Ravenloft Reanimated Game of Conquest

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Nathan of the FoS
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Post by Nathan of the FoS »

Igor the Henchman wrote: As the Smelly Arm Pit of Ravenloft, Nosos is the epitome of the "Urban Hell" theme. As such, I think it has already conquered Nova Vaasa and taken its stuff.
I disagree on this point; I think Nova Vaasa is a kind of compare/contrast between rural and urban, while Nosus is "extreme urban".
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Post by Igor the Henchman »

Nathan of the FoS wrote:
Igor the Henchman wrote: As the Smelly Arm Pit of Ravenloft, Nosos is the epitome of the "Urban Hell" theme. As such, I think it has already conquered Nova Vaasa and taken its stuff.
I disagree on this point; I think Nova Vaasa is a kind of compare/contrast between rural and urban, while Nosus is "extreme urban".
Granted. Well, I meant the "urban" part of Nova Vaasa, at least.
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Post by Nathan of the FoS »

Returning to a previous point:

Ravenloft has domains which are more or less empty (Forlorn and Keening, I am looking at you!). It makes sense to me that they would be considered parts of neighboring countries with real power centers. (In that way it would be like, say, the Amazon basin and Brazil. The central government of Brazil doesn't "control" the deep Amazon in any effective way, but on a map it's part of Brazil.)

So, mapmakers make Keening part of Darkon and Forlorn part of Barovia.

Similarly, the Wolfwood (Verbrek, Invidia, Kartakass, Forlorn) is a big swath of territory with no central government--just local strongmen (or women, as for Ms. Aderre). I would just label it "The Wolfwood" and leave it without political boundaries.
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Post by Nathan of the FoS »

Returning to Nosus/Nova Vaasa--one of the reasons I like separating the political maps from the domain maps is that then you could put, say, Nosus in northern Nova Vaasa. Malus Scleris is still darklord of the city, but now he has to deal with having an overlord who he is nominally responsible to. And Othmar Bolshnik gets a city that is always causing him trouble for some reason.

I would put Paridon in Dementlieu--maybe on the border with Mordent.

I am not in favor of combining Dementlieu and Richemulot, but I would like using the "Ricoba" version of Richemulot from Andrew Wyatt's site, since Dementlieu and Richemulot are very similar in flavor. (You had probably better get permission from him to use his version of Arkandale, too).

WRT Verbrek--IMC the idea was that the Timothys sailed off into the Mists and founded Arkandale; the father/son fight in the Core was between Bakholis and his (totally non-canon) son, and when Bakholis died his domain was split into Verbrek (ruled by his son) and Invidia (ruled by Gabby). Yan Bakholis (the son) hated his father, but no-one is going to kill a Bakholis and go unavenged--also, he has to prove he's as much man as his father was by reconquering the territory that once belonged to Bakholis Sr.

Since Alfred Timothy is going to be off in Arkandale, I kinda like this solution for "what to do with Verbrek". YMMV.
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Post by Igor the Henchman »

I very much like the name "Wolfwood" for a possible Verbrek-Kartakass combination. I still need to be convinced how Invidia fits in, though. Aside from being heavily forested, it never had much in common with Verbrek at all.

Could you remind me of the main themes of Ricoba and the New Arkandale, please?

I'm very suspicious of separating political border maps from domain border maps. It would add a big new layer of complexity, and I don't see what the benefits would be, game-wise.
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Post by NykylaiHellray »

Well for the city idea I had.....at the moment I am not to sure.

It was more of an idea I have yet to develop as I was/am to carried away on my contest entries.

But with your idea you could have the living and death one constantly vying for control of the other.

Kinda like a silent hill effect, where people can somtimes be pulled into the shadow/death version of the city.


My idea for a living necropolis would be a society where different funeral companies battle for control.
Some have become rotten and obsessed with money, so in some canels dead bodies clog the drains. Other parts they take there job seriously and the proper respect for the dead is taken in the upmost.

