Malken

[Mister]

Hello,

Haven't been around in a while, but I'm still kicking around in my headspace. I had a thread a while back about a potential usurpation of the Lawgiver's clergy by the Wolf God. I haven't given up on that idea, but I still struggle with a way to reconcile the various moving pieces.

One big piece is Nova Vassa. It's cosmopolitan-enough and developed-enough to be a solid starting point for a campaign. It is a place for the PCs to develop a reputation that might earn them a visit from the church and a mission west into wolf country (and probably through Hazlan, Invidia, and Barovia?).

I've looked through the Gazetteer and to be honest, I can't remember a lot of details. Take that more as a memory failure than a criticism of content. I know there's a strong horse culture and five families and a prince who won't give up the throne. I view it primarily as a country with a lot of plainsland for horses and a bit of a bastion of civilization or culture in the southeast corner of the Core. Strong Russian Empire influences. Maybe I've read or recollected it wrong.

Hiregaard is.. eh - as far as I'm aware, that facet is a proper ladycharmer (Malken being the ladykiller) who is split between loyalty to "the proper way of things" and a job-well-done as a sort of police officer or public servant.

Malken, the other side of the coin, is a Mr. Hyde figure - impulsive, sadistic, and criminal.

I struggle with what sort of criminal empire Malken has truly built up and what sort of direction it has. Is it purely about local power and luxury? Unseating the government? Embarrassing Hiregaard? Is he Moriarty, Capone, Fisk, Cutting, or just a dangerous loner no one messes with? How does he maintain his influence - I don't mean just through fear and murder, but rather some sort of "vision" for whatever organization he's got? What story does he tell his minions to inspire or instill trust?

I don't plan to use Malken as a protagonist - he's not going to be an enemy the PCs might face. But I want to understand how he influences Nova Vassa, the land. And the cities.

.

Finally, a few quick details that have nagged at me... I know it's a demiplane and not actually "real", but when you head south, is it just trees and more trees? I don't want to always throw "the mists swallow you up and you find yourselves walking back out onto the roads north/in another domain/wherever". If I sail the seas south or north, it's easy to just be more sea - but what if I'm in sight of shore - either Darkon or Nova Vassa? I don't want -my- in-game answer to be "well, it's misty..." Endless sea, endless trees, endless mountains?

Similarly, is there a name for the land beyond "The Core"? Oerth, Toril, Krynn, Mars, etc? How do people refer to the collective "world"? Like a farmer or a philosopher or someone who's not going to talk about it as a demiplane. That title kind of prompts "the core of what?"

[alhoon]

I have had the same questions about Malken's criminal empire...
I know that's not the most useful post, but I make it all the same.

About the end of the map: For better or worse... it's mists. You enter the Mists and you get lost in them. You may end up somewhere else, but you'll probably just die by the horrors that live within.

[Mister]

About the end of the map: For better or worse... it's mists. You enter the Mists and you get lost in them. You may end up somewhere else, but you'll probably just die by the horrors that live within.

I really want to dispel some of the more obviously magical elements of the land if I'm able to pull together a story to run. I don't want the "edges of the known world" to just drop of into ellipsis. I want to save the obviously magical for climactic moments - a dark and hazy world that abides by the accepted rules of reality until it doesn't. Rather than having everyone say "oh, ya, the mists rise in the forest and that's all there is south".

I'm struggling in the same fashion with things like the Shadow Rift. Tough to simply turn it into an inland lake without acknowledging how an inland lake would impact coastal towns, fish for food, trade, and so on. I don't want something so obviously unnatural there to "prepare" them mentally.

I love a lot of the setting, but there are a lot of places where I want to ease back and try to emphasize the horror over the fantasy.

.

As for Malken, I can see him acting like Hyde - a brute in the poorer districts, a man not to be trifled with and who takes what he wants and acts with impunity. Almost like Marv from Sin City in reputation - a mountainous, monster of a man that you avoid if you can and flee if you can't. But taking that sort of brutish threat and turning it into a calculating leader... some details are missing.

