Gazetteer Metaplot: Speculations on the Fate of S

[Nathan of the FoS]

I seem to recall someone floating the notion that S's adventures would end with her incorporation into the God-brain, which would certainly fit the bill for "horrible end" . That would also fit the bill as "conscious choice" and "likely to send Azalin insane with rage" if she were to do it to keep Azalin from getting the information he needed to bring the Grandiose Gazetteer Scheme(tm) to completion.

YMMV, but I rather like the idea.

[brilliantlight]

What was Azalin's scheme anyways? My guess is he was trying to find a way to break the spell on the Dukkar so that he can go anywhere he wants with even darklords in tow. This would weaken RL after he breaks some DLs loose out of spite. Azalin would actually partially succeed like in the Grand Conjunction but have it all fall apart at the end. After that the Dukkar gets his own domain. As for S I thought that she would come to a bad end somehow or other. I had her pegged as a woman from Gazzateer 1.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Gonzoron and Ail, I want to stress that my idea about S becoming an Aboleth is far more speculative than the rest of my interpretation of the metaplot.

Understood, and agreed.

However, Gonzoron, do you really think that being transformed into an Aboleth is fundamentally more bizarre than being transformed into a potentially immortal shapechanger with an extreme sensitivity to light and a peculiarly restricted diet who doesn't need oxygen (vampire), or an Aberration that feeds on fear (Marikith)?

I do, actually. For the vampire, they've got centuries of folklore and pop culture resonance that makes them less bizarre in the whole than dissected into their components. For the Marikith, you're closer to the aboleth there, but even then she's at least partially human-looking and relatable, and also the marikiths were created (near as I can tell) to fill a particular horror niche, with backstory added later to fit the RL context.


The thing with aboleths is, yeah if you know their backstory and biology, it may be a "perfect fit" to S's psychology, but:
a) who knows that backstory? only the most dedicated of D&Ders. they're a very obscure monster, with no literary resonance I know of. I've been playing for years and never knew them as anything other than "psionic fish monsters". I believe you, and wikipedia confirms it, but it doesn't resonate with the average fantasy/horror fan.

b) it changes her in a way that she is no longer the S we know, and can't even pass for her. Fans who've grown to like her and want to use her now have a very different seeming character (looks, powers, habitat, though I agree, not goals) to work with. It's disatisfying from a "novel" translated into gameplay perspective.

c) You can count the number of non-humanoid DLs on one hand (ok, almost, I count 6. Mallocchio can count them on one hand. ) And only the Marikith Queen was transformed from a human (unless you count the non-canon history of the God-Brain.)

The reason why Strahd becoming a vampire seems "plausible" in the Ravenloft setting isn't because vampires have a body structure or a biochemistry similar to humans. It's because vampires are a familiar metaphor for anxieties about the relationship between sexuality and death.

Exactly. But the word "familiar" is important there. If there was some creature in the gothic horror canon as evocative as a vamp or werewolf, that exemplified a craving for knowledge alongside a desire for progeny, sure she's become one of those. But aboleths aren't familiar enough for most folks, I think.

Also, I'm not sure if the "love for her daughter" angle would necessarily translate to her having more offspring. She loved THAT daughter, and her connection to her was a personal one, not necessarily extendible to other children. The baby in Keening was simply a reminder, not an example that she loves all kids. (considering her personality, I'd have a hard time believing she became a softee around kids in general.)

As an example: Strahd doesn't go after all beautiful women, only the ones that are (in a sense) Tatyana.

I'd expect her curse to revolve around her one daughter specifically, not all her children.

[Brandi]

The curse is usually putting something the DL wants just out of reach or most of he wants . That isn't true in your case. S is not a cannibal and won't be tempted in the slightest to eat her own young. It isn't just out of reach but way out of reach.

Maybe this is too facile, but what if she found that if she doesn't consume she doesn't just stop learning but starts forgetting?

[Joël of the FoS]

One more hint. The very, very last domain S was to visit -- the absolute final domain in the series -- was Bluetspur.

I seem to recall someone floating the notion that S's adventures would end with her incorporation into the God-brain, which would certainly fit the bill for "horrible end" . That would also fit the bill as "conscious choice" and "likely to send Azalin insane with rage" if she were to do it to keep Azalin from getting the information he needed to bring the Grandiose Gazetteer Scheme(tm) to completion.

