RLR: Domains looking for a Darklord 1: Mordent

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Who should be the darklord of Reanimated Mordent?

Keep Godefroy as is, with no change
8
29%
Keep Godefroy with a serious retcon to increase his appeal
11
39%
Use another (existing) mordentish character (Please explain)
6
21%
Create a new darklord to fit the domain
3
11%
 
Total votes: 28

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RLR: Domains looking for a Darklord 1: Mordent

Post by WolfKook »

The voting is over, and there's already a base domain list to work with. However, for some of these domains, the attention they got wasn't obtained by their respective darklords, so the question now is, what should we do with those domains? Should we make changes on their DLs? Replace them for someone more interesting?

The first case I want to discuss is Mordent, which was -along with Darkon -one of the most voted domains (8 votes, for a 100% inclusion rating), while its darklord, Wilfred Godefroy, didn't receive that much attention (3 votes for, 2 against, for a 58%).

The question is: Should we keep Godefroy as the darklord of Reanimated Mordent? If so, what changes should we make to make him more appealing and interesting? If we choose to discard him, who should take his place? An existing character or one created just to fit the domain? If you'd choose an existing character, who should it be? Otherwise, what traits would you give to that character?
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Post by Irving the Meek »

When I think of Mordent, I think of the England of the Bronte sisters - especially Wuthering Heights. The Hound of the Baskervilles is also a strong inspiration.

While I think we need The Ghost as an archetypal darklord, Godefroy doesn't cut it. His reach is too short, and his back story isn't compelling.

As of right now, Mordent is more interesting as the home of the Weathermay-Foxglove sisters than the home of Godefroy.

So... with that in mind, I vote for a new Darklord cut from whole cloth. Is can think of two characters from fiction that sound like good seeds -

- The Hound of the Baskervilles, in some incarnation. A werewolf is the obvious choice, but we have several of those on our plate. Still, we've decided that Timothy's not strong, so maybe here's a place to insert a strong werewolf Darklord.

- Heathcliff, from Wuthering Heights. My wife likes this idea, and I can see some strength here as well. I definitely need to reread my Bronte before I could attempt that one, though. Still, it's a very intriguing challenge.

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Post by Rotipher of the FoS »

One place where Gaz III kind of blew it, IMO, was that it didn't take the time to describe the evil of the House on Gryphon Hill effectively. Not Godefroy (whom it salvaged somewhat from lameness), but that older, malignant presence which had cursed Gryphon Manor since it was built. If anything is more "Gothic" than a ghost, it's a cursed estate that dooms all fools who dare to dwell therein. :twisted:

If we want to preserve Mordent's image and style, yet dethrone Godefroy from lordship, I think that the House (or the phantasmagorum that resides in it) should be elevated to darklord. Godefroy can be retained as its lackey and mouthpiece, but the real threat is the supernatural malice which saturates every board, shingle, and nail of the manor.


(Granted, I may only feel this way because I've been watching Estate of Panic on SciFi lately. But hey, what DM wouldn't love to trap PCs in a house that's trying to kill them? :wink: )
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Post by Irving the Meek »

While I agree with you that the house, per se, could make a very interesting Darklord, I think that an evil like that should be its own pocket domain - if nothing else, it lets you seal the borders and lock people in the house. And we've still got one of the core problems of Mordent - how does an evil house dominate an entire country?

The more I reread Wuthering Heights, the more I'm convinced that Heathcliff would make an awesome Darklord. He commits more than enough atrocities in the original book to earn him the status; he's half-Gypsy; he may or may not be diabolic in nature. And he plays right into the Weathermays as a storyline. I'll try writing him up today or tomorrow when I have time.
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Post by Rotipher of the FoS »

How can a mad scientist who stays in his lab all the time, and isn't even the secular ruler, dominate an entire domain? Or a Black Widow who never strays from her grand balls and elegant dinners, to whom the countryside and commoners only exist as a notation on her tax rolls? Or a lich who's so busy trying to bust out of his domain that he lets his minions run the country in his name, and who, if he ever does deign to notice someone, is so subtle in his manipulations that they won't even realize he's doing so? Every darklord's influence over his or her domain is circumscribed in some way -- indeed, it needs to be, else PCs will be powerless to oppose them -- and lack of mobility is simply a physical demonstration of a constraint they all share, literally or figuratively.

