Baron Lyron Evensong

[thekristhomas]

Inspired by DeepShadow's researches on Liffe, I have been re-reading BoCrypts, the source of much of the lore of that place, and have had a few thoughts that I wanted to share without derailing someone else's thread.

Firstly, I get that the whole point of his curse is time distortion, but the numbers that get bandied about in the adventure don't make sense to me (maybe one of you can make sense where I have failed).

His curse is to live in normal time during daylight hours, but each night lasts, for him and anyone trapped with him in his study, for a century. OK so far. The adventure says he has lived 700 years this way, but when he is asked how many times this has happened, he says over 13 and he's lost count, which is nearly twice that.

Whether he's been through it 7 times or over 13, that's still less than a month that the rest of the world has experienced, is Claveria between a week and a month old during the events of BoCrypts?

It's every day that this happens, and the BoCrypts suggests that while he managed the first couple of times alone, he now insists on company, mostly, it seems, a party of several. So that's several people disappearing from Claveria every day, 365 days a year from the formation of Claveria, which predates the formation of Liffe, to the present day. How many thousand people has he disappeared?

What got me excited upon reading the adventure was the idea of Lyron's Study being an "escape room", for those who might not be familiar, escape rooms are RW puzzle rooms that you and your friends get locked in and by solving the puzzles, get out. (recently featured in episodes of Brooklyn Nine Nine and the Big Bang Theory )

But I felt the puzzle to this quest was a little simple, smash the harpsichord, which IMHO is something that many PC groups would have been considering before the doors even locked, which is a shame because a good escape room structure dovetails well, to my thinking, with a single role playing session

[The Lesser Evil]

Yeah, the Book of Crypts has a few interesting (and weird!) ideas but the execution leaves... something to be desired. There's a few things you might do though:

The Nocturnal Seas Gazetteer does a good job of revising him. Basically, he can control the passage of time for the other people in the manor, such as it doesn't pass for them like it does for him. So they don't necessarily have to die inside of there.

Secondly, the Book of Crypts also describes a "features black void" that lies outside of the house if they physically go outside. To me, featureless black void basically screams for a mystery for the DM to fill in, whether it be the shadow plane that leads to the Shadow Rift or even a backdoor to the Obsidian Gate, the shadow cities of Falkovnia, or other really weird places that the DM chooses.

Another idea is to take the books listed on his shelf and turn them into a series of demiplanes the characters have to pass through to discern the exit and/or figure out the mystery of Byron's backstory. Or maybe take a note from Lemot Sediam Juste and have various illusory characters (perhaps from the books?) show up for a dinner party of some kind, perhaps the evening could play out like a session of Clue might.

Other ideas for Evensong:
-he searches for intelligent undead companions or members of other long-lived races (Sithican elves, or Andres Duvall might be quite entertaining for him)
-his men go out and kidnap interesting people from the mainland to be his guests.

[Hazgarn]

What got me excited upon reading the adventure was the idea of Lyron's Study being an "escape room", for those who might not be familiar, escape rooms are RW puzzle rooms that you and your friends get locked in and by solving the puzzles, get out. (recently featured in episodes of Brooklyn Nine Nine and the Big Bang Theory )

But I felt the puzzle to this quest was a little simple, smash the harpsichord, which IMHO is something that many PC groups would have been considering before the doors even locked, which is a shame because a good escape room structure dovetails well, to my thinking, with a single role playing session

I've never heard of doing this IRL, but I'm a big fan of the "room escape" genre of point-and-click flash games. They might be a good source of inspiration for anyone trying to retooling the curse to require more puzzle solving. A lot of them are very creepy, atmospheric, or downright surreal. The "Cube Escape" series even had a few puzzles based around music, I think.

(I don't have Book of Crypts, so my understanding of the material mostly comes from DeepShadow's threads. Mostly throwing out ideas into the wind.)

[jamesfirecat]

I've never heard of doing this IRL, but I'm a big fan of the "room escape" genre of point-and-click flash games. They might be a good source of inspiration for anyone trying to retooling the curse to require more puzzle solving. A lot of them are very creepy, atmospheric, or downright surreal. The "Cube Escape" series even had a few puzzles based around music, I think.

(I don't have Book of Crypts, so my understanding of the material mostly comes from DeepShadow's threads. Mostly throwing out ideas into the wind.)

