3rd Ed vs 2nd Ed

[Don Fernando]

As far as the gaz's go, I liked them because they seemed a bit more subtle and made the world a little more believable as a world (and thus an entity where a gothic/supernatural horror would be played in better.) I saw 'S' as far from omniscient, as I recall Azalin chewing her out several times in each Gazetteer. I also liked it because it hinted at a lot of stuff and left you to fill in the blanks- and because it's an "in-character" work, any of it I wanted could've been true. However, that doesn't seem like your experience, so I'll move on.

That's exactly the thing that I actually didn't like about the whole S sub-plot. Why go into detail for every single thing the land has to offer but not the actual secrets it holds? The easy work was done in great detail, but you had to fill the blanks on more important stuff, cannon stuff. Whereas the fleshing out of the land could esaily be done by the DM and the dark stuff could have been included in the books. But that's just me.

I would agree with Gonzoron. I like the 3rd edition line and I didn't buy the CoD and HoL because of what I read here about them.

Hahaha although I actually didn't buy anything else after I bought those books, both of them really epitomized what I felt on the whole line at that time. Sad really that both books were actually failures in the line and I didn't get to read much more. But, hey that's what I was looking for in this thread, to identify any books I might use in my campaigns.

Suffice to say you and I see the 3e line very differently. (And again, that's completely fine! Different Strokes, and all that...) I miss the full-color cover paintings and maps too, but the 3e interior artwork is beautiful and atmospheric. And the typos and poor editing are unfortunate blemishes on what is, at its core, excellent work. The presentation could have been better, but the essence is fantastic. I'd much rather have well thought out and useful ideas presented poorly than poor, useless ideas presented beautifully.

Or would you rather have a good presentation and great useful ideas wrapped in a good book? I sure would.

As for the artwork, it's a matter of personal taste really. I was never fond of the artwork included in 3rd ed. and always considered the 2nd ed artwork superior. There was a certain kind of detail and caring I could not place in the artwork for 3rd ed.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Or would you rather have a good presentation and great useful ideas wrapped in a good book? I sure

Nah.... who needs it?

Of course, that goes without saying. But such perfection is rarely achieved in either the 2e or 3e line. The budgets Arthaus was working with clearly didn't allow for the level of beautiful maps and boxed sets the 2e line had. But you can have a beautiful boxed set that has something like Requiem: The Grim Harvest inside. They can't all be Castles Forlorn.

[Skyrock]

Domains of Dread for 2E still meets the sweet spot for me between brevity and depth.
The Gazetteers were nice in theory (and had some nice ideas and bits), but felt too constricting to me. There was also the trouble with being unable to cover protected IPs like Soth or Vecna.

What 3E did right was to cover religion (especially important in gothic fiction), and it did so with style and panache.

[Zilfer]

For what it's worth the board is diverse in opinions and draws from all walks of life I think. I like 3e but I came in being younger generation into that system. I use pathfinder now but I immensely enjoyed the 3e material. I will admit my one thing I don't like about Gaz is the lack of TELLING me what they meant in vagueness. I know they try to leave a lot up to the DM to figure out so I can be applied to anyone's campaign however I like already knowing the story and changing it myself if I don't like it. XD

Anyways it sounds like you have all you need since most of the 3e stuff you don't really need by the sounds of it especially if you don't like my favorite Gazetteers!!! o.o' I didn't know there was anyone that didn't like them! *Shocked*

[Don Fernando]

Oh no! Surely I´m not be the only one that didn't like 3rd. I shall find more people like me!!

In all seriousness though. it's not that I hate 3rd. since I haven't read all the published works out there. But what I read wasn't of my liking. Now of course there should be some outstanding books from the series, and that's what I'm after. Everything else I'll take from 2nd ed stuff and of course this great Rloft site.

[alhoon]

There was another one... Cole Deschain I think. He hated 3rd edition.

[order99]

Well, 3rd Edition leaves me a little cool compared to 2nd, but I bought the stuff for both anyway (mostly Masque rather than Ravenloft but a bit of Ravenloft also). I pretty much picked up anything I could afford at the time and then rid myself of the ones I didn't like as much via used bookstores for credit on stuff I DID like, etc ad nauseum. Ended up with a straight 2E game of MotRD, with a few guests from Ravenloft and 3E's 'sinkholes of Evil' bit for extra flavor...and threw Holmes' 'Scrolls for 100 GP and a Week's reasearch rule because the Adept go SO Nerfed spell wise.

