Wheel of time books 1+ (SPOILERS!)

Books, movies, television and everything else
Post Reply
User avatar
alhoon
Invisible Menace
Invisible Menace
Posts: 8819
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:46 pm
Location: Chania or Athens // Greece

Wheel of time books 1+ (SPOILERS!)

Post by alhoon »

I finished my first rereading of book 1. Well, truth be told it didn't seem so good this time. A lot of things could have been written better as Jordan even admitted himself.

As of note, Moraine says too much instead of the usual know-as-much-as-needed. I found signs of Rand's channeling in book 1 and I wonder how I could have missed them in the first reading. :( Moraine describes to Nynaeve exactly how wilders come by the use of power, the giddy feelings, the sickness that passes in a couple of hours and adds that men also go through this. Then, a few chapters ahead, after lighting "miracusly" hits darkfriends that have Mat and Rand holed up and they escape, Rand goes through all the steps Moraine explained.
First time I read it, I didn't even suspect. :oops:
Far later, in the blight Rand watches Nynaeve "listening to the weather" and finding out it's wrong. And then he ponders about what he listens in the weather too. :?

And of course, my favorite quote from Moraine in book 1: "All the forsaken together cannot move 1000 trollocs" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: They really have no idea what can be done with the power. The Forsaken are right to sneer at them and even feel incredulous at the ignorance of the age.

Book 2 At the end of the 4th chapter Siuan declares that if anyone finds out what they plan with Moraine (hiding the Dragon Reborn, keeping him under Moraine's wing for fear of black Ajah) would lead to both of them being stilled for treason. Well, she was right about that. :)
Reading again about it now, it seems quite treacherous for an Amyrlin to hide news so important from the hall of the tower, especially if she did it because of fear of the Black Ajah. Siuan and Moraine admit to themselves immediately that it is treason, but they have to do it. Elaida was demanding by book 2 Moraine to be sent to penace for meddling with her affairs with that young ta'veren she met.

At chapter 15, Ishamael/Balzamon stops short of revealing it's not the Dark One. He calls the DO "great lord of the Dark" and speaks about him as if he's a different person. Even when he claims to have fought the dragon countless times, he doesn't actually sound as if he is the Dark one but a champion of the D.O. Strange that I've missed that.

What I really find amusing was that the Blue Ajah has a secret weave to control and command insects (Moraine uses it in NSpring) and they consider it a good weave. Well, Lanfear had a better one, one that worked on Grolm, and for miles. First time I read the Great Hunt, I wasn't sure she had something to do, but now I'm sure.

The "good" black sisters: A couple of Aes Sedai revealed to be black sisters aren't actually evil or bad. They had done their share of crimes as they say themselves but they had a positive impact on the main story. One joined just to save her skin as she admits.

I'm not sure some of them won't return in the final book. The Dark One can bring people back to serve and if he could do it a year before, then he certainly could do it with the seals weakening more and more. It is kinda forshadowed for one of the black sisters as she screams before dying, as if realizing that her oath of service isn't over just because she died.

Nynaeve's accepted testing: There's more there than meets the eye. As when she's tested for the sawl properly, Nynaeve is able to channel in there and still be unharmed. Not to mention that she either makes the gateway back reappear or she at the very least, she holds it back, long, long, long before she's taught to Travel. And what's this about those thorns in her hands?!
Last edited by alhoon on Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
"You truly see what a person is made of, when you begin to slice into them" - Semirhage
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia
My DMGuild work!
User avatar
alhoon
Invisible Menace
Invisible Menace
Posts: 8819
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:46 pm
Location: Chania or Athens // Greece

Re: Wheel of time books 1+ (SPOILERS!)

Post by alhoon »

Why I think The Three oaths are kinda problematic:

- "Speak no word that's not true". OK, that's fine deception is an art and sisters could do nothing at all if they couldn't bend truth, but at least when they give a straight answer educated people know they're telling the truth.

- "Make no weapon for one man to kill another". No rules about humans... or trollocs, or other things. OK, an Aes Sedai making weapons for Trollocs = black, so that doesn't count.
But an Aes Sedai could well use her power to forge weapons with the intention of women, like the sword sisters of Faile, using them to fight men. Or for Borderlanders fighting shadowspawn.
I'm pretty sure that Greens in the borderlands may have helped a bit here and there through the centuries to forge weapons to defend a town from trollocs. A sister could help forging 100 spearheads in a few hour, by keeping the metal heated and then cooling it. 100 spears could make the difference in a town with 1200 people on the path of 2000 trollocs with the army 2 days from arrival.

- "Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadow spawn, or in the last extreme of defending her own life, that of her Warder, or that of another sister".
Actually, that's my biggest gripe:
1. that's badly phrased in the books, and it's not used in the books as the oath demands. Aes Sedai seem quite fond of grabbing people with air and moving them around. They shield other Aes Sedai not as the last extreme but as a precaution. A red sister would shield a man able to channel even if she found him sleeping. A sleeping channeler = not last extreme. Cruel Aes Sedai but not blacks (Elaida comes to mind) beat novices or accepted (or Amyrlin seats) with whips made of air.
So, it seems obvious that "as a weapon" = to kill with the power. Cutting off someone from the power doesn't count. Beating someone doesn't count. Immobilizing someone doesn't count.

