Darklords of the New Age: Comments thread

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Rotipher of the FoS
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Post by Rotipher of the FoS »

Checco wrote:I must confess that Chiara desiring the love of another woman is an idea that we did not think about (we decided in early stages that she would have been firmly straight).
Straight is fine, and even preferable given what she was designed to do. But that doesn't mean she can't crave a female confidante: someone to talk to, spend time with, unload her complaints about men to, etc. It'd be entirely appropriate and respectable for such a high-status lady to have a companion/lady-in-waiting/duenna/whatever in the household.

She has contempt for both the men seeing her as a sex toy and the women who cannot match her beauty and powers (and would desire to be in Chiara's position of 'the most beautiful').
Most women, you're right: they'd probably seem either undeserving or like rivals to a bit*h like Chiara. But someone who's not nearly as sexy or ambitious, yet is smart and likeable and content with her lesser status, might make a good friend ... not to mention, offering a contrasting POV to Baccio's enforced social-climbing. After all, if her plain, deferential lady-in-waiting seems consistently happier than all those snobs Chiara hobnobs with, that'd go a long way to undermining the golem's previous indoctrination in social superiority uber alles.

Hmmmm... perhaps Chiara did have such a confidante once, only Baccio had her quietly killed, to prevent his golem from being "corrupted" by silly ideas like being satisfied with one's life. :twisted:
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Post by Checco »

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:
Checco wrote:I must confess that Chiara desiring the love of another woman is an idea that we did not think about (we decided in early stages that she would have been firmly straight).
Straight is fine, and even preferable given what she was designed to do. But that doesn't mean she can't crave a female confidante: someone to talk to, spend time with, unload her complaints about men to, etc. It'd be entirely appropriate and respectable for such a high-status lady to have a companion/lady-in-waiting/duenna/whatever in the household.

She has contempt for both the men seeing her as a sex toy and the women who cannot match her beauty and powers (and would desire to be in Chiara's position of 'the most beautiful').
Most women, you're right: they'd probably seem either undeserving or like rivals to a bit*h like Chiara. But someone who's not nearly as sexy or ambitious, yet is smart and likeable and content with her lesser status, might make a good friend ... not to mention, offering a contrasting POV to Baccio's enforced social-climbing. After all, if her plain, deferential lady-in-waiting seems consistently happier than all those snobs Chiara hobnobs with, that'd go a long way to undermining the golem's previous indoctrination in social superiority uber alles.

Hmmmm... perhaps Chiara did have such a confidante once, only Baccio had her quietly killed, to prevent his golem from being "corrupted" by silly ideas like being satisfied with one's life. :twisted:
I must say you bring some points of view which were not explored, but are nonetheless interesting! Keep them coming :), they might be useful during the future developments (especially when and after Baccio is gonna kick the bucket...).

Unfortunately for her, Chiara was created to channel and spread hate, so she has to thank her creator and the Goddess Discordia for what she is and for many feelings she could never have, like friends, confidantes...we'll see what she'll decide to choose in the future :twisted:
'...and they died happily ever after. The End.' - Xykon, from OotS #657
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Post by Pale »

Checco wrote:Unfortunately for her, Chiara was created to channel and spread hate, so she has to thank her creator and the Goddess Discordia for what she is and for many feelings she could never have, like friends, confidantes...we'll see what she'll decide to choose in the future :twisted:
There's a lot that's been said in this thread since I last piped up, but I wanted to touch briefly on this as it ties back to some of the concerns I had - how does a personality fueled by hate adequately "fake" the tenderness necessary for a long-con/seduction? If she's a walking, talking hate-battery, aren't people going to pick up on that "negative energy"? Isn't it going to interfere with her objectives?

She might be artificial and have the superhuman control over her facade to pull it off, but where does the knowledge come from? Her "father" built her out of his hate, and she's been thrust into a noble's game between houses and countries as a pawn, but expected by her father to act as a devastating hidden queen - to strain the metaphor.

Did Baccio find kind-hearted women and siphon their warmth and into her?
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Post by Manofevil »

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:I also like the Black Dragon, although I agree with those who think its status as a spelljammer should be kept hidden.
I LIKE that idea. Who says that anyone has too KNOW that the giant dragon head shaped building can fly? DnD is FILLED with dragon head shaped buldings. There's no reason your PCs should spot it as a spelljammer. Keep it on the downlow.
Rotipher of the FoS wrote: The 'Dangerous Liaisons' darklords are interesting, but I'm not convinced they wouldn't work better as non-lord villains than domain-bound ones. I can easily picture those two as a couple of Ivana's ermordenung, taking out their own frustrations on an Innocent for kicks and giggles. If you want to keep the erotic side to their relationship, we can always do what TSR's code of standards never let their writers say outright, and have the duo indulge in sexual games that don't require direct skin-to-skin contact.
I wonder if the final detail that needs to be added here is that this domain would be spawned by an existing domain. I could see a Dementlieu or a Borca giving rise to characters like these.

