Optional rule: Specific hosts for calling spells

[Sorti]

I'm a little unsatisfied by how Calling spells (planar ally, planar binding, gate, etc.) in Ravenloft make it very easy to increase the number of fiends permanently residing in the Demiplane.

I like my fiends to be more special and have a tormented backstory more complex than "A 7-th level cleric chanted stuff for 10 minutes and here I am". I am of course a fan of transposition, but I don't want to ban the Calling spells completely.

So I was thinking of the following optional rule. You can use a Calling spell with the usual duration to call a mist clone of a generic type of outsider, within the normal rules of the spell. The mist clone is like the outsider in any way except that it has the [Mist] subtype in addition to its normal ones, and you have to pay it or bargain with it as usual, except when the spell ends it dissolves in mist.

If you want to call an outsider permanently, you need to procure a host body as an additional component. The type of host body depends on the outsider, as specified by the list below.

If the host body is a living being, it has to be helpless for the whole duration of the spell's casting, and the caster (or maybe the outsider?) can decide whether the called being possesses the host (see rules for possession) or the host dies and is replaced by the called being at full power in its body (and the host cannot be resurrected until the outsider lives). Finally, if the host is a living being it has to have at least a number of levels/hit dice equal to the called being's CR minus 2.

I would need your help to expand/modify the list of hosts . The Pathfinder bestiary has some directions on which kind of sould become which kind of outsider. For now I was thinking:

Angels: (host must be alive and consenting)
Astral deva: ?
Planetar: NG cleric with the War domain
Solar: NG cleric with the Sun domain

Azatas: ?

Demons: (host can be alive or corpse)
Babau: solitary serial killer
Balor: ruthless warlord, slayer of thousands
Dretch: cowardly bully
Glabrezu: ruined many lives through treachery and deceit
Hezrou: killed many people with poison or pollution
Marilith: cruel king/sadistic general/ something like that (too similar to Balor?)
Nabassu: cannibal/blood drinker/eater of undead flesh
Nalfeshnee: miser who accumulated large amount of money with violence
Quasit: (no host required, but must be binded as familiar)
Shadow demon: ?
Succubus: pushed people to killing/suicide via seduction
Vrock: career criminal/mercenary/assassin

Devils: (host must be alive)
Barbed: sadistic jailer / torturer
Bearded: soldier who followed horrible orders with no remorse
Bone: ?
Erynes: hunter and killer of sentient beings (including bounty hunters, racist patrols and similar)
Horned: obedient general to evil tyrant
Ice: obedient strategist for evil tyrant
Imp: (no host required, but must be binded as familiar)
Lemure: ?
Pit fiend: evil tyrant who ruled over large fief

Inevitables: (host must be alive and have a clean criminal record)
Arbiter: (no host required, but must be binded as familiar)
Kolyarut: zelant enforcer of the law, like police officer or tax collectors
Lhaksharut: spellcaster who never tried to escape the demiplane nor summon outsiders in it
Marut: executioner or other lawfully sanctioned killer
Zelekhut: judge or similar figure deciding how the law is applied


Yugoloths: (host must be corpse of suicide?)

Ideas: the host being a living True Innocent may waive one or more conditions? What about Darklords or their corpses?

[Isabella]

I have to say I like this concept.

In my thoughts, a True Innocent would be a shoo-in for an angelic host. I suppose if one wanted to go for things like Carrie or Damien they could also be a shoo-in for demonic possession, though having that as a rule seems very... weird. I don't think I would go that way myself.

As an alternative to having all children easily possessed, it could just be any person with fiendish/tainted ancestry is a suitable host. It would leave even the most innocent child open to possession if they're unlucky, without making Innocence an even bigger liability than it already is. >.>

I think you may be having trouble finding suitable host bodies for imps, quasits, and lemures because they.... suck, a bit, and if I recall lemures are barely sentient. They don't really seem worth any manner of tragic backstory because they're designed to be diabolic cannon fodder. I'd be okay with calling them weak enough outsiders that you can call them in without trouble. Otherwise, I doubt you really need an overly specific host for such a creature, beyond them having the right alignment. If I recall correctly, lemures were what evil souls turned into when they first reached hell, so just using a generic living evil person to call a lemure sounds about right.

Are you planning to include the Agathions and Aeons as well? Likewise, what about Inevitables? (With a name like that, they sure sound like they'd fit in the setting)

[Sorti]

I have to say I like this concept.