But as I said its an idea I havent developed yet. The main thing I wanted too do is make it a living city but keep the theme of death. But remove the impratical aspect of it.


In that respects your idea I say works better.
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Post by Lanus »

Ok guys; at this point we might need to start rethinking the way darklords work.

I mean, for Strahd, Azalin and some other powerful darklords, the whole "the Darklord is the Land and the Land is the Darklord" works pretty nice, but for some like Godefroy well, it doesn't fit too well; specially if we want to make the core and everything more coherent size and population wise.

I propose three things:

1. The are political borders as player information: Barovia, Nova Vassa, etc. Sometimes the domains coincide exactly with this political borders (Darkon, Barovia), sometimes there are several domains inside the same political border (the eventual Richemulot-Dementlieu fusion might have two regions/provinces) and a domain doesn't have to cover a political border (Godefroy's domain would be the Gryphon Hill area or even Mordentshire, but the whole Mordent is way too big and doesn't have to be under the influence of some darklord, there's enough dangers in the beaches and the forests already)

2. Some regular darklord abilities should be considered part of the personal pwer of powerful darklords. I see no need for Falkov, Helena Faithold or Malken to suddenly feel the presence of a demon or a paladin. Its not part of their theme.

3. We could take a serious look at the location of some of the real world counterparts of the domains to more or less make them fit together. In my opinion Dementileu conquers Mordent and Richemulot becoming one country with three regions. Paridon should be an island close by and conquer Forlorn as a nearby and very inhospitable island. Somewhere south of Forlorn and east of Dementlieu should be Barovia with the Balinoks reaching south towards Nova Vassa and even further south to Hazlan. The wolfwood can be somewhere in the the east or the south of the Balinoks, a smaller forest nearby would contain Nidala and the Shadow-domains. These are some random thoughts at the top of my head, and have no clue where to put Darkon, Invidia or Falkovnia, yet.

Well, those are my two cents
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Post by DasSoviet »

Igor the Henchman wrote:Could you remind me of the main themes of Ricoba and the New Arkandale, please?
Ricoba is Medieval Spain, with the tension between the "Three Faiths", fear of the infernal, and mechanizations of the merchant families

" This is Ricoba, friend, the golden edge of civilization is this world of Mists. Forbidden magic tempts those whose faith is weak, and in the darkest recesses of the labyrinthine cities, unclean creatures lurk. The growing power of the Reniego family may signal the end of the fragile balance between the Three Great Faiths, and the coming of a terrible plague . . . "

"The native faith of Ricoba is actually a triumvirate of religions, colloquially referred to as the Three Faiths. All follow the same god, a magnificent conqueror known as Salvador. All are theologically lawful, although practitioners may be of nearly any alignment. Bitter contention exists between the Faiths, however, over matters of dogma and interpretation of their mutual sacred text, the Thorns of Redemption."

"If anything unites the Three Faiths, it is their fear of all things infernal. Followers of the Faiths often refer to the demonic as a collective malevolent force known as the Pit. Ricobans are absolutely terrified of the Pit's influence in their daily lives. Many of the Three Faiths' practices are directed at preventing the attention of the minions of evil."


While Arkendale is fear of the woods, with slavery mixed in for good measure

"Arkandale. A land of dark plantations, sunken riverboats, and howls in the night. Return to a forgotten domain, where the Old South meets the Demiplane of Dread, completely revised and packed with nasty surprises. What about that nasty ol' Alfred Timothy, you ask? Why, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn . . . "


"Arkandalens are an odd and strangely intimidating lot. On the surface, their demeanor ranges from the genteel facade of the plantation families to the genial, rough edges of the poor folk. Strangers are examined with interest and treated to a deliberate hospitality. Yet Arkandalens can be incredibly suspicious and insular. They seem to have a tension about them, as if they are all struggling to keep something hidden. Despite their superficially friendly nature, most Arkandalens view foreigners as potential troublemakers at best or unholy influences at worst."