Do you see him more as Moriarty or more as the Joker? Is he meant to be a planner or a firebrand?

[Ryan Naylor]

I think Malken should be more like Al Capone. He's dangerously unstable, but reliable enough, and knows how to get and maintain loyalty from his underlings. The criminal empire he heads is very much like Capone's too - there's gambling, alcohol, prostitution, animal fighting, etc as the "slightly illegal" side of things, but there's also extortion, protection money, money laundering, removing opponents, perversion of justice, and general brutality of the "really illegal" side of things.

One of the images that sticks in my mind from The Enemy Within is Malken wearing a fish head mask with a hook in it's mouth. He'll offer you any service you require, no questions asked, but once he's got a hold on you, you're his forever.

One of Nova Vaasa's themes is hypocrisy. Malken feeds on and nurtures that hypocrisy.

[Mister]

One of Nova Vaasa's themes is hypocrisy. Malken feeds on and nurtures that hypocrisy.

I appreciate you calling this out. It's a good thing to have in mind.


Does Malken make use of lieutenants of note?

I can see Malken cowing a gang and then proving reliable for things like dissuading investigations, eliminating competition, or guaranteeing supply. I suppose I wonder a) how he started and b) how he maintains the administration aspect, especially when he vanishes into Hiregaard. I suppose it's just a matter of not knowing enough about the setting there.

With how big Nova Vassa is, does Malken keep to the cities or is his influence felt in the rural communities too? I know he's got that Red Talon blackmail info on Othmaar (Talon? Bear? Something.), but beyond that, how wide is his reach? Is Malken the "Crimelord of the Core"? How does he stack up against the illegal groups of, say, Darkon or the Brain in Dementlieu? I guess I'm asking how famous Nova Vassa's crime problem is. Is it like Capone and Chicago, where that's the reputation the city just -had- for years?

[alhoon]

I really want to dispel some of the more obviously magical elements of the land if I'm able to pull together a story to run.
...
I love a lot of the setting, but there are a lot of places where I want to ease back and try to emphasize the horror over the fantasy.

You have a tough road ahead of you then.
Ravenloft since its conception was supposed to be a magical land. You have Strahd Zombies crying "Straaaahd", you have walls of fire rising up in Hazlan's border, you have tens of thousands of zombies spontaneously rising in Darkon to repel invaders and you have a former metropolis with 20K undead in the middle of Darkon, covered in an insta-kill-and-undead-making shroud.

All those were made by the creators of each place to be blunt enough. You can retcon them buuut ...
You'll be much, much better served in a homebrew domain\cluster with low magic. Do you like Nova Vaasa and Malken? Make a similar domain with a similar Darklord and be done with all your problems.
It could be surrounded by tricky ocean, by unforgiving desert or by deadly jungle.
People that wander too far don't reach the mists; they perish. Or they reach other lands (beyond the "mists")

[Ryan Naylor]

Does Malken make use of lieutenants of note?

I can see Malken cowing a gang and then proving reliable for things like dissuading investigations, eliminating competition, or guaranteeing supply. I suppose I wonder a) how he started and b) how he maintains the administration aspect, especially when he vanishes into Hiregaard. I suppose it's just a matter of not knowing enough about the setting there.

With how big Nova Vassa is, does Malken keep to the cities or is his influence felt in the rural communities too? I know he's got that Red Talon blackmail info on Othmaar (Talon? Bear? Something.), but beyond that, how wide is his reach? Is Malken the "Crimelord of the Core"? How does he stack up against the illegal groups of, say, Darkon or the Brain in Dementlieu? I guess I'm asking how famous Nova Vassa's crime problem is. Is it like Capone and Chicago, where that's the reputation the city just -had- for years?

I would think he would have to. Each city might have one or two lieutenants overseeing things, with the threat of Malken dropping in unannounced (and getting violent if he's upset or disappointed) keeping them in line.

