Which Borders do You Close?

[Ryan Naylor]

I am in two minds about whether, for example, Hazlan's wall of fire is visible from Nova Vaasa or not. On one hand, I can see a good argument for it being so: crazy wizard king, don't go near there, he does it with a spell, etc. On the other, the idea that you cross the border and a wall of flame suddenly appears behind you is also kind of groovy.

Approaching the closed border from the inside, there should be no question of what they're getting themselves into. The effect starts to creep up on the PCs. If they keep pushing forwards, it gets worse and worse until they can't go any further. In Forlorn, for example, I don't think you should cross the border and wham! You're paralysed. That would be stupid, unfair and not terribly atmospheric. However, if a stiffness starts in your hands and feet and creeps slowly up, getting worse and worse as you try to escape, while you feel the malignancy of Castle Tristenoira pressing down on you from afar, then (a) your PCs have plenty of opportunity to back out and (b) you're telling a story.

I had more to say on this, but Mikhal has already cut it down to the bare essentials: using them to tell a story and show your PCs' actions have consequences: good. Railroading them in an unfair or annoying way: bad. It's a game with friends. If it's turned adversarial or the players don't trust you to look after them and help tell a decent gothic horror story, you have failed.

[Vlad]

Approaching the closed border from the inside, there should be no question of what they're getting themselves into. The effect starts to creep up on the PCs. If they keep pushing forwards, it gets worse and worse until they can't go any further. In Forlorn, for example, I don't think you should cross the border and wham! You're paralysed. That would be stupid, unfair and not terribly atmospheric. However, if a stiffness starts in your hands and feet and creeps slowly up, getting worse and worse as you try to escape, while you feel the malignancy of Castle Tristenoira pressing down on you from afar, then (a) your PCs have plenty of opportunity to back out and (b) you're telling a story.

Cool idea! Thanks, although I wonder how to handle this with the stranger closures (rats, fire etc)

[Ryan Naylor]

I think having a wall of fire or rats in front of you should be enough warning.

However, giving the PCs the chance to turn back after a round to avoid being crisped or eaten is probably polite too.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

In my campaigns (over 15 years), I've closed the borders for Gundarak, Forlorn, Falkovnia and Paridon

What border closures did you use for Gundarak and Falkovnia? Those domains don't have border closures in canon.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

I had more to say on this, but Mikhal has already cut it down to the bare essentials: using them to tell a story and show your PCs' actions have consequences: good. Railroading them in an unfair or annoying way: bad. It's a game with friends. If it's turned adversarial or the players don't trust you to look after them and help tell a decent gothic horror story, you have failed.

Of course, but you also fail in you completely destroy the suspension of disbelief. Suppose the PC's get Ivana really hacked off, and she closes the borders for a day so that her ermordenung can hunt them down. What do I tell the players when they ask how many unsuspecting travelers died that day, or what the consequences are for the Boritsi Trading Company? If I can't make it believable, I lose their suspension of disbelief.

[HuManBing]

In my campaigns (over 15 years), I've closed the borders for Gundarak, Forlorn, Falkovnia and Paridon

What border closures did you use for Gundarak and Falkovnia? Those domains don't have border closures in canon.

I thought Gundarak summons the Mists of Ravenloft.

Edit: Just checked. It does. Black Box, Realm of Terror, p. 72.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

What do I tell the players when they ask how many unsuspecting travelers died that day, or what the consequences are for the Boritsi Trading Company? If I can't make it believable, I lose their suspension of disbelief.

"Mystery illness kills dozens. Quarantine declared. All residents advised to remain within city limits until further notice" -- Borcan town crier.

[BedrockBrendan]

I've never used a border closure in my game. I don't see how it is unworkable thought. If the motivation is strong enough I can see a domain lord closing the border to keep someone form leaving or entering.

[Ryan Naylor]

Why would it kill so many unsuspecting travellers? Are they too stupid to turn back as well when they start to choke? If you're a merchant, not an adventurer, I would think you're even more likely to turn back as soon as symptoms start to appear, because you're not as used to facing pain and death as an adventurer.

I think explaining it as a mystery illness is perfectly adequate.

