Ultimate Ravenloft: Global Mechanics

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Irving the Meek
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Post by Irving the Meek »

I've had a mad-on about how the Vistana have been treated in Ravenloft for a very, very long time. The real world gypsies have been horribly mistreated; making gypsies alien or other does them a huge disservice. Please, let's make them a PC race.

I find that in some cases, especially with "weak" Darklords, the domain is more interesting than the actual Darklord. Nova Vaasa, Mortentshire, and Ividia are particularly good examples. If we can envision a Ravenloft that makes the lands without defining them by their Darklords, we might have something useful.

I would point to the mist-pact warlock as a potential landing point for interesting aspects of Ravenloft that don't have a good home, especially curses and corruption tracks. It's also an awesome class for a Vistana... Darkling as a prestige class, anyone?
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Post by NykylaiHellray »

A thing that does stand out to me, is how some of the lands seem to be a patchwork quilt of oddities which make no sense (like snowlands next to rainforest type oddities).

Also somtimes the size of the demiplane of dread can seem far to cramped and pointless due to its small size.

I suggest maybe spacing out domains, enlarging there size to allow some of these oddities to make more sense.

I mean the dark powers might be evil (well depends on view), but thats no excuse to suck at design.

Another thing I suggest, is maybe people pulled into the world. Forget there previous memories the longer they occupy the world. So they in theroy become natives over time. So they all believe this is where they have always been.

Another idea i suggest is that when people die in the demiplane they become a part of the mists themselves, and eventually reborn. There soul never escaping the purgatory. Recycled throught the years.

In this way I see the mists as the stagnation of souls. The bi product of the prison which is the demiplane. There to me the torment of the damned, the echos of betrayel, and the darkness that hides in the minds of man.

The idea I am heading towards is though the world is still artifical. It appears to be a working world to those who occupy it.

A machine with a perfect facade which hides its workings from those who dare to understand it.

Which is why I support wolfkooks idea of the concentration of power of dark lords, rather then the closing of the borders.

Another thing I suggest is maybe turning the shadow rift to be more akin to a geological rupture in the earth (though I still think this part needs to be rewritten compleatly, though without retconning it per say).


Though I am not saying remove all oddities. They give flavor and are fun. Though in excess they seem to be examples of bad writting and bring down the overall tone of the setting.
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Irving the Meek
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Post by Irving the Meek »

Here's a first-draft suggestion of how we could treat the Darklords going forward in a 4e setting. Note this this alters the canon 3e time line to some degree, but not horribly so.

A "classic", normal Domain of Dread is exactly as WotC describes it in their material - a sealed bubble within the Shadowfell, one that collapses with the death of the Darklord. In ages past, the mortal who would be known as Vecna was consigned to one upon the passing of his mortal shell. Vecna was the first - and only - Darklord to break out of his own prison, and in doing so, he fundamentally altered the rules that govern Darklord and their Domains.

Strahd was the first Darklord to discover and exploit the loophole Vecna placed in the laws of the universe. Under the right circumstances, a Darklord could commute his sentence and transform his prison into place of power... for a price.

The Darklord's Domain becomes a cyst on the material world, a location that colors and stains the character of the land surrounding it. The people who live near the Domain reflect the Darklord's nature; the countryside becomes a mirror of the villain's mind. Within the confines of the Domain proper, the Darklord is at the height of her power.

But once they leave that domain, their power ebbs. If they attempt to travel too far, the immortality their Domain grants them will cease, and they will die. And with the birth of their mortal kingdom comes a host of curses, forever denying the Darklord his heart's desires.

These encysted Domains naturally tend to attract one another. The same laws that draw the Domains together also tend to keep them at arm's length; it is extremely rare for two Darklord's domains to overlap. A Darklord can, however, push into unclaimed territory by performing deeds of wickedness... or even steal the territory of a less potent Darklord. Two Darklords can commit untold blasphemies solely for the purpose of claiming a few small acres.

Islands of Terror remain uncysted, "pure" Domains of Dread. The Core and Islands are encysted upon the Prime Material. In a Ravenloft campaign, in can be presumed that all the world is under the sway of, if not necessarily owned by, a Darklord. Those small places that are not are rare in the extreme.
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Post by WolfKook »

Ok, so far there have been interesting points here that I would like to discuss further. I'll post them here as a project proposal to get feedback:

1. Unlike canon Ravenloft, the world of RLR is a "real" world, which for some reason has started interacting with something dark (The shadowfell for 4E fans, but I guess we would have to create another name for it if we don't want to go in that direction) that has been corrupting it during the last few centuries, creating cysts in the land around the different darklords (Or around the sinkholes of evil?). These cysts have been spreading since the first of these darklords, Strahd Von Zarovich, made a pact that opened the door which allowed this mysterious phenomenon to start. Thus, there are domains of dread, and there are lands free of the dark influence, which struggle trying to keep it from spreading further.