It's unclear how much time he's Malken and how much time he's Hiregaard, but remember that Malken is the lord and Hiregaard the curse, not the other way around, and that Hiregaard presumably has to travel a lot from his responsibilities (thus also allowing Malken to get around).

I would think Malken is mostly interested in the cities, because that's where most of the opportunities are. Only mostly, though.

He might have influence in Hazlan or the Nocturnal Sea (trading opium from Hazlan etc), but the Shadow Rift and the Balinoks cut him off from the rest of the Core. That's only my opinion though - go with what your campaign needs. I would say the reputation of Nova Vaasa's cities as debauched, horrific slums is widely known though.

On Dementlieu, both the Brain and Dominic have their fingers in criminal pies, but they're so locked into a struggle for control that they're not that outwardly focused. The Kargat controls or monitors crime to some extent in Darkon. The Reniers and Dilisnyas are more unscrupulous businessmen than overt criminals. So yes, he's probably the most famous crimelord in the Core.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

If you don't like the Mists, take them out. Canonically they are a dense wall of fog leading to a formless misty void that may or may not lead back out to the same place you entered or somewhere else entirely. There are good reasons to keep them, and you can play them up as more mysterious and creepy than fantastical. (Think "Blair Witch Project" or "The Others") But if it doesn't work for you, you're the DM. And people play campaigns in Dementlieu or Borca just fine, and neither has a Misty Border, so it's not essential. You can either add more lands of your choice there, or just replace the Mists with more sea. I can't find it now, but I know I've seen a map someone made of Ravenloft as a traditional world with no Mists. Closest I can find right now is this map where someone mashed up Ravenloft and Golarion: http://dassovietcanuck.deviantart.com/a ... -433983396

BTW, "The Core" isn't something said in-game. The inhabitants call it simply "The World" or "The Land of the Mists"

[Mister]

Regarding the magical land and taking bits out, I think that a lot of it can be downplayed. You (the PCs) may need to do a bit to shake the beehive before they come across truly unhuman monsters. "Let's wander off the beaten path and poke around that abandoned castle that everyone says is haunted!" Some of the more fantastic events can be passed off as legend - "the day the dead defended Darkon". My aim there is so that when the PCs do finally encounter something like a Strahd Zombie or a werewolf, they really know that something serious is up, that it's dangerous. This isn't right, this isn't natural... "Here be monsters".

That's one reason I'm looking so closely at Malken - because Nova Vassa seems like a more civilized land than, say, Tepest. There's plenty of information on Dementlieu, and that's another "hub" that I've been looking at as a campaign center.

The "debauched slums" is good to know. That opium note is fantastic. Same with the crimelord deal - though is Malken's name famous? In Dementlieu, would they talk about Malken's latest offense in the news or parlours?

Gonzoron, if you recall where that "traditional world" map might be, I'd love to take a look at it. The Golarion-Ravenloft map was pretty neat.

Thank you, everyone, for your responses.

[jamesfirecat]

Regarding the magical land and taking bits out, I think that a lot of it can be downplayed. You (the PCs) may need to do a bit to shake the beehive before they come across truly unhuman monsters. "Let's wander off the beaten path and poke around that abandoned castle that everyone says is haunted!" Some of the more fantastic events can be passed off as legend - "the day the dead defended Darkon". My aim there is so that when the PCs do finally encounter something like a Strahd Zombie or a werewolf, they really know that something serious is up, that it's dangerous. This isn't right, this isn't natural... "Here be monsters".

That's one reason I'm looking so closely at Malken - because Nova Vassa seems like a more civilized land than, say, Tepest. There's plenty of information on Dementlieu, and that's another "hub" that I've been looking at as a campaign center.

The "debauched slums" is good to know. That opium note is fantastic. Same with the crimelord deal - though is Malken's name famous? In Dementlieu, would they talk about Malken's latest offense in the news or parlours?

Gonzoron, if you recall where that "traditional world" map might be, I'd love to take a look at it. The Golarion-Ravenloft map was pretty neat.