Just between us Trapped Souls...I have never run a Pure, BTB anything

I wouldn't worry about 2E vs 3E or even D20 vs non-D20, canon vs non-canon or even game supplement vs book vs movie. Find enormous amounts of Cool Stuff that fires off your brain, find the system you like and use it, and do Handwavium Conversion to your Fave System as needed. I have played with GM's who used GURPS, Warhammer Fantasy, Amazing Engine and Deadlands for thier Ravenloft-and while I have stuck with 2E so far my gang's favorite adventure to date in MotRD involved the Daredevil adventure Deadly Coins (I turned the Ninjas into Yugoslav refugee gangs and substituted the Sewers of Paris for Chinatown-worked great!). Also, the next time we play i'm going to steal a certain Ravenloftian Darklord and his Theatre, put it in the Paris Opera House and bewilder my Players with a sudden rendition of Mario Bava's Planet of the Vampires, heh heh heh...

It's your game-use anything you want, ignore Canon/non-canon and serve the results blood warm...

[Dion of the Fraternity]

Lore-wise I tend to balance the fluff of 2E, 3E and 4E, simply because there's stuff in these three editions that are absent from each other. In any case, none of my Ravenloft campaigns so far had players asking me specific questions such as "What exactly are the most common species of plant life found in the Balinoks?" and all that, so details don't really come into the picture unless I really want to emphasize a good backdrop for where/when the adventures are taking place.

Then again I'm an RPG cannibal, so I tend to get my stories/ideas from anywhere. Here are my examples:

- Instead of Ravenloft's "levels of power" for vampires, I tend to use a heavily home-brewed "Blood Potency" ability (Vampire the Requiem). The same goes for the other creatures of the night ("Hamartia" rules for mummies, etc.)

- Instead of alignment, I use Roads (Dark Ages: Vampire).

- Instead of conventional D&D magic rules, I use Foundations and Pillars (Dark Ages: Mage).

- Instead of the typical unplayable pureblood Vistani that prevails in both 2E and 3E, I use rules for Ra'shari (L5R: Burning Sands) and 4E Vistani.

- Instead of just the combat-oriented characters of D&D as a whole, I also have courtiers and scholars (L5R), which I think are a perfect fit for Ravenloft.

- And if my players are roleplaying their characters good enough, I auction the hell out boons like a mother (Amber RPG).



So yeah, I'm crazy that way.

[Skyrock]

I think some 10 years since the last official Ravenloft book came out, and with each version covering ground that others lack, mixing & matching is more the standard than a perverted pleasure of a few degenerates

[alhoon]

Seems that way, yes. I still haven't managed to use 4E tiefling domain, but I may visit it once.

[Alastor]

Then again I'm an RPG cannibal, so I tend to get my stories/ideas from anywhere. Here are my examples:

- Instead of Ravenloft's "levels of power" for vampires, I tend to use a heavily home-brewed "Blood Potency" ability (Vampire the Requiem). The same goes for the other creatures of the night ("Hamartia" rules for mummies, etc.)

- Instead of alignment, I use Roads (Dark Ages: Vampire).

- Instead of conventional D&D magic rules, I use Foundations and Pillars (Dark Ages: Mage).

- Instead of the typical unplayable pureblood Vistani that prevails in both 2E and 3E, I use rules for Ra'shari (L5R: Burning Sands) and 4E Vistani.

- Instead of just the combat-oriented characters of D&D as a whole, I also have courtiers and scholars (L5R), which I think are a perfect fit for Ravenloft.

- And if my players are roleplaying their characters good enough, I auction the hell out boons like a mother (Amber RPG).

Interesting. How do you manage to have everything work together mechanically?

How does the standing of a character on their particular road interact with the Path of Corruption? Are they syncronized in some way, or would it be possible for Drakov and Elena Faith-hold to hold perfectly to the Roads of Kings and Heaven respectively, despite each being entirely corrupt?

[Dion of the Fraternity]

Mechanics-wise, they all needed a lot of heavy tweaking, especially since I now use a bastardized love-child of 5E and L5R for my Ravenloft games.

I've altered the Path of Corruption into something akin to Shadowlands Taint mechanics in L5R, something that's more reactive than passive. Elena Faith-Hold would therefore be way low on her Road rating, but it doesn't manifest physically: it's more mental for her.