Overland travel in the Near Ethereal

[cure]

I am pondering the relative utility of overland travel in the Near Ethereal between domains in Ravenloft. Evidently no shortcuts are available through the Deep Ethereal.

The most obvious benefits would seem to be the ability to evade observation by the vast majority of material creatures and to ignore terrain.

The first point is perhaps more than balanced by the fact that one may attract the attention of ethereal creatures.

As to the second point, avoiding terrain would seem to mean far more than simply not getting bogged down in the mud of a poorly tended road. It would mean taking a straight-line route between points A and B without regard to rivers, lakes, seas, forests and mountains as one would simply fly over them. Although this might make for interesting skill checks to not get lost ... Particular terrain dangers would also be avoided, such as avalanches, tempests, and the like.

A third benefit would be avoiding dangerous or simply disagreeable weather. One could cross a desert without the searing heat, one could cross the iciest of lands without the burning cold. And again without the storms.

There would of course be ethereal resonance, but this would seem to not be a significant factor over long distances.

I am pondering this matter in particular in relation to the presence of nightmares in Nova Vaasa, that land's large size, and the need of the Church of the Lawgiver to maintain communication between Kantora and its far-flung fanes, especially in Hazlan. (Yes, there are some relevent clerical spells which would be accessible to those high up in the church: sending, windwalk, greater scrying, and greater planeshift. But I am exploring other more 'mundane' possibilities beyond simply dispatching mounted messengers, which is not especially rapid, secure, or safe.)

Thoughts? Additions? Corrections? Possibilities?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

It's been a while since I've read the Manual of the Planes, but doesn't the near ethereal have ethereal echoes of the terrain? you might not be able to avoid the terrain entirely, but it would help.

I would expect that, this being Ravenloft, chances are it would not go so smoothly. Frequent use of this kind of travel would have long lasting effects: ghostsight, hauntings, premature aging and the like.. Not to mention you can steal a lot of the "transporter mishap" plots from Star Trek.

[Tobias Blackburn]

I think the main problem of that form of travel would be running into Ethereal Resonance and Sinkholes of Evil that result from them. It might even be harder to avoid walking through these areas since they have more presence in the Near Ethereal than the average place.

You may be able to avoid a bog, for example, but you might be forced to traverse the entirety of a field that was the site of a particularly bloody battle. And while it may be a sinkhole of evil on the material plane, you now have to walk through the resonance that makes it a sinkhole and deal with any spirits or other creatures that are dwelling or trapped within it.

[cure]

Opps, apparently the Dark Powers didn't get the memo that the Deep Ethereal and the Near Ethereal were canceled in 3.0-3.5: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ethereal_plane

Or alternatively, since Ravenloft 3.0 was cleaved off from, and wasn't supposed to reference, the rests of the TSR/Wizards' multiverse, perhaps we are (happily) stuck with the 2e multiverse.

Either way, anyone can 'fly' in the 2e or 3e Ethereal soup. So unless the sky of Ravenloft is littered with sink holes of evil, avoiding them in overland movement shouldn't 'technically' be much of a challenge. Although that might not be so desirable from a story point of view. One can also, when necessary according to the RSC, 'walk through' ethereal resonance of a lower rank than yourself (with your rank being established by comparing your charisma score to that of ranked ghosts.) That does not necessarily make it safe to do so, but most of it will be rank 1 or rank 2, and as such won't be a barrier to many PCs. I could imagine certain mountain homes of Darklords towering into the sky as ethereal resonance, but surely not every nook and gully in Ravenloft has the emotional content in the recent past to make it show up as ethereal resonance. For my money, I would be more tempted to make navigation without reference to such landmarks very difficult.

Any rules/thoughts on near ethereal navigation?

[Alastor]

Opps, apparently the Dark Powers didn't get the memo that the Deep Ethereal and the Near Ethereal were canceled in 3.0-3.5: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ethereal_plane

Or alternatively, since Ravenloft 3.0 was cleaved off from, and wasn't supposed to reference, the rests of the TSR/Wizards' multiverse, perhaps we are (happily) stuck with the 2e multiverse.

