinations in the family simply for disobeying or not fitting the plans he had for them. In addition to being a malicious troller, Dominic is also a great control freak when it comes to controlling those around him.
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

Post by Mistmaster »

Beetwen the canonical Dominics, Mommy-Complex one strike me as the more interesting (I don't really like the concept of bad seed.)
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

Me neither. To say that someone was basically born evil defeats the entire purpose of darklordship IMHO. I've been talking to one of the other SK's about our options to get around the idea that he got to be a DL at 6 years old, but we haven't decided which retcon we prefer. But regardless of how he got the job, he's got it now. If it ever becomes critical, we'll decide how we are getting around it, but we'll probably wait until then.
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

The Lesser Evil wrote:I would probably have a few sympathizers/members who are skilled in intellectual fields, such as the medical arts or pathology. Their agenda could be much more subtle, if, for example, they unleashed food poisoning or other disease on charitable institutions.
Yeah, arson, food poisoning, disease, agitation of the more militant groups, political advocacy against the charities
The two rising stars I'm looking at is Celeste 'd'Honaire-Loverde (profiled in Legacy of Blood) and Germain d'Honaire (the son of Dominic, briefly mentioned in Dominic's entry in Gaz III).
Yes, these are both on my list, too, along with Dominic II, who has had multiple illegitimate children. I'm wondering about what might happen if any of those by-blows wound up having an interest in law enforcement.
If somebody were to engineer an assassination attempt, I would think the Brain would be the most likely candidate. Of the Brain's proxies, Angelique Molière (The Forgotten Children) or Jacques du Almoy (Book of Sacrifices) might both be likely candidates.
True, but then that's only because we don't really know about any of the Brain's other proxies. In the Kara's Daughter's campaign, the Brain was using Angelique against the party while Merilee Markuza was working behind them to gather info on possibly building the brain a golem body. I would really like the assassin to be a new character, or a new development on an old one.
Basing past precedent on what he's done in Legacy of Blood, Dominic has arranged several different assassinations in the family simply for disobeying or not fitting the plans he had for them. In addition to being a malicious troller, Dominic is also a great control freak when it comes to controlling those around him.
I only remember the one assassination attempt, against the Mousel's. But regardless, I like the idea of Dominic as basically addicted to control. I see him much like Kilgrave from Marvel's Jessica Jones, he's been getting his way for so long that he doesn't know how to have a human relationship. With all these family members that he can't just order around, it reminds me of the scene where Kilgrave tries to buy that guys house without using his powers: https://youtu.be/-euUBK7LQXQ
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

Post by Mistmaster »

Sorry for the sidetracking, but Germaine d'Honaire is a legitimate son of Dominic? Did he have him by a convenience marriage from a woman he was not attracted too?
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

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Mistmaster wrote:Sorry for the sidetracking, but Germaine d'Honaire is a legitimate son of Dominic? Did he have him by a convenience marriage from a woman he was not attracted too?
More than one, apparently. Germaine is the youngest of two children by his second wife, but LotB has Dominic II (born in 722), as the oldest of four children by his first wife. So that's six legitimate ones, with who knows how many illegitimate.
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Re: Dementlieu since 760

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DeepShadow of FoS wrote: I only remember the one assassination attempt, against the Mousel's. But regardless, I like the idea of Dominic as basically addicted to control. I see him much like Kilgrave from Marvel's Jessica Jones, he's been getting his way for so long that he doesn't know how to have a human relationship. With all these family members that he can't just order around, it reminds me of the scene where Kilgrave tries to buy that guys house without using his powers: https://youtu.be/-euUBK7LQXQ
I am unfamiliar with the character, but the way I see it is that he might be thought of in outdated Freudian terms (and now in the common lexicon) as "anally retentive", more properly, a control-freak take on Dominic has elements of the obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, the fussy over-attention to detail. (Different from obsessive compulsive disorder that features anxiety-provoking obsessive thoughts and behavioral rituals to temporarily alleviate them.)

The absence/death of mommy instilled in the preternaturally intelligent little Dominic a need for control and certainty (and power to instill that control). Beyond Dominic's personal trauma, we see this need for control in the family patriarchs going all the way back to his grandfather, Germaine d'Honaire the first. (Which sort of makes sense, given his background in psychology and mentalism.) Dominic might be seen as something of a deconstruction of what happens when you have patriarchs of uncontested power making personal plans for other family members down to tiny details. Dominic has a lot of the attention to detail, need for control, and understanding of what makes people tick, though he seems to lack the discipline for formal training or ethical standards of his ancestors. (He's not Lawful, and he has a pretty strong streak of malice, so he's definitely Evil.)

On the other hand, Dominic isn't Chaotic Evil, so perhaps all the mind games he plays isn't just about screwing people for the lols. Rather, what seems like pure chaos is actually his version of establishing a sort of order or control. By keeping everybody else spinning plates, Dominic is asserting control/dominance over their lives. (I might consider the control-freak take on Dominic somewhat similar to certain depictions of Sinestro, whom uses Fear as a weapon to establish his own petty control over the Cosmos.) He ruins you because you're the little toy that won't stand up right in his personal diorama of the universe.

The Brain is Dominic's antithesis because he represents resistance, particularly through the use of illicit channels, somebody who is neither concerned with image (beyond being a feared underworld figure) nor with the appearance of impropriety (the Brain is above such frivolities). The Noble Brotherhood of Assassins is Dominic's antithesis (in a different way) because they use humor as their primary weapon (although Dominic gets his jollies off of playing mind games, he takes himself way too seriously). They defeat, foil, and reveal plans rather than instigate them.

Therefore, I would suggest that somebody whom could put Dominic through the ringer would be somebody who combines elements of both the Brain and the Brotherhood, namely a cunning and manipulative bogeyman underworld figure who takes apart plans and humiliates. I would imagine such a candidate would be somewhat similar to the Nolanverse version of the Joker. Such a character might make for a truly dangerous assassin type whom breaks a person's mind and soul before their bodies. If Dominic survived, it could have a profound impact on his character, perhaps having cataclysmic changes for how Dementlieu is run.
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