I'm happy to hear that

In my thoughts, a True Innocent would be a shoo-in for an angelic host. I suppose if one wanted to go for things like Carrie or Damien they could also be a shoo-in for demonic possession, though having that as a rule seems very... weird. I don't think I would go that way myself.

As an alternative to having all children easily possessed, it could just be any person with fiendish/tainted ancestry is a suitable host. It would leave even the most innocent child open to possession if they're unlucky, without making Innocence an even bigger liability than it already is. >.>

Well, the evil cult needing an innocent for an evil ritual is a good old trope, but yeah it may be a little too easy to find one in Ravenloft... Break in an orphanage, kidnap a small guy, here is a host for Billy the Balor...
For angelic hosts they would be nice, but ideally the angel requires informed consent from the host for a procedure that will literally kill him; we could say that angels refuse to do this to children. For fiends, maybe you can make a ritual to "taint" a child but you have to wait a certain age / prepare him / something like that? Or has to have suitable ancestry as you say? Anyway yeah, innocence sucks, if I was in Ravenloft I'd backstab a friend just in case.

I think you may be having trouble finding suitable host bodies for imps, quasits, and lemures because they.... suck, a bit, and if I recall lemures are barely sentient. They don't really seem worth any manner of tragic backstory because they're designed to be diabolic cannon fodder. I'd be okay with calling them weak enough outsiders that you can call them in without trouble. Otherwise, I doubt you really need an overly specific host for such a creature, beyond them having the right alignment. If I recall correctly, lemures were what evil souls turned into when they first reached hell, so just using a generic living evil person to call a lemure sounds about right.

mmh... what if these minor ones bond with their host instead of possessing him? something like, you can summon a imp/quasit as a familiar for a wizard, or a lemure as a servant to a evil guy

Are you planning to include the Agathions and Aeons as well? Likewise, what about Inevitables? (With a name like that, they sure sound like they'd fit in the setting)

Of course! Expanding the list is one of the reason I'm sharing this . I remember the Inevitables but I'm not familiar with the other two though, so any input is welcome

[IrvyneWolfe]

Of course! Expanding the list is one of the reason I'm sharing this . I remember the Inevitables but I'm not familiar with the other two though, so any input is welcome

Those are races of NG and True Neutral Outsiders from Pathfinder.

Pathfinder does not lack for races of Outsiders. Hell Kytons got expanded into an entirely different race of LE fiends.

[Hamiclar]

check the transpossession rule its very similar to power checks which go in line for your fiend requirements. In game fluff the Madrigorian talks about this.

For it is the ultimate calling of we mortals to prepare our bodies and spirits through the most debased acts. Only by acting our secret desires that lurk in the darkest corners of our minds can we rid ourselves of the evil festering within us. Otherwise we will be forever unclean, full of impure thoughts and desires. But if we lance the festering boils our conscience create, we might be blessed with the attention of one of wandering Great Ones. And if we are truly vigorous and do not shirk acting out our innermost evil, then might such a Great One deign to reward us by translating his body our own. The pain of such a transposition will be glorious in its horror, but only through pain can we be cleansed. Then will we receive the highest honors as the Great Ones will take our place on the tainted land so that we might enjoy our just rewards.
The Madrigorian Book III Chapter VII


Cheers

using that rule for a character in my group which a shadow demon has taken interest in. I was going to see the phases of steps for transpossion the Shadow demon steps was my question.

[Isabella]

For angelic hosts they would be nice, but ideally the angel requires informed consent from the host for a procedure that will literally kill him; we could say that angels refuse to do this to children.

I suppose it depends on whether you're going with "the subject dies" or "the subject winds up in the plane the outsider came from". The latter is a one-way ticket to heaven, so you might argue good outsiders might be willing to do it. Otoh, I think Ryan Naylor brought a similar scenario up in another thread, which is that mundane humans, even good aligned ones, might not agree that this is a good thing.

For fiends, maybe you can make a ritual to "taint" a child but you have to wait a certain age / prepare him / something like that?

I think any rituals to "taint" people would have to be really involved, or else you'd run back into the "mass produced demon host" problem again.

mmh... what if these minor ones bond with their host instead of possessing him? something like, you can summon a imp/quasit as a familiar for a wizard, or a lemure as a servant to a evil guy

Azalin has a quasit familiar, IIRC. Those little demons are probably sucky enough that a sufficiently powerful wizard can probably yank them into the demiplane without too much trouble.

Of course! Expanding the list is one of the reason I'm sharing this . I remember the Inevitables but I'm not familiar with the other two though, so any input is welcome

Inevitables are personifications of planar laws, so their hosts would probably represent either the laws they're upholding, or the kinds of lawbreakers they hunt down. I'm going off the Pathfinder PRD here...