Plus, it is a matter of canon that people know bad things happen when you're too close to the borders, which is why no one lives there. People presumably don't talk about it much in case they invite the evil into their lives, but they know/have suspicions/have legends that they're there. So maybe they reach the borders, turn back, mutter something about the stars not being right for the journey, and try again tomorrow. There's a reason most people are suspicious, xenophobic and tend not to travel very far from where they were born.

In the real world, merchants and travellers are delayed by bad weather, wheels coming off their wagons, illness, bandits and so on. This is just one more interruption (albeit an unusually frightening supernatural one).



For Falkovnia, I used troops partrolling the borders, as an "escape across the Iron Curtain" scenario. For Gundarak, in canon Mists lead you back into the domain, but based on Gundar's description in Knight of the Black Rose, I used something more like the ego whip psionic power.

[Strahdsbuddy]

Agree 100% with Ryan regarding non-adventurers not testing the border's limits. One failed save is enough to keep most people home. No different than us making an excuse to call out of work

I admit to playing a little bit of Devil's Advocate in this thread, but I don't think it was every stated terribly well in canon what happens as you approach a closed border, only what happens once you're there. Building the suspense like any other encounter is a good idea. I thought it was important to have it on record that instant effects with no warning are not the tropes of good horror. Every character should be given fair warning, and the real horror lies in the fact that they brought the consequences on themselves by being foolish rather than playing it safe.

I'm still not in love with border closures, but I've been swayed enough to see that their complete removal is unnecessary.

[HuManBing]

based on Gundar's description in Knight of the Black Rose, I used something more like the ego whip psionic power.

I don't have the psionic handbooks any more, but I find your idea intriguing. Can you briefly describe the power and what it feels like to a PC who wanders into it? I'd like to see if I can work it into my campaign setting.

[Galeros]

based on Gundar's description in Knight of the Black Rose, I used something more like the ego whip psionic power.

I don't have the psionic handbooks any more, but I find your idea intriguing. Can you briefly describe the power and what it feels like to a PC who wanders into it? I'd like to see if I can work it into my campaign setting.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm

[High Priest Mikhal]

based on Gundar's description in Knight of the Black Rose, I used something more like the ego whip psionic power.

I don't have the psionic handbooks any more, but I find your idea intriguing. Can you briefly describe the power and what it feels like to a PC who wanders into it? I'd like to see if I can work it into my campaign setting.

Ego Whip does 1d4 points of Charisma damage per hit. So automatic 1d4 Cha damage per round unless they leave the closed border.

[lostboy]

I always thought an interesting way to play the more fantastical and sfx border closures was to make them very subtle and personal experiences for the players, sowing seeds of doubt in their minds that it was real or not.

Example - Hazlan. Rather than a giant wall of fire, perhaps slip a note to some or half of the party explaining that heat begins to rise from the ground as they move forward, as they continue flames begin to lick at their boots, igniting spontaneously from the soil, but only when they aren't looking directly at them, that an illusive stench of charred flesh or brimstone floats on the air, accompanied by a low lying dark mist that flits in patches across the landscape ahead etc etc.

Symptoms would get worse as they push forward, perhaps accompanied by damage, but damage without physical manifestation (i.e it hurts but no actual burns appear). Basically engineer a situation where several players think either they are going nuts or are indeed at the mercy of something huge. Obviously others would feel no ill effects, which would lead to interesting conversations and decision points, especially when a turn backwards causes all the symptoms to evaporate...

Of course this depends on having the kind of players who respond to this kind of thing and that it fits your DMing style.

Just an idea...

[DeepShadow of FoS]

Agree 100% with Ryan regarding non-adventurers not testing the border's limits. One failed save is enough to keep most people home. No different than us making an excuse to call out of work

I admit to playing a little bit of Devil's Advocate in this thread, but I don't think it was every stated terribly well in canon what happens as you approach a closed border, only what happens once you're there. Building the suspense like any other encounter is a good idea. I thought it was important to have it on record that instant effects with no warning are not the tropes of good horror. Every character should be given fair warning, and the real horror lies in the fact that they brought the consequences on themselves by being foolish rather than playing it safe.

I'm still not in love with border closures, but I've been swayed enough to see that their complete removal is unnecessary.

I'm convinced as well. It looks like all I was missing was the warnings as they drew near the border. I agree that would be enough to minimize the casualties and manage the disbelief.