Besides, not every darklord should "dominate" his domain, IMO. In some classic cases (Mordenheim, Meredoth) they just plain don't care about doing so; in others, not being omnipotent (Anhktepot, Harkon Lukas) is a part of their curses. There ought to be a place or two out there where the darklord's influence is constrained enough that heroes can thrive, and not be rooted out, chased off, or maliciously exploited by the BBEG.

Mordent's traditional role in a Ravenloft campaign is as a place where heroes can reside in relative safety; the game-setting as a whole benefits from having just such a haven, for PCs as well as Van Richten and his successors. Even if Godefroy himself is too drab to keep as darklord, I think retaining that motif for Mordent is necessary, both to preserve what people like about that domain, and to counter Ravenloft's negative image as a "killer-DM setting".

So keeping the House on Gryphon Hill as the fixed focal point for evil in Mordent (even if it's a far darker, older evil than Godefroy) takes some of the pressure off PCs, allowing the domain to remain a refuge of sorts ... Ravenloft's one genuine "point of light", to use 4E's turn of phrase. That doesn't mean the House needs to be totally inert -- think of the tragedies the cursed residence in The Grudge caused, all over Tokyo, without ever budging from its address -- but DMs should have one domain where they don't have to come up with convoluted excuses for why PCs haven't been squashed by the local darklord, long ago.


I'm not saying that Heathcliff isn't an interesting model for a Ravenloft NPC, BTW -- he'd make a good darkling, for one -- but IMO, a character as ambiguous as Heathcliff could be more effective as an enigmatic, free-roaming troublemaker, a la the Gentleman Caller.
Last edited by Rotipher of the FoS on Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by WolfKook »

I kind of agree with Roti (I've learned my lesson since last time :wink:) in that the House of Gryphon Hill, or whatever malignant presence resides there, should be the darklord, with powers similar to those of the hotel in the Shining.

Gaz III already portrayed the house as kind of a sinkhole where all souls in Mordent end up being attracted to (Which creates an interesting link to the original adventure), but the problem Irving points to keeps hanging from the roof: How can a House have influence over an entire domain? Perhaps it can somehow possess those who dwell within its walls, perhaps it has Godefroy as its lackey... But there's still something missing.

Maybe the house's story is deeply intertwined with that of the Weathermay's, so that the presence in the house has some influence over the politics of the whole domain? And what would the house be up to?

(Then again, I haven't read Wuthering Heights, so I don't know enough about the character of Heathcliff... And yes, I know I've been missing a great novel).
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Post by Irving the Meek »

It's been a long time since I've read Wuthering Heights myself, but the Wiki reminded me... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathcliff ... g_Heights)

That being said, I'm rapidly being sold on Gryphon Hill as the Darklord. (Although calling a house the Darklord has some implications we need to answer - is the house being punished? What is the house's torment? - but those can be overcome. )

As for a spokesperson - my wife has rightly pointed out that the "mouthpiece" of the house has to be well-chosen, or it's going to wreck the entire setting fast. Goedfroy might still not cut it. I can see a variety of ghosts serving that purpose, really.

Consider this option: Every single soul in Mordentshire(or worse yet, Ravenloft) has to pass through the house to leave this plane. Few, if any, souls actually make it through the house. Some get sent on errands for the house - they haunt other places in Mordentshire. Some get eaten. Most get denied, and wander.

This provides a strong McGuffin for the PCs. "Kill" the house, and you've freed every soul in Ravenloft. (And you may also be in possession of the one reliable gate out of Ravenloft, if this is a weekend in hell.) It also give the house "reach" - it's responsible in some fashion for *every* ghost in Mordentshire, thus giving us a "badguy of the week" plot structure a la Buffy. And since the house's desires are inscrutable, the DM has license to use its hauntings as much or as little as he desires - there's no need for a rhyme or reason behind them.

Um... maybe I just sold myself on it.

In any event. Heathcliff would make for a strong NPC, and maybe another homeless Domain could use him... I'll write him up just for the sake of it.
Last edited by Irving the Meek on Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Isabella »

If you want the Darklord to be actively scheming or be heavily involved in Core politics, I don't think the house is going to fit the bill. But if you want it affecting the entire domain then you might find evidence that it already is - at least, something is. Something about Mordenshire is very different than most domains in the Core. Despite the fact that most people die peacefully, or at least lacking the emotion to rise again as a ghost, the domain is covered in spirits. In fact, it almost seems like it's impossible to rest peacefully there. Why else does Godefroy assume that convalescing nobles who die of sickness or old age will be sucked into his house?