Which brings us to #2, as some character noticed in Book 12 (or 13).
An Aes Sedai is free to kill with a knife or something else. A red can't kill a shielded male chaneller with fire. She can however tie him up (even with air) and slit his throat with a knife. She can slip inside an enemy camp using that disguise self thing and poison the food. She can seal the door of a cell shut with earth, making it earthtight, and leave the prisoner to suffocate.

Thoughts?
"You truly see what a person is made of, when you begin to slice into them" - Semirhage
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia
My DMGuild work!
User avatar
alhoon
Invisible Menace
Invisible Menace
Posts: 8819
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:46 pm
Location: Chania or Athens // Greece

Re: Wheel of time books 1+ (SPOILERS!)

Post by alhoon »

Book 2 After Thom is attacked by Barthanes' men and wants to go kill Barthanes he is informed that Barthanes is dead torn limb for limb.
Do you think that Lanfear sent the Golam against Barthanes because she wanted to protect Rand? Don't Forsaken have more important things to do other than going after their ex-lovers? Thinking of it, Lanfear and about half the Forsaken haven't really helped the Dark One's cause except when they were ordered to it (and they chaffed) or inadvertedly. Verin was right about them being so selfish that they can't see beyond their noses.

Lanfear wasn't rising an army or doing anything important at all till she was killed by Moraine.
Aginor and the other Forsaken died before they could do anything, after Aginor actually tried to steal the Eye of the Word.
Asmodean ended up teaching Rand.
Graendal could have risen an army or influenced kingdoms but instead she was stealing pets and indulged in orgies before Rand dealt with her pets. OK unrest in Arad Doman. How exactly that attributes to helping the Dark One? The people there were so disorganized that they jumped to support the Dragon Reborn.

I think the two new "Forsaken" (Mazrim Taim and Alviarhin) are better since they actually serve.

Another thought: What if the Horn of Valere brings back Artur Hawkwing in front of the Seanchan? ANY Seanchan? I think they'll be joining Rand soon, with Artur Hawkwing (and Mat) on their head.
Without giving spoilers about Book 12B, that scenario seems to be drawing closer.
Also, Hawkwing is now Mat's great great ... (long list)... great father in law?

Also, Fain sounded like a true Seanchan when talking to Turak! So much ... that Turak was suspicious. Smart man Turak and patriot, loyal, realist and reasonable. I wish he was still around in the series. He would be a good one to have in the Last Battle. I think I like him best of all the Seanchan lords.

39 chapter: Min and Elayne are clearly shown attracted to Rand to the point of them being in love with him as they risk their hides leaving the White Tower and they stride in the unknown (in the ways). Both more or less admit they do it for Rand.


Later in the book, we have the first indication that Sul'Dam can learn to channel. Rena and Alwin can see if a Damane uses the power or not even when she doesn't wear the a'dam. Also there's a viewing of Min that connects Egwene to... Galad. :?

Chapter 47: Mat sounds the horn. Let's see how Seanchan like fighting Artur Hawkwing.
That reminds me... the Horn of Valere is still in Tar Valon, isn't it? And only Mat can sound it. So, Mat the prince of Ravens can call Artur Hawkwing and will actually do so in the last battle.

I can't tell more since it would be a spoiler about book 12B but that will propably prove too problematic for the plans of the Seanchan. Also that's what will propably send the Seanchan to join Rand in the last battle. My estimation? 350K Seanchan soldiers and hundreds if not thousands of Damane.
I wonder how many the darkfriends and trollocs are because from what I can see... they'll be overwhelmed.
"You truly see what a person is made of, when you begin to slice into them" - Semirhage
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia
My DMGuild work!
User avatar
alhoon
Invisible Menace
Invisible Menace
Posts: 8819
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:46 pm
Location: Chania or Athens // Greece

Re: Wheel of time books 1+ (SPOILERS!)

Post by alhoon »

Book 3:

Book 3: Moraine really bluntered with Rand in the beginning and after he leaves she realizes it. Still, her awe for the forsaken ("the weakest of them stronger than the 10 most powerful Aes Sedai living today") is unwarranted. She has faced a Forsaken and has seen another taken down. She knows they're just more knowledgable and a somewhat more powerful

About the prophecies Moraine mentions:
- "shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf?" Pretty obvious and already done. :)
- he ‘shall bind the nine moons to serve him’ Pretty obvious again, but not done yet, 10 books after this. :(
- "What ‘wounds of madness and cutting of hope’ has he healed?" Wounds of madness... does it refer to Lews Therin's memories absorbed with Rand's? To Nyaeve's healing of Madness? To cleansing Saidin?
- "What chains has he broken, and who put into chains?" Well... go figure which of all such things he has done the prophecies meant.

Chapter 10: Verin after the Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve hurry off the whitecloaks with the OP (the only time I remember her so angry) has a point. The whitecloaks as she said could well go tell that Aes Sedai used the OP against them and that, even coming from whitecloaks, would harm the tower.
"You truly see what a person is made of, when you begin to slice into them" - Semirhage
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia
My DMGuild work!
Post Reply