"The status of slaves is abysmally low. Simply put, they are considered property, to be used and abused at the leisure of their masters. Life is universally harsh for slaves, characterized by ceaseless toil in the plantation fields. Freed slaves are unheard of in Arkandale, although a handful of "fugitive" slaves lurk in the darkest reaches of the woodlands. Slavery is vital to the Arkandale economy, and so revolt is always on the minds of the Arkandalens, particularly the plantation owners."


Looking this over... as someone who really enjoyed Valachan and von Kharkov... mayhaps we have New Arkandale take over Valachan... the Valachi are the only 'dark-skinned' folk of the Core, so perhaps Valachan existed as a seperate nation in the past which was conquered by the Arkandalens, and it's people enslaved. That gives Arkandale a coast, which is always good for an Ol' South domain, it gives an origin for the slave populace, aaaand, perhaps... werepuma rebellion, secretly funded by that freeborn Valachi of noble-bearing, Eric Kharkov. ;)

And on the topic of Nosos and Pardion... I think that the idea from QtR II for the Zherisian Cluster works by and far the best... even if we don't have Timor, make Pardion the capitol, and Nosos the surrounding lands. Part of the Enlightened Republic of Zherisia, but separate domains. As for it's location... I would be wont to place it where Markovia sits now... great big island off Lamordia, rival in naval power to Darkon and industrial might to Dementlieu. Viva Britiania... I mean Zherisia... yeah, that's right...
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Post by Lucien Doomdark »

I'm starting to get a little confused and while I don't wish to step on WolfKook's toes...I need a little clarification. So I've listed what's already been mentioned and where it stands in the present.

Darkon kills Keening and takes its stuff
Proposed by Nathan of the FOS, Seconded and as yet, Carried.

Nidala, Avonleigh & Shadowborn Manor merging
Proposed by WolfKook, Seconded and as far as I can make out, Carried.

The Nightmare Lands kills Vechor and takes its stuff
Proposed by WolfKook, Seconded and Carried.

Tepest gets to keep Castle Island's stuff
Proposed by WolfKook and Sustained.


Others still to be decided

Arkandale kills Verbrek and takes its stuff
Proposed by WolfKook

Arkandale kills Verbrek and Invidia and goes off to hang out with Souragne et al
Proposed by Nathan of the FOS

These two haven't attracted much...I've also seen a proposal to link Arkandale with Valachan which would make some sense. I vote on combining Arkandale with Verbrek, but I'm still not convinced by Invidia's use as a domain at all. I back the second but not the geographical shift.

Avonleigh, Nidala etc all kill Tepest and take its stuff
Proposed by Nathan of the FOS.
Some concerns here...especially with the Darklords and the differing flavours of the Domains despite their connection through Belanus. I would suggest going the whole hog and combining Sithicus rather than Tepest and placing the Avonleigh cluster beyond the Wolfwood.

Har'Akir kills Sebua and takes its stuff
Proposed by WolfKook
Needs one more vote. I give it mine.

Dementlieu kills Richemulot and takes its stuff
Proposed by Igor the Henchman
Still needs to be ratified; issues with Jacqueline Renier vs. Dominic d'Honaire although the theme of trading 'love for power' seems to have emerged. In particular, Igor the Henchman's comments regarding a rivalry would colour the domains too.

Others with comments

Necropolis
While there is a consensus that the current domain is unplayable with its killing aura, there's a little debate as to what to do with both the domain and the Darklord. So far the Mortician's Guild seems quite popular with Il Aluk being warred over by competing clean-up crews perhaps with Death as a faded presence fighting back.

The Paridon Problem
There have been a number of proposals: combining Paridon with Nova Vaasa, combining Paridon with Nosos or collating the Shining Bay into one entity a la QtR. No real consensus. Some have suggested placing it in Dementlieu or Mordent to give more of an impetus in the Core. Another suggestion has been to have it conquer Forlorn as an off-shore island.