As for the Glass Countess, This is the first time this entrant has ever worked for me. I agree with many preceding comments that it';s very creepy. I also agree that the moral aspects also need to be better developed but that is also the case with many other entrants. Keep up the good work.
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So, gentlemen, that's how it is. Until Grissome.... resurfaces, I'm the acting president, and I say starting with this... anniversary festival, we run this city into the ground! :D
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Post by Checco »

Pale wrote:
Checco wrote:Unfortunately for her, Chiara was created to channel and spread hate, so she has to thank her creator and the Goddess Discordia for what she is and for many feelings she could never have, like friends, confidantes...we'll see what she'll decide to choose in the future :twisted:
There's a lot that's been said in this thread since I last piped up, but I wanted to touch briefly on this as it ties back to some of the concerns I had - how does a personality fueled by hate adequately "fake" the tenderness necessary for a long-con/seduction? If she's a walking, talking hate-battery, aren't people going to pick up on that "negative energy"? Isn't it going to interfere with her objectives?

She might be artificial and have the superhuman control over her facade to pull it off, but where does the knowledge come from? Her "father" built her out of his hate, and she's been thrust into a noble's game between houses and countries as a pawn, but expected by her father to act as a devastating hidden queen - to strain the metaphor.

Did Baccio find kind-hearted women and siphon their warmth and into her?
Well, she's more the shy type than the tender type, though all their powers to seduce (and keep a façade) come from the Goddess Discordia -or perhaps the DPs :wink: -.

Chiara's nature of hate-battery may indeed be discovered, she has some weak spots which could reveal her golem identity, her 'negative energy' could be perceived with some magic, a pity that divinations almost always fail in all Casteldebole...they seem not to be reliable :P! I guess the PCs should bet more on their investigative capabilities...

When Baccio preyed and devoted his soul to the Goddess, she provided him the 'tool' he desired. It seems to lack a lot of other useful abilities like loyalty, though, and all the knowledge she needed was imparted upon her when she was created, by the supernatural force who answered the prayers.

He's a formidable artist indeed :).

Of course he could ask for a 'woman' instead of a 'tool', but every artist is bizarre in his own way, it's common knowledge 8).
'...and they died happily ever after. The End.' - Xykon, from OotS #657
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Post by WolfKook »

Igor the Henchman wrote:One-forty PM and no sign of WolfKook.

Sorti, could you post Humbert Greimas, formatting it in the same way WolfKook did and dismissing the signature?

If whoever wrote up Lord Isaac Burney could privately mail his write-up to agouzov(at)gmail.com, I could have it up tomorrow, if WolfKook hasn't returned by then. I'm only offering to send it to me privately because Endemia's author has seemed to aim to stay anonymous so far.

Thanks! :)
Wow!!! Was it Humbert Greimas??? I might have filed him under "Professor"... Mmmmmm... And stepped over Isaac Burney, also. Something must be happening with me...

I already posted John Diamante, so I'll go with him for today. Tomorrow, I'll correct the mistake, by posting Humbert Greimas's description.
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Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

John Daimante - First off, big points for integrating his history into existing RL lore. We need more native darklords, IMHO. And good fitting curse based on his ambitions.

But unfortunately his evil acts are too undetailed to know if he truly merits DL-hood. I realize the impersonal nature of his evil is part of the story... he doesn't care who he hurts, so why should we? Suffice to say he's done some bad things in the pursuit of knowledge... but does it? Does that resonate the same way as killing ones own son (Irik), brother (Sergei), mother (Isabella), "mother" (Elise), or wife & daughter (the Godefroys)? Granted, he's not alone in impersonal body count. One could say the same of Drakov, or Harkon. But here, the killing is such an afterthought...