Arbiter: Arbiters are stated to be advisors and diplomats, so presumably any mortal who likewise fell into those two categories. Judges and consultants, perhaps?

Kolyarut: Enforcers of bargains, so likewise anyone who serves the same societal function. Lawyers, perhaps? (Objection!) Additionally, it might be possible to call one up and negotiate a contract with it, in which case anyone who negotiated said contract might be a potential host.

Lhaksharut: These guys are kind of weird. They're supposed to keep Planes separate. In other words... their role in Ravenloft would be to keep Ravenloft as severed from other Planes as possible. They also seem to prefer to work with spellcasters.
I'm not sure what kind of host would attract one of these, but it would seem to have to be a wizard with Knowledge:Ravenloft and yet who wants everything to remain imprisoned inside the demiplane?
I smell a plot hook.

Marut: These guys are meant to enforce the inevitability of death. So it could be a living executioner, soldier, or other lawfully sanctioned killer, but it could also be the corpse of someone who artificially prolonged their lifespans.

Zelekhut: These guys are supposed to be the cosmic force of justice, so maybe the corpse of an executed criminal, or the living body of an executioner, bounty hunter, judge, inquisitor, etc.

[Sorti]

For angelic hosts they would be nice, but ideally the angel requires informed consent from the host for a procedure that will literally kill him; we could say that angels refuse to do this to children.

I suppose it depends on whether you're going with "the subject dies" or "the subject winds up in the plane the outsider came from". The latter is a one-way ticket to heaven, so you might argue good outsiders might be willing to do it. Otoh, I think Ryan Naylor brought a similar scenario up in another thread, which is that mundane humans, even good aligned ones, might not agree that this is a good thing.

Yeah it could be reasonable to say that an angel would not deprive a child of his life, even to send him to heaven (otherwise they could reasonable start killing LG people...)

For fiends, maybe you can make a ritual to "taint" a child but you have to wait a certain age / prepare him / something like that?

I think any rituals to "taint" people would have to be really involved, or else you'd run back into the "mass produced demon host" problem again.

Mmmh... so in normal tropes in the genre, why don't cults grab random children for their nefarious purposes and need the protagonist's child? Is it just assumed that evil cults are stupid?

mmh... what if these minor ones bond with their host instead of possessing him? something like, you can summon a imp/quasit as a familiar for a wizard, or a lemure as a servant to a evil guy

Azalin has a quasit familiar, IIRC. Those little demons are probably sucky enough that a sufficiently powerful wizard can probably yank them into the demiplane without too much trouble.

Yeah, I'll just say that no host is required but it must be binded to a person as a familiar or servant.

Inevitables are personifications of planar laws, so their hosts would probably represent either the laws they're upholding, or the kinds of lawbreakers they hunt down. I'm going off the Pathfinder PRD here...

Arbiter: Arbiters are stated to be advisors and diplomats, so presumably any mortal who likewise fell into those two categories. Judges and consultants, perhaps?

Kolyarut: Enforcers of bargains, so likewise anyone who serves the same societal function. Lawyers, perhaps? (Objection!) Additionally, it might be possible to call one up and negotiate a contract with it, in which case anyone who negotiated said contract might be a potential host.

Lhaksharut: These guys are kind of weird. They're supposed to keep Planes separate. In other words... their role in Ravenloft would be to keep Ravenloft as severed from other Planes as possible. They also seem to prefer to work with spellcasters.
I'm not sure what kind of host would attract one of these, but it would seem to have to be a wizard with Knowledge:Ravenloft and yet who wants everything to remain imprisoned inside the demiplane?
I smell a plot hook.

Marut: These guys are meant to enforce the inevitability of death. So it could be a living executioner, soldier, or other lawfully sanctioned killer, but it could also be the corpse of someone who artificially prolonged their lifespans.

Zelekhut: These guys are supposed to be the cosmic force of justice, so maybe the corpse of an executed criminal, or the living body of an executioner, bounty hunter, judge, inquisitor, etc.

Great! adding this to the original post...

[Sorti]

Arbiters seem to be the imps of the inevitables, so I added the familiar clause. For Lhaksharut, I put a spellcaster who may have violated planar boundaries by summoning outsiders or trying to leave but never did. I don't want the restriction to be extremely specific; the hit dice requirement for the host means that for the big guys like the Lhaksharut you won't have many candidates anyway.