There is also the matter of the fall and decline of most the noble houses, the prevalence of family curses, and the hounds on the fen who hunt people down for their crimes (or even the crimes of their ancestors). I'm not sure if you'd call the house the driving force of whatever is going on in Mordent, but it's certainly the place where it's most evident.
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Post by DasSoviet »

Good idea with Heathcliff, Irving the Meek... however, the darklord should fit the domain, and vice versa... and though I can see where someone like Heathcliff could fit, I believe he would likely be better placed as the Darklord of a more urban domain, such as Pardion (in the place of Sodo)

Or, of course, we could revise Mordent to be a more urbane land to fit it's new darklord... Make Mordetshire more like Liverpool... a bustling centre of trade (particularly of the slave variety) and industry... however, that would be changing the entire theme of the entire domain, and I'm not quite certain we quite want to go there at the moment...

So as it stands now, I agree that the House on Gryphon Hill would make an excellent darklord... passive, yet at the same time omnipresent. It should become a little more active within it's domain, via minions or possessions or something along those lines. Or, to build upon what Isabella said, it could be one of the driving forces behind the decline of Mordent, being a massive sinkhole or beacon of evil, beyond even the strength of Castle Ravenloft itself. Just thinking about it, I'm getting some Diablo vibes... maybe something is chained beneath Gryphon Hill, a la Mephisto from Diablo II. It's prision is weakening, and it is now able to reach out beyond and begin interfering with the domain. So, while initially it may be extremely passive, as time, and your campaign, progresses, it begins interfering more and more with Mordent, and later on the entire core. Kinda like Gwydion... but more involved, more accessible.
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Post by Irving the Meek »

If the House is a weakening prison, then we're not breaking the rules of Ravenloft too badly. If the House is the Darklord, then we kind of are - the House isn't really being tortured for its crimes. I can see the House attaining Darklord status simply due to its status as the largest sinkhole of evil ever created in Ravenloft - it's a Darklord not due to a choice by the Dark Powers, but because of the metaphysical laws of Ravenloft itself.

That's perfectly all right, mind you - it lends itself to the same rough plot structure as the "Buffy" TV show. You've got a mega-sinkhole instead of a hellmouth; supernatural baddies and ghosts naturally show up around it, either because the House generates them or attracts them. Of course, because the house is semi-sentient, things are a little trickier. I can see a wicked and inexperienced warlock or two showing up at the house, thinking he's found a resource to control. The house probably regards these idiots as light snacks.

I'd disagree about Heathcliff being urban - he's consistently described as "wild" and loving to roam the moors. If anything, I'd see him statted as a ranger with a smidge of barbarian, possible with a diabolic feat or two from the Book of Nine Hells or a similar resource.
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Post by Lucien Doomdark »

Perhaps the House can be the Darklord?

In the old AD&D adventure, and the v3.5 stuff, it's strongly implied that Godefroy while being an unpleasant and evil man, wouldn't have been involved in Ravenloft had Strahd and Azalin not been trying to escape/torment the Alchemist who in turn may have been responsible for creating Strahd/awakening Ravenloft.

As the focus for the experiments that dragged Mordentshire into Ravenloft, perhaps its actually the logical extension of a sinkhole as some have suggested? Imagine the House not being evil in itself but the focus of every evil spirit in Mordentshire trapped in some kind twisted schizophrenic hive-mind with divergent personalities battling for control and Godefroy could be one of these. Half the reason, Mordent is so quiet is because most of the time the House's ghosts sit and burble to themselves. They are the Darklord.

If the PCs attract the attention of the House?

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Post by Guzrath »

I like the ideas that have been tossed around. I'm not very familiar with Mordent. I've read the books and all, but have never fleshed it out, since I never got the chance to do anything with it.