Overall, it feels again like someone who just kept failing powers checks until they reached the end of their terror track, getting a domain not with a bang, but a whimper. Is that a problem? It does fit the "rules" in a way that most other DLs don't, but it also shows why the other DLs aren't written that way. An Act of Ultimate Darkness makes for a more compelling story.
Last edited by Gonzoron of the FoS on Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Igor the Henchman »

If Diamante could have at least one distinguishing stroke to help him stand out as a memorable NPC - a signature trait, an unusual MO, an irrational affection or fear of something, an original lair, what have you, he would feel more complete. I see a very good basic idea, here, but its not very developed. Foggy, I'd say. It would help a lot to better define some of his crimes and how he fits into Scarabreach (a domain whose culture and features we still know next to nothing about, btw)

And has Diamate kept ties with the Fraternity? Is he trying to use them to forward his goals? How does the secret society react to one of their leaders being claimed by the Mists?
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Post by whalejudge »

I agree with Gonzoron; John Diamante feels very like someone who just kept failing powers checks until he got a domain. In this case, while the domain seems well designed to torment him, he doesn't seem very involved with it. He's not a native, he's not really interested in the people...he sounds a bit like what they had Soth or the elder Timothy doing before they lost their domains.
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Post by Manofevil »

I third what Whalejudge and G-ron said. THis guy seems...I don't know... generic. I do like the body count though.
Do us a favor Luv, Stick yer 'ead in a bucket a kick it!

So, gentlemen, that's how it is. Until Grissome.... resurfaces, I'm the acting president, and I say starting with this... anniversary festival, we run this city into the ground! :D
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Post by Sorti »

I'll fourth that. Also a Fraternity DL could give problems to the overall Fraternity story, since there was an attempt to create one and it went bad, so now they shouldn't be ignoring this one, right?
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Post by Nathan of the FoS »

Well, now. It's back to me again already.

John Diamante (somehow the "ia" in his last name seems to have been transposed) and Scarabraech have been problematic for me from the beginning. Frankly, I am astonished the domain and darklord have gotten as far as they have; Scarabraech was my least favorite of the five domains I submitted originally, and I put it in mostly because I had already mentioned it in the article on the Umbra (QtR 13, see sidebar "The Fate of John Diamante"). The mention of him there explains his present relationship with the Fraternity--he's permanently out of contact with them, but extremely eager to regain contact with them. (His being unable to communicate his discoveries to "the right people" is part of his curse.) I'm not surprised he's not a satisfying villain to you guys; he's not satisfying to me. I doubt that a formal withdrawal of the domain from the contest is necessary, but I doubt I would vote for it.

That said! Let me tell you a little about what I am trying to do with the domain, and open discussion on a couple of points.

A big part of the problem is that John Diamante doesn't have the level of detail given to his past to make him feel like a "real person". I think this is partly because I've been writing him as a sort of study of a particular kind of evil, rather than a individual--more like an essay than a story, in a sense. Which is ironic and amusing because it is a mild version of the kind of evil Diamante is intended to embody--treating the actual people around oneself as objects and/or philosophical abstractions, while claiming (and even believing) that one loves the philosophical abstraction "humankind" and is struggling to benefit it.
(I'd say his most direct historical/literary inspirations are Lenin and Kurtz, from Heart of Darkness.)

As Gonzoron mentioned, this makes the "blankness" of his misdeeds thematically appropriate. The other reasons for his relative lack of texture are a) I wrote this at the last minute, because b) inspiration for specific events totally failed to come, possibly because c) I wanted to portray somebody descending, smoothly but with ever-increasing speed, into extreme evil. No jolts! No big moral dilemmas! John Diamante decided on his course a long, long time ago, and he's followed it ever since, and the wild discrepancy between his actual word and deeds and his stated motivations doesn't even occur to him.

In a way, that "blankness" is his real weakness as a character; as written, he just doesn't doubt that he's been doing the right thing all along and his present situation is just an insanely frustrating anomaly which he's sure will be straightened out eventually. He might be a better candidate for an oubliette of some kind, although I think the "ruined world" aspect of Scarabraech is an important part of his curse that would be difficult to convey in less space (physically and thematically) than a domain.

The other big problem with the domain, which Igor alluded to by implication, is that the domain itself has given me all kinds of headaches to visualize and write out in a way that will distinguish it from Vechor and the Nightmare Lands. I want it to be somewhat reminiscent of "after the bomb" apocalyptic fiction (especially the technology-hatred of A Canticle for Leibowitz), combined with something like Nosus--but with magical, rather than technological, pollution.

At any rate, I can't in good conscience plead for your vote on this one; its flaws are too deep and too obvious. Maybe when 5th edition inspires another project along these lines it will be ready. ;)
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Post by Yaoi Huntress Earth »

I hope no one minds that I did some of the DLs as Gaia avatars (see Chibi-Ravenloft).
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Post by Yaoi Huntress Earth »

Out of curiosity, who are the next few?
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Post by Igor the Henchman »

If I guess the order correctly, the next 4 will be Humbert Greimas, Isaac Burney, Kravo Sardelli and Mother-Veaer.
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