Hope this helps...
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Post by Lanus »

Lucien Doomdark wrote:
Avonleigh, Nidala etc all kill Tepest and take its stuff
Proposed by Nathan of the FOS.
Some concerns here...especially with the Darklords and the differing flavours of the Domains despite their connection through Belanus. I would suggest going the whole hog and combining Sithicus rather than Tepest and placing the Avonleigh cluster beyond the Wolfwood.
How about having two great forests in the core? One could be the primal forest, dangerous for the awful beasts that stalk the night. This could be the "wolfwood" for arkandale and verbrek, the side of the wolfwood who collides with a religious-themed domain (nova vassa?) could be verbrek and the other arkandale.

The other forest could be the fey forest of myth and magic, where children get kidnapped, ghost torment the living and ancient kings forged dark pacts with terrible entities. The shadowborn domains and tepest could be here, Tepestani having to fear not only the hags but the ghostly manor and the children bedstories of a dragon that lives deep withing the forest, very deep.

On a kinda unrelated note, if we're going partially with the 4E route, having the elves and eladrin as fey creatures kinda gives the whole tepest elf burning thing a lot more sense; they're wrong anyway, but wrong in a moral way a not in a "lol elf have pointy ears" kinda way
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Post by WolfKook »

Lucien Doomdark wrote:Hope this helps...
Helped a lot, and doesn't feel like you're stepping on my toes. Thanks for the clarification. It was already needed, as Nathan had already pointed out. So, what strategical moves haven't I voted for yet?

Arkandale/Verbrek taking over Invidia. I still don't see it, thematically speaking, but I'm still not against it, though.

Arkandale with Valachan. With Isabella's twists of making Vallachan more spanish in flavor, it could start creating an interesting thematical axis with certain fan-made domains out there (Mictlan, Nueva Aragona, San Bartolome). Plus, the "war of the lycanthropes" seems interesting (A little too "Werewolf the Apocalypse", but it could work). I'm still uncertain, though, and for now, I'll leave this vote blank.

Paridon joining Dementlieu. I see them both working together, and the inclusion of doppelgangers would add another layer of complexity to what's becoming a very rich domain... However, I would like to keep them separated, as I see Paridon as a counterweight to Port A'Lucine, and having both on the same domain would make Dementlieu too powerful.

Kartakass and Verbrek: I see them working, especially since I remember a post some time ago when someone (Isabella, perhaps?) suggested that the wolfweres should be the "real" lycanthropes, while Alfred's werewolves would be infected, "false" lycanthropes. That would translate into a war of pureblooded vs. mix-blooded which would create an excellent (And disturbing) metaphor for things that have happened in the RW. My vote goes for it.

Nidala and Sithicus: Wow! Adding elves to the mix in Nidala? I like it (Also, adding a mysterious dark knight :wink: as a counterweight to Elena seems interesting). Tell me more! :) (I vote for it)

Nova Vaasa absorbing Nosos: Could be, but I'm not particularly inclined to vote for it.

Paridon and Timor: I have never been a fan of Timor, and I don't like the idea of it making it to "canon" RLR, so I'll vote against it.

BTW, Igor... I think your ideas for Dementlieu/Richemulot are great! My vote's reaffirmed. :wink:
Last edited by WolfKook on Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WolfKook »

I share Igor's concerns for the division between domain boundaries and political boundaries. I know the feudal system allows that, but it would create an extra level of complexity that I guess would only create confusion, and I, personally, would like to keep it simple.

OTOH, we might just as well use the idea of pocket domains, which would function just as well... Using Nathan's example, Nosos would be a pocket domain inside Nova Vaasa. If we ever made a "RLR Gazetteer", we would not mention both domains as different entities, but would have an entry about Nova Vaasa, and Nosos -with its particularities -would be mentioned in the "Sites of Interest" section.