YMMV, but I rather like the idea.

That would fit the whole thing, indeed.

She can't just get herself killed, or suicide, as the bracer will clone her agsin. She has to be trapped in something.

Joël

[Joël of the FoS]

And that would give the GB a lot of info on Azalin and his schemes, and that would annoy Azalin even more.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Also, I'm not sure if the "love for her daughter" angle would necessarily translate to her having more offspring. She loved THAT daughter, and her connection to her was a personal one, not necessarily extendible to other children. The baby in Keening was simply a reminder, not an example that she loves all kids. (considering her personality, I'd have a hard time believing she became a softee around kids in general.)

Not to mention that these "children" would most likely gross S out just as much as her own monstrous form did. Even having her think of them as children would seem implausible; with no father and nothing human about them, they'd probably seem less like offspring than like horrid alien parasites spawning within her flesh. Would you expect the sire of a brood of red widows to think of the resulting hatchlings as his "daughters", and love them as they eat their way out of his body?

[cure]

S as a darklord, were one to insist upon that conclusion, could be more simply cursed. She only learns by consuming the brains of her children. Both S and any children she might bear are perfectly human, but the price of knew knowledge is their eventual consumption.

[Lord Cyclohexane]

I seem to recall someone floating the notion that S's adventures would end with her incorporation into the God-brain, which would certainly fit the bill for "horrible end" . That would also fit the bill as "conscious choice" and "likely to send Azalin insane with rage" if she were to do it to keep Azalin from getting the information he needed to bring the Grandiose Gazetteer Scheme(tm) to completion.

YMMV, but I rather like the idea.

That would fit the whole thing, indeed.

She can't just get herself killed, or suicide, as the bracer will clone her agsin. She has to be trapped in something.

Couldn't the bracer still clone her, even if her brain had been removed from her corpse? Because I had once considered the above possibility of Nathan's (and in fact, I was the one who originated it), except that I couldn't see the GodBrain stopping Azalin from recloning S even after it'd absorbed a clone-brain into its own mass.

I think the above would only work if S became the GodBrain, which I'd proposed in the other thread [EDIT: Had proposed it on "Forum2", since deleted, during upgrade of the forums], but there are two problems with that: 1) It lets the GodBrain out of its own curse, and 2) It's not really fitting or gothic or even any way related to S's personality and so is rather unfulfilling.

But, as you mentioned, "she has to be trapped in something."

And while eternal existence in the GodBrain might work albeit unsatifyingly (perhaps the bracer wouldn't activate if her brain is still alive inside the Gestault, since she's still technically alive), I can think of two other options that would also work.

1) She could become a Darklord. After having accrued such knowledge of the Lands and their Lords, it's not unthinkable that S would escape Azalin using the same method that Azalin escaped Strahd. However, it leaves the issue of the relationship with her daughter unresolved, and thus similarly leaves off the comparison to Azalin & Irik's relationship.

1.5) Mangrum did mention that, originally, the Kargatane had intended to end 3E Ravenloft with an adventure, and that S would be a major player. This was before they changed their mind and decided that Gaz XIII would be the last product. In theory, S would be returning home to Darkon after Gaz13, and in my mind, it would be fitting to have S become the new Darklord of the Necropolis and thus be reunited with her daughter. This rather negates the current development of S as of Gaz5, where she is feeling great regret and seems to be moving towards redemption, but I must admit that I'd really prefer if S failed in her redemption and backslid like her father. Anyway, S as Darklord of the Necropolis is a development I'd enjoy, and I think should be one of the less-desirable potential endings of such an adventure.

2) Apothesis. On her current redemptive journey, where as of GazV we have S remarking on her sacrifice of the Vaasan child and her sacrifice of her own child and her wishing that such things could be reversed, there is a certain amount of Ezra starting to develop in the character's personality. While I find it horrendously unlikely and personally unsatisfying, S could always escape the bracers by becoming another Guardian In The Mists and protecting all of the Innocents in the Hollow.

I wish I'd gotten a chance to talk with Grey Arcanist, though. Oh, well.

And, going back through the proper Gaz Metaplot thread, it appears that I left for my last hiatus before actually posing my current guess as to the Metaplot... although I somewhat hint at it above. I'll make sure to post the idea after returning from DragonCon.

[Tobias Blackburn]

I think that the Godbrain would be able to disrupt Alazin's plans with S.

