Top 5 what the @#!* moments in Ravenloft

[Bluebomber4evr]

Why are people still so bitter about Soth getting pulled out of Ravenloft? It's MW and TH's creation, and they could do pretty much anything they want with him from a writer's perspective, legalese notwithstanding.

This is just incorrect. They had no claim to the character; TSR could do whatever it wanted with him. That is the essential aspect of doing work for hire in a shared world. And as some others have said, it's not what they did, it's how they did it. So "legalese nothwithstanding" is not really a valid response.

Right. And that's not even getting into the condescending attitude Margaret Weis has displayed when talking about Ravenloft and Ravenloft fans (calling us "those people" for one), or the equally condescending tone from the people at Sovereign Stone press when discussing Soth in Ravenloft; I remember getting a particularly snotty response on WotC's Dragonlance boards back when 3rd ed. Dragonlance was released. The whole thing was just juvenile and pathetic. They could have handled it so much better than they did.

[eldritch]

I never thought "Soth's ennui" made sense nor would the Powers just let him go, especially the Powers part. They would have (imo) just cranked up the pain and torment until he snapped out of it (his whole escape and redemption could have been one cruel Power's hoax) or was broke/destroyed and someone else took over....after all if the other darklords understood what happened to Soth they all could just do a Gandhi-ish sit-down non-coorporation movement like Soth did and get their own release...what? Strahd and Azalin would never do that? Well, neithor would have the real Soth lol

I rather liked the idea that the Domains are prisons of the darklords' own making and if they realized this then they could escape. If they realized the nature of their prison they should be freed from their self inflicted curse. The Powers just provide the means and method to imprison (what, where, how, when, who) not the reasons why or why not. The powers are the wardens and jailers so to speak and not the justice, appeals or parole systems that convicted or have power to release.

Strahd would have to give up his fruitless search for Tatyana and the whole "I am the land" thing. Once he made up his mind that he could give up total ownership of the land and its people and grieve Tatyana as lost, I think his ties to his domain would weaken, of course this is contrary to his very nature so he is imprisoned by his own jealousy and envy.

Azalin would have had to give up being a total all powerful ruler in Darkon which he sorta did when he made the attempt to try for demilich status but he forgot the powerful part and was wrenched back from his failed attempt to leave. His lust for power keeps him here.

The ever changing status of Soth's keep and his banshee tormentors ceased to irk him because he was lost in the memory mirrors completely. The prison failed to function as a prison (reminds me of a Gene Wilder Movie "Stir Crazy" where they throw him in the hole and when they open the tiny box a few days later he pleads for more time as he was just getting to know himself.) Once his tormentors (the dark powers) ceased to have an effect on him, they lost the ability to constrain him. He overcame his regret which is what held him prisoner.

It is ego, hubris, vanity, revenge, spite, etc. which keeps the Darklords captive and if they somehow became contrite, forgiving or relinquishing, then they would be free by way of personal catharsis.

[Zilfer]

I indeed like this.... it's also stated that Some Darklord's may be "saveable" as well. Does anyone do this in a game? or is the only abolisment of Darklord statis death? I have a feeling most people lean to Darklords stay darklords because then the setting stays familiar, as well as if you get rid of one it's usually by death.

[Cam]

I have often thought about "saving" darklords by having them use the Apparatus to split their psyches. I guess this would only save half the darklord in question though (if it worked at all -- I could see the Dark Powers intervening to prevent this). I might do this with Hiregaard as a mid- or high-level adventure in the campaign I am starting later this month. Anyway, the idea is appealing to me because the Apparatus is cool and because I want my players to fear getting apparatus'd. I have never wanted to do it just to save a darklord, although that could be a side effect (perhaps a main effect in a darklord's mind).

[Hazgarn]

Like I said earlier in the thread, I'd consider allowing Von Kharkov to be saved by turning him back into a panther. He wound up as darklord after being brutally attacked with the WTF stick, and I think removing some of his identity issues might at least make the Dark Powers loosen their hold a bit.

That said...it might be really interesting to keep him around as an awakened panther.