Actually, in this case it's the Forgotten Realms that has been modified apart from the rest of the D&D multiverse. The 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes still uses the Great Wheel as its default cosmology and mentions the Deep Ethereal, although I believe it's relegated to a sidebar.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Actually, in this case it's the Forgotten Realms that has been modified apart from the rest of the D&D multiverse. The 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes still uses the Great Wheel as its default cosmology and mentions the Deep Ethereal, although I believe it's relegated to a sidebar.

Yup. It's the Deep that's optional, in a sidebar. The "Near" has become the standard Ethereal Plane.

I don't know what the heck happened in FR, but looking at that wiki, it's not at all consistent with the MotP and Planar Handbook. (how one world of a supposedly connected multiverse can have a different planar cosmology than others, I have no idea. Planar traveler from Oerth hops a portal to the Abyss and then ferries down the Styx into Hades and finds a portal to Faerun. Planar traveler from Faerun calls him a liar because the Abyss doesn't connect to Hades without going through the Cynosure, the Fugue Plane or the material. Who's right? So much for "shared world" settings... oh well.)

[cure]

It's been a while since I've read the Manual of the Planes, but doesn't the near ethereal have ethereal echoes of the terrain?

This seems to be how the Shadow Plane is described.

[Ryan Naylor]

It's been a while since I've read the Manual of the Planes, but doesn't the near ethereal have ethereal echoes of the terrain?

This seems to be how the Shadow Plane is described.

They both are in different ways.

The Shadow is a macabre distorted reflection of the Material, full of suppressed secrets and unseen truths.

The Ethereal is a misty but undistorted reflection of the Material, where emotional energy becomes solid.

[cure]

It's been a while since I've read the Manual of the Planes, but doesn't the near ethereal have ethereal echoes of the terrain?

This seems to be how the Shadow Plane is described.

They both are in different ways.

The Shadow is a macabre distorted reflection of the Material, full of suppressed secrets and unseen truths.

The Ethereal is a misty but undistorted reflection of the Material, where emotional energy becomes solid.

But doesn't the vast majority of the Material landscape lack sufficient emotional significance? Surely someone wasn't hung from every tree, someone wasn't beaten to death against every rock, someone was sacrificed on every hilltop, someone was drowned in every stream, ... and moreover recently since ether resonance fades? Wouldn't the ethereal 'landscape', to the degree that it exists, actually be a very effective, and very dangerous, map to the most emotionally charged and deadly places in a domain, with these places being, for the most part, separated by a great deal of undifferentiated standard, empty ethereal?

[Ryan Naylor]

From the Manual of Planes:

"The Material Plane itself is visible from the Ethereal, but appears muted and indistinct, its colour blurring and edges fuzzy. Ethereal denizens watch the Material as though viewing it through distorted and frosted glass... No matter where you are on the Ethereal, you can see the corresponding part of the Material, which appears wrapped in fog, obscuring precise details. It's easy to discern faces and landmarks, however. Objects on the Material appear foggy, indistinct and almost translucent."

...And then as their ethereal resonance increases, they become sharper, more distinct, and more solid to ethereal creatures.

The minimum ethereal resonance is 1, after all, not 0. So while the ethereal is a pretty effective map of intense emotions and horrors, the bits that aren't aren't featureless.

[cure]

From the Manual of Planes:

"The Material Plane itself is visible from the Ethereal, but appears muted and indistinct, its colour blurring and edges fuzzy. Ethereal denizens watch the Material as though viewing it through distorted and frosted glass... No matter where you are on the Ethereal, you can see the corresponding part of the Material, which appears wrapped in fog, obscuring precise details. It's easy to discern faces and landmarks, however. Objects on the Material appear foggy, indistinct and almost translucent."

...And then as their ethereal resonance increases, they become sharper, more distinct, and more solid to ethereal creatures.

The minimum ethereal resonance is 1, after all, not 0. So while the ethereal is a pretty effective map of intense emotions and horrors, the bits that aren't aren't featureless.

I have been thinking about this and looking back at the RSC (if there is a better source for info on ethereal resonance please let me know).

Any creature that is ethereal (e.g. a PC on an ethereal jaunt or a ghost) experiences ethereal resonance as solid, both to sight and touch. If the resonance is of a lower rank than that creature there is the option of treating it as solid or alternatively passing through it.