If you're going to mention point and click "room escape" games it would be a shame not to mention The Seventh Guest, which while it is somewhat dated (especially one puzzle with awkwardly linked difficulty straight to computer processing power, meaning you end up effectively playing Chess against Deep Blue if you have anything approaching a modern computer) it just reeks of appropriate gothic atmosphere.... I think I even recall one bit of fan material that wrote up the backstory for the game as the setting for a minor Island of Terror.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

The Seventh Guest, ....I think I even recall one bit of fan material that wrote up the backstory for the game as the setting for a minor Island of Terror.

http://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Hijikal

Man, I loved that game (and it's sequel, the 11th hour). Is the chess puzzle you're talking about the one with the goo-balls? It was a pain to beat even on my college roommate's Pentium 2. If it scales to processing power, it would be nigh-impossible now. (There was a app-game called Pobs with similar rules that was fun.)

[jamesfirecat]

http://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Hijikal

Man, I loved that game (and it's sequel, the 11th hour). Is the chess puzzle you're talking about the one with the goo-balls? It was a pain to beat even on my college roommate's Pentium 2. If it scales to processing power, it would be nigh-impossible now. (There was a app-game called Pobs with similar rules that was fun.)

It is the one that is triggered by clicking on the microscope, so we're probably thinking of the same one, just to be clear, not the ACTUAL chess puzzle that involves moving a bunch of chess pieces around without ever positioning them so that they could take one another, but one that pits you in a battle against the AI. Sadly the programmers of the game failed to see into the future and realize that computers would be getting fast, like really really REALLY fast.

I hear that 11th Hour had the exact same problem, except it was even more obvious/badly placed because that puzzle was the very last one in the game that you had to actually beat rather than just using the hint book to skip.

In general one amusing scene involving the Baron I had was a vampire attaching rope to itself and seeing just how far the darkness went since they don't have to worry about running out air... but quickly find they don't have enough rope to get anywhere/it starts to get so cold their body is in danger of completely freezing even with 15 Cold CR and X/+Y damage resistance (X and Y changing based on age of vampire.)

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

It is the one that is triggered by clicking on the microscope, so we're probably thinking of the same one,

That's the one. more like othello/reversi than chess, really, but yeah.

[jamesfirecat]

That's the one. more like othello/reversi than chess, really, but yeah.

Yeah I know it was imprecise due to the actual "chess" challenge in that game, but chess is my go to analogy for an example of of a mental puzzle that computers have just flat out "learned" how to do better than we humans possibly can by this point.

[Brandi]

Back in college (I'm old), someone tackled that microscope puzzle by running the very similar 7-Up Magic Spot puzzle game and manually entering its results into 7th Guest.

ETA: This site says both Magic Spot and the microscope puzzle were designed by Graeme Devine, which would just figure.

[The Lesser Evil]

Off topic and I hope not to hijack, but it's good to see more fan material getting discussed. (Especially the lesser known stuff like the treasures the FoS saved from Alanik Ray's site). The Ravenloft community on the net has created/continues to create create really neat things and even worlds of Ravenloft all their own.

I'm also glad I guessed right on the source for that domain in entering it into the Mistipedia- I have never played the game before so I had to do a little poking around on google.
7th Guest sounds like an interesting game tho.

Though the writeup is a little bit disjointed if you're not familiar with the game, Hijikal and its DL sounds like it would make for a harrowing adventure as typical of a pocket domain. His backstory is great enough that you'd almost want to go out and investigate things related to his past and then go back into the tower several times rather than just be stuck inside of it all the time.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I always figured that the Baron's curse didn't allow for a proper exploration of a gothic background. I wondered if it would be better to use an idea like Silent Hill 4: The Room. The heroes would be trapped in the room and can make escapes, but only into pockets of time from the Baron's history. In this way, the heroes are more like classical gothic protagonists in that their role is to bring to light horrible, forgotten secrets.
Each of the time pockets contains a key or clue which is needed to open a later pocket, culminating in a final battle.
Maybe just to be cruel, the final battle may be impossible to win - but it does allow the heroes to open one final pocket which takes them to a time just before they got locked in the study. This leaves the baron trapped, alone, but with all of his hidden secrets revealed which forces him to re-live his awful past, alone, adinfinitum.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