2. Within a domain of dread, the darklord is usually the most powerful evil being, the first to make a pact with the dark powers or the most interesting one for the dark powers, for whatever reason. Once a darklord is chosen, however, other evil beings suitable for the place usually become demilords (Like Puncheron in the Nocturnal Sea Gazetteer, or the demilords of Darkon before the return of Azalin, or the darklords of pocket domains), who usually get smaller sub-domains where they are even more restrained than true darklords (Unless they manage to flee the domain just in time, as Vlad Drakov did in Darkon). Mechanically, that would allow for some domains to absorb others (for example, Darkon could absorb Keening, or Har'Akir could absorb Sebua).

3. In some cases, the dark powers can work retroactively, choosing an already damned being as the darklord of a domain, even though the condemning crime was committed long before the domain's appearance (Thus, Ankhtepot could be a truly Ancient mummy, even though his domain would be absorbed by the mists after Strahd's). Still' there should be some rules to prevent this from going on indifinitely.

4. The interaction between this dark influence and the different planes of existence has started corrupting them, also, creating those stranger domains like the Nightmare Lands and perhaps Nathan's Tyr-Na-Nog (i.e. The Shadow Rift), or Nykylai's elemental planes of dread. Perhaps Bluetspur would also fall into that category.

5. I still need help understanding the border closure. It doesn't seem logical. Would a darklord suddenly acquire the power to close his domain, and know exactly how to use it? I'm still looking for an alternative...

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
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Post by NykylaiHellray »

5. I still need help understanding the border closure. It doesn't seem logical. Would a darklord suddenly acquire the power to close his domain, and know exactly how to use it? I'm still looking for an alternative...
TBH I dont like the idea of border closing much anyway...

But, I guess you could view it as being able to instinctively control the power when they are granted it.

Or maybe as there power grows they gain a slight power over the corrupting forces over the lands. Being able to shape the mists to not close the borders per say, but to make then unnavigable making people lose there way (or vanish, ala stephen kings mist minus the lovecraft style monsters).

As for the making ravenloft a world, it will fix alot of the problems. But I would not discount some of the cannon either. You can keep both grps happy with myths and rumours suggesting both pasts.

As you will have slight problems with charecters like Lord Soth. Unless you want to discount his past from another setting.
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Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

Irving the Meek wrote:I've had a mad-on about how the Vistana have been treated in Ravenloft for a very, very long time. The real world gypsies have been horribly mistreated; making gypsies alien or other does them a huge disservice. Please, let's make them a PC race.
So...to make them a PC race (apart from half-Vistani or Mortu), we'd have to make them balanced, which I guess is what you are talking about with making them less alien? Take away mistwalking, Evil Eye, and the other powers that make them unplayable?

What would we have left?
The Avariel has borrowed wings,
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Irving the Meek
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Post by Irving the Meek »

DeepShadow of FoS wrote:
What would we have left?
A very rich, vibrant culture? I mean, honestly - we know more about how the Vistani live their life than any other culture in Ravenloft. Why should all that material be solely reserved for the DM? It's the culture that really defines the Vistani, not the powers.

Basically, all I'd like to see is the "half" dropped from the "half-Vistani" PC race, and make the evil eye, mistwalking, et al into spells, rituals, or feats only accessible to the elders (i.e., NPCs).
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Post by vipera aspis »

I would have to vote against the vistani as a playable race whole-heartedly. Things begin to loose their peerless and unaccountable nature when brought into the light. This goes double for the light of actual play. Not keeping these elusive gypsies in the dark, tucked away from the prying eyes of players would not only rob these nomads of what makes them who they are but in the long run; it would rob the players of some very memorable and unique games.

If you want to play a gypsy and NOT guff things up, i suggest the gypsy Player Character in DoD. Yes it's in second edition, but converting second to third(or three-point five) is simple and fun. Or just play second edtion.

I guess with converting it to forth edition you could give it some type of lame "hellfire lightning-axe attack that hurts enemies, heals allies and gets you 2 free trial days of World of Warcraft"
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