Thank you, everyone, for your responses.

Malken is probably not so famous that he is well known in Dementilieu on the other side of the core, but they have probably heard of him in Barovia, possibly in Tepest.

Also I see Malken as Moriarty by way of the Joker, if that makes any sense at all.

He has built/connected/taken over this huge criminal empire, but he did not build it to make money for himself, he after all has access to all of Tristen's wealth, he built it because he wanted to see if he could build it, he wanted to prove just how rotten and debasesed the people of Nova Vassa really are.

I am sorry that I missed out onto much of this debate because Nova Vassa and Malken are interests of mine, but I was away on vacation.

Another thing to keep in mind is there is a scene in Enemy Within where Malken spends some time talking about how beautiful and expensive a statue is, then smashes it, just because he could. He likes to have pretty things, he likes to break pretty things.

One of his key points in my opinion is that Malken should hold himself above the great sin of all the hypocrisy that so fills Nova Vassa, and would probably believe that at the very least he practices what he preaches when it comes to power, control and doing what you wish simply because you wish it rather than dressing it up in nice words. Now how true or not that is can be left up to each individual DM. But one thing for sure is that he's designed his criminal enterprises to feed on that very hypocrisy in every single place he can find it.

Also remember Malken's power is in money, blackmail, and being simply to well hidden rather than any sort of massive CR or combat abilities. At the end of the day the most impressive stuff he could probably do is summon up some plains cats. Of course he isn't bothered by this, either because of sheer bravado or because he knows the 'Malken curse' will just body jump to the next of Tristen's children. Most of all he isn't bothered by the fact that he's no Azalin or Strahd in personal combat because he has people to fight for him, and lack of physical strength is immaterial when there's no one in Nova Vassa with the moral strength to oppose him. Except for Tristen of course, but Malken considers him to be the biggest hypocrite of them all, at one point in Enemy Within telling Tristen to his face, that the only reason Tristen is able to consider himself a hero (as he spends the novel doing more and more drastic things to try and stop Malken) is because he has Malken to worry about and Tristen is left speechless.

At one point I have some plans for also "humanizing"/better getting inside Malken's head by portraying him as trying and failing to recruit a female Nova Vassan vampire to be one of his lieutenants because he is/was impressed with her depravity...

It's easy to write adventures around Strahd or Azalin because they have distinct things that they want but can't have, Malken not much, so it's best to come up with a particular crime or desire of his which can be just about anything (see the example with the vampire above or could be as simple as figuring out a way to get an ungelded male Nova Vassan horse across the border) but it has to be SOMETHING and once you think of what you want it to be build out from there.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Gonzoron, if you recall where that "traditional world" map might be, I'd love to take a look at it. The Golarion-Ravenloft map was pretty neat.

Well, I dug and dug and couldn't find it. I thought someone posted it here, but my search-fu is too weak. Sorry. Maybe someone else knows what I'm remembering and can find it. Good luck.

[Dark Angel]

Gonzoron, if you recall where that "traditional world" map might be, I'd love to take a look at it. The Golarion-Ravenloft map was pretty neat.

Well, I dug and dug and couldn't find it. I thought someone posted it here, but my search-fu is too weak. Sorry. Maybe someone else knows what I'm remembering and can find it. Good luck.

This it?

http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... f=1&t=9237

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... f=1&t=9237

Nope, that's still got the Mists. The one I'm thinking of had all the clusters laid out on one map, and connected to the core by land or water.

[Dark Angel]

Well I am not 100% sure which map, I am trying to help (and am not just self promoting my own map)...

This it?

http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/wiki ... enloft.JPG

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Well I am not 100% sure which map, I am trying to help (and am not just self promoting my own map)...

and the effort is appreciated, but unfortunately, I don't think that was it either. In my memory, it wasn't hand-drawn. But it's possible it isn't accessible anymore (maybe it was on the RAVENLOFT-L list, or the Kargatane boards, or elsewhere.) It's also possible I hallucinated the whole thing.