I always figured that the Baron's curse didn't allow for a proper exploration of a gothic background. I wondered if it would be better to use an idea like Silent Hill 4: The Room. The heroes would be trapped in the room and can make escapes, but only into pockets of time from the Baron's history. In this way, the heroes are more like classical gothic protagonists in that their role is to bring to light horrible, forgotten secrets.
Each of the time pockets contains a key or clue which is needed to open a later pocket, culminating in a final battle.
Maybe just to be cruel, the final battle may be impossible to win - but it does allow the heroes to open one final pocket which takes them to a time just before they got locked in the study. This leaves the baron trapped, alone, but with all of his hidden secrets revealed which forces him to re-live his awful past, alone, adinfinitum.

This is the best idea for Evensong I've ever heard. I wasn't sure if my Liffe campaign would get to staying the night in his manor, but now I'll have to make it happen somehow.

At the risk of pressing my luck, I still don't really get Evensong's motives or backstory, and would love help wrapping my head around that. The NoSGaz tries, but all I get from it is that he committed multiple murders to make an extremely arcane and nitpicky philosophical argument as to how he wasn't a bad bard, everyone was just a bad audience (unlike Lemot Sediam Juste, who killed his players and audience because of...the exact same thing). And his punishment is to spend 100 years or so alone every evening. This punishment fits the crime...how?

It may be there in the rewrite, I just don't get it. Nor do I get why he is trying to stamp out continental influences on his island.

You've all helped me improve on so many other concepts on Liffe, if we can just get this one more, that would truly be awesome!

[The Lesser Evil]

I see Evensong as something of an "enlightened psychopath", though certainly not the former and perhaps entirely the latter. Basically, he cares about humanity's betterment and enlightenment on an abstract level. However, when it comes to actual individuals, he doesn't really view them as people in the same sense that he views himself. He doesn't respect their ability to choose or think for themselves. It's up to him to properly educate them and lead the way. If certain examples try to resist his lessons, he may have to put them down like rabid dogs.

Evensong is a vile, vile man who has adopted a guise of enlightenment and morality in order to keep his narcissistic mantle of civility. You could think of him as a Planescape dustman, but, unlike them, Evensong's willing (or perhaps was, before his imprisonment) to bend minds and kill to rid people of their attachments. Because Evensong doesn't consider his fellow humans as people, he doesn't think of their feelings or opinions as valid. They are somewhere between animals that must be trained and wayward children that must be educated to him.

The character with the closest philosophical match-up I can think of is Genkaku from Deadman Wonderland (although the latter is obviously a lot less refined and subtle and a lot more oriented towards violence and death.) or perhaps Andrew Ryan from the Bioshock games (Evensong's isolationist element in the Nocturnal Seas Gazetteer reminds me of him- though Evensong is surely more evil and concerned with "conversion".) You could think of Evensong's screeds as a horrible conglomeration of the detachment of Buddhism coupled with the self-focus of objectivism, both taken to dark extremes.

It is because of the baron's condescension towards his fellow human beings as objects that he is doomed to spend a good chunk of each night's century without him. He believed he was above his fellow humans like some demi-god, so he will outlive them, over and over again. However, it turns out that Evensong is not completely without attachment himself, as the loneliness eats at him. Not in the same way that a person might miss another person's company, but how a master might miss a pet or a favored piece of property.

As to why Evensong might be civil to the PCs, I would take it like Poison Ivy when she met Batman in Batman the Animated Series. At first she naturally assumed Batman would be on her side because he goes about fighting crime and doing justice outside the system. So Baron Evensong might believe such guests (of a higher caliber than the rest of the rabble) might already subscribe to his views.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

I see Evensong as something of an "enlightened psychopath", though certainly not the former and perhaps entirely the latter. Basically, he cares about humanity's betterment and enlightenment on an abstract level. However, when it comes to actual individuals, he doesn't really view them as people in the same sense that he views himself. He doesn't respect their ability to choose or think for themselves. It's up to him to properly educate them and lead the way. If certain examples try to resist his lessons, he may have to put them down like rabid dogs.

Okay...I can see some of this.

Evensong is a vile, vile man who has adopted a guise of enlightenment and morality in order to keep his narcissistic mantle of civility. You could think of him as a Planescape dustman, but, unlike them, Evensong's willing (or