The permisions would be one of the hardest parts of the project, and I have to say that it's one that worries me a little, as we're trying to get several fan-made domains into the mix, and I don't know if all the people involved would be available, or interested, and depending on the results, the map of RLR would change a lot. The subject is on the project map, though, and it would be addressed once the final domain roster has been got (And that'll probably less than a month from now).

I understand Lanus's proposition of looking at the RW model to shape RLR. However, we should be careful and don't take it too far, or we would end with a Gothic Earth.
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Post by WolfKook »

So, the following changes has mostly been settled, unless there are voices agains them:
  • Keening becoming a pocket domain inside Darkon.
  • Sebua becoming part of Har'Akir.
  • Avonleigh becoming part of Nidala.
  • Vechor becoming a part of the Nightmare lands.
  • Castle Island remaining within Tepest.
So, what's left on the table?
  • Necropolis remaining inside Darkon: 2 votes for it, and none against. The main problem here is how to make it, but there have been several interesting ideas in discussion.
  • Kartakass absorbing parts of Verbrek: Again, 2 votes for it, and none against (Would like to hear what others have to say about this one).
  • Nidala absorbing Sithicus: 2 votes for it, and none against (I guess this could be controversial. Any opinions?).
  • Nova Vaasa including Nosos: two votes for it, none against.
  • Dementlieu absorbing Richemulot: Two votes for it, and one against it. An interesting proposal by Igor the Henchman.
  • Nidala merging with Tepest: A controversial proposal by Nathan.
  • Sanguinia merging with Vorostokov: two votes for it, and two votes against.
  • Several options for Paridon (Joining Dementlieu or Nova Vaasa, merging with Nosos or Timor): Same number of votes for and against them. It would seem the options for Paridon are pretty controversial...
Finally, there are two proposals which haven't been voted on yet:
  • The fusion of Verbrek/Arkandale with Invidia
  • The merging of New Arkandale and Old Valachan
So, the political boundaries shift and reacommodate, almost as if we were having a Second Conjunction. How will the map look like in the end?
Last edited by WolfKook on Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Lucien Doomdark »

WolfKook wrote:
Lucien Doomdark wrote:Hope this helps...
Helped a lot, and doesn't feel like you're stepping on my toes. Thanks for the clarification. It was already needed, as Nathan had already pointed out. So, what strategical moves haven't I voted for yet?

Nidala and Sithicus: Wow! Adding elves to the mix in Nidala? I like it (Also, adding a mysterious dark knight :wink: as a counterweight to Elena seems interesting). Tell me more! :) (I vote for it)
Well, I never really liked Soth and Sithicus. He always seemed a bit too much like Strahd pining for 'love'. However, given Ravenloft's history of Fey-cism ( :roll: I crack myself up), and the need for a Black Knight archetype in RLR, it seems like a good fit. It was brewing on my mind a great deal as I don't particularly find Inza Kulchevich particularly interesting nor do I think Azreal Dak has anything worthwhile to offer. She's a shadow and he's just a rampaging monster with no real tragedy (psychotic dwarf).

Rather than re-introducing Soth, Elena offers a convincing motivation as someone who has descended into militant violent extremism, has a good reason to dislike elves/eladrin and I believe is an interesting character in her own right. She crusades across her lands in the name of Belanus, much like Dak does in the present canon Sithicus, although for different reasons.

If we wanted to add Tepest to the mix, we could combine the Inquisition with Wynn attempting to reign in Elena who he thinks has lost her way. Perhaps, there is a mentor/student relationship between the two?

An interesting geographical twist would be to back Sithicus into the Wolfwood keeping them hemmed to act as a buffer against the encroaching lycanthropes?

I think it needs work has potential. I've also gone off topic...oops.
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Post by WolfKook »

Lucien Doomdark wrote:I've also gone off topic...oops.
You haven't. It's not only about the changes per se, but also to discuss how we envision them. :wink:
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