When she dies what she knows goes to the new her (be it clone or some other form of resurrection).

If she was absorbed by the Godbrain (not become, but absorbed into it) then all her knowledge is taken into it as well. So either she is not considered dead but instead exists forever as part of the Godbrain, or any attempts to gain access to her soul and knowledge are blocked by the Godbrain itself.

Another option is that she convinces the Godbrain (or it becomes convinced) that it might be able to get a body of its own by "piggybacking" with her mind/memories when the bracers does its thing. This comes into direct conflict with the Godbrain's curse, so it burns out the bracer and ruins any clone bodies if that's what is happening.

[cure]

This may well be a false memory, but I do seem to recall somewhere reading that a brain absorbed by an elder brain prevents the resurrection/raising of the person in question. If true, the destruction of the elder brain reopens the door to resurrection/raising, and by extension successful cloning. Does anyone else recall seeing this in canon? Or perhaps the idea is merely idle speculation born of this or another thread . . . .

[Tobias Blackburn]

This may well be a false memory, but I do seem to recall somewhere reading that a brain absorbed by an elder brain prevents the resurrection/raising of the person in question. If true, the destruction of the elder brain reopens the door to resurrection/raising, and by extension successful cloning. Does anyone else recall seeing this in canon? Or perhaps the idea is merely idle speculation born of this or another thread . . . .

If it is it is probably listed in Thoughts of Darkness, which I don't have on me at the moment.

I guess that destroying the God Brain would make it possible to resurrect someone devoured by it... that is, of course, if you assume that the very essence of the person doesn't become so completely absorbed by it and become a part of it that can never be separated (even after death).

Of course, destroying the God Brain itself is a moot discussion. It's such a powerful entity that it is simply unlikely to happen. Blutspur is too much of a stronghold, and even if Azalin wanted it dead it is unlikely that he could find the right people to do the job. It would sort of be like killing of Gwydion. It can happen in theory, but the chances are so small...

[Rotipher of the FoS]

FWIW, merging with the God-Brain isn't the only way in Bluetspur for S's soul/memories to be denied to her clone. Don't forget that the illithids are masters of flesh-grafting, and may even be familiar with cloning as well. What would happen if, say, they amputated S's arm and physically grafted it (complete with bracer) onto one of their own kind, or some mad, blithering imbecile of a Shattered Brethren? Azalin's little trinket could end up transferring the wrong soul into S's new clone, rendering it useless at least or an illithid spy -- with the perfect disguise, no less -- at worst.

Alternately, S might find herself in a position to solve the mystery of how illithids reproduce, and do so the hard way. Arguably, the human victims of ceremorphosis aren't "dead", just horribly brain-damaged and mutated by the illithid-tadpole's integration. If S's clone starts to develop mauve skin and tentacles, how much use would it be for Azalin's purposes?

[DocBeard]

Grey Arcanist: For what it's worth, I think your transformation is pretty clever. I think it fits with Ravenloft's original, "You can turn into a monster!" powers check formula.

I think that, between your insight and Mister Mangrum's 'chum', it's safe to conclude that the emotional crux of S's story is the redefinition of Azalin's core sin being that he was a terrible parent, that S is a terrible parent, and how that scars the mind. It's why Darkon is a chaotic mess that is influenced by Domains a tenth of its size, and it's why his goal-which I would wager has a lot to do with Grey Arcanist's 'eat your children' motif-is going to fail. S, like all of Ravenloft's truly doomed, chose her damnation, presumably to spite Azalin. What could make whatever horrible fate awaited her(Darklord is a possibility but not the only one.) seem better than the alternative?

The whole generation-spanning failure seems fairly Gothic to me, in the classical sense. As Azalin sacrificed Iruk, S sacrificed her daughter, and both seem unable to console themselves to the fact that they've betrayed their very biology in finding something more important than that parental imperative. It reminds me a bit of Frankenstein and his monster, actually, and how their sins reflect each other; ultimately, both "men" are guilty of letting a snap judgment control their lives, something that is as heavy with hubris as the doctor's original decision to create life with his bare hands.

[Nathan of the FoS]

And, of course, Azalin has been a pretty terrible parent ("parent") to S. (Talk about using your children as tools...) And between Irik, Dachine and S, it seems that what goes around comes around--Azalin's progeny end up perpetuating and/or exacerbating his curse.