So I'm giving ideas based on what I know and previous posts.
- Heathcliff, from Wuthering Heights.
This is mentioned a few times. However,
I have never read the book and seeing the pile of books I still have to read I don't think it likely in the near future. So I can't comment on this.
If we want to preserve Mordent's image and style, yet dethrone Godefroy from lordship, I think that the House (or the phantasmagorum that resides in it) should be elevated to darklord. Godefroy can be retained as its lackey and mouthpiece, but the real threat is the supernatural malice which saturates every board, shingle, and nail of the manor.
This idea I support. Having the house as a DL and Godefroy it's extension into the domain. Reading some of the posts the idea of "minions and/or servants came up a few times.
I would propose that the House has several"servants" who work for it or under it's control. I think it might also be a nice touch to have it's "extensions" have their own problems. Like Godefroy is short tempered, a Jeckyll and Hyde type can be "reintroduced" under control of the house. (Seeing that Hiregaard and Malken are not very popular and might not make it) who obviously also has it's own problems.
This might be it's own way to influence outcomes in the domain and might be it's curse. The fact that he it can only control very unbalanced and less reliable characters.
Mordent's traditional role in a Ravenloft campaign is as a place where heroes can reside in relative safety; the game-setting as a whole benefits from having just such a haven, for PCs as well as Van Richten and his successors. Even if Godefroy himself is too drab to keep as darklord, I think retaining that motif for Mordent is necessary, both to preserve what people like about that domain, and to counter Ravenloft's negative image as a "killer-DM setting".
I agree that there should be such a place as a "safe haven" (as far as that can actually exist in Ravenloft), but that might not be because the lack of control over the domain. And there are other domains which can have the same feeling. Lamordia and Dementlieu are both domains I feel, can function as a sort of safe haven.
As I suggested earlier, having "servants" under it's control who suffer from their own shortcomings, make it's influence limited and very much dependant. Godefroy might lose his patience during a "quest" for it's master and thus foil the plan.
I don't like the idea that Mordent is a complete safe haven. The fact that the new DL is limited in it's influence, should result in a false sense of security, which may or may not be exploited by the GM at that moment.
Perhaps it can somehow possess those who dwell within its walls, perhaps it has Godefroy as its lackey...
Nice :D
Maybe the house's story is deeply intertwined with that of the Weathermay's, so that the presence in the house has some influence over the politics of the whole domain? And what would the house be up to?
Ooohhh :D
Even the Weathermay's must have a "Black Sheep" in the family...... and, to continue on my previous thoughts, that person has it's own curse or other shortcoming, which makes the House's control again limited, but definitely intertwined with one of the ruling families.
Consider this option: Every single soul in Mordentshire(or worse yet, Ravenloft) has to pass through the house to leave this plane. Few, if any, souls actually make it through the house. Some get sent on errands for the house - they haunt other places in Mordentshire. Some get eaten. Most get denied, and wander.
I wouldn't go for the whole plane, I think just Mordent would be good enough and would keep with the ghostly atmosphere of Mordent.
the "mouthpiece" of the house has to be well-chosen, or it's going to wreck the entire setting fast
I agree, although I would vote for several "mouthpieces", again in continuation of what I proposed.
"Kill" the house, and you've freed every soul in Ravenloft. (And you may also be in possession of the one reliable gate out of Ravenloft, if this is a weekend in hell.)
An important angle to have for the non-Ravenloft campaign :)
Or, to build upon what Isabella said, it could be one of the driving forces behind the decline of Mordent, being a massive sinkhole or beacon of evil, beyond even the strength of Castle Ravenloft itself.
Hmmm, i'm not very familiar with Lovecraft, but for me it has that feel a bit if you can use it subtly. It would also explain a lot; like Isabella mentioned: the decline of the noble houses, actually the decline in general.

There are a lot of comments on the House as a DL. Is there someone who disagrees?
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Post by Guzrath »

Oops, double post.
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Post by Rotipher of the FoS »

Guzrath wrote:
Even the Weathermay's must have a "Black Sheep" in the family...... and, to continue on my previous thoughts, that person has it's own curse or other shortcoming, which makes the House's control again limited, but definitely intertwined with one of the ruling families.
Well, there's always those nasty old rumors about the Weathermays that preceded George's rise as a hero. If the House is indeed home to a long-standing evil presence, its dark influence looming over the domain, then it's possible one of Jules' remote ancestors really did sacrifice his or her daughter to its evil. Perhaps not for wealth, as legend attests, but for immortality.... :twisted:
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Post by WolfKook »

Wow! I love how the concept is developing! (And I'm glad about this entire project just because of that :wink:)

...Perhaps the destiny of the house is deeply intertwined with that of the remaining Weathermays?

I cannot wait for this domain's writeup!
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