Any ethereal resonance that comes into existence stays in existence. So a torture chamber that flared into existence as rank three would fall to rank one after it was abandoned and would remain rank one so long as it remained abandoned.

Only emotion drives the creation of ethereal resonance. The unusual home where nothing untoward ever happened would not be transcribed onto the ethereal plane as ethereal resonance. "To travelers
on the Ethereal Plane, the house would be barely detectable. They might get the sense that something was there but would be unable to perceive it in any concrete way." (181) Most homes, however, would have sufficient emotion at some point or other to ensure their permanent transcription on the ethereal plane as ethereal resonance. Old cities in particular would be a bewildering and sometimes even impossible maze to navigate in the ethereal, with older and more recent buildings overlapping one another.

Given the disinterest of the Dark Powers in the treatment of animals by each other and by butchers, trappers, hunters and the like, the emotions in question are surely those of intelligent creatures with a sense of right and wrong. Consequently corners of the domains relatively unsullied by the presence of such creatures and their corresponding emotions should result in an adjacent ethereal plane relatively free of ethereal resonance. In such places there would be nothing, for the most part, to trip over or to bang your head against. You, of course, would still see the adjacent material plane, its rocks or trees muted and indistinct, their colours blurred and their edges fuzzy. But this looking through a distorted and frosted glass would not be an impediment to your movement. You could, for the most part, walk straight through the trees and scrubs of a virgin forest . Better yet, so that they don't impede your sight, you could 'fly' over the forest. For that matter you could fly over a city of ethereal resonance too. Exceptionally tall buildings would need to be bypassed. But ethereal resonance would stand out like a soar thumb and for the most part, if one so desired, it could be easily bypassed. Hence, the suggestion that for the purposes of overland movement, Ravenloft's near ethereal might offer individuals of sufficient power an useful alternative to well-traveled and carefully-watched roads.

Does this seem like an accurate account of the situation?

Any thoughts on the modification of skill checks in respect to not getting lost? Sure one could follow the existing road from A to B. But why not take the straight-line route over hill and dale where there will, moreover, be less ethereal resonance to run into?

Any thoughts on domain borders, both open and closed?

[Ryan Naylor]

No mortal magic can overcome a closed border. Ergo, magically transporting yourself to the Ethereal would not allow you to get through the border - I'd say that the ethereal resonance of closing the border closes the ethereal border as well.

I think your description is mostly accurate.

Vision on the Ethereal Plane is limited to 60 feet, so you can't really navigate very easily (unless for some reason compasses still work, which is possible but debatable). Unless you're very careful, long distance navigation could easily veer off course - no stars, no distant landmarks to measure against, etc.

Looking at the tracking modifiers for the Survival skill (which is the closest I can find), the base DC for navigating across country is 15, +6 for very poor visibility (for the mists) = DC 21. Or there abouts.

If you're in a really featureless area, like you're talking about, I might even add the "hidden trail" modifier, pushing it to DC 26 - so lots of ethereal resonance would (perhaps counter-intuitively) help people find their way around.

So strong resonance may not stick out like a sore thumb so much as loom suddenly out of the ethereal mists.

I don't know that animal emotions won't shape the ethereal resonance, but it would probably be blunter and less focused than the emotions of intelligent creatures.

[The Giamarga]

Cure, theres always the 2E Planescape "Guide to the Ethereal Plane". Its an excellent book.

Also: pfsrd has rules for getting lost here

[cure]

Guide to the Ethereal Plane is excellent.

As to domain borders, how do they would they appear, if at all, when open and when closed? For the purposes of the ethereal, I would be tempted to not treat domains as different planes. Otherwise the near ethereal wouldn't permit access from one another.

[Ryan Naylor]

I think that may be overinterpreting the rule.

Domains are treated as different planes for the purposes of casting spells across borders. They're not actually different planes, so the Ethereal still goes from one to the next.

I'd probably keep the border closures the same visually. And probably no real differences visually when open. But that's just a personal opinion.

Given the Shadow is the plane of repressed truths, I might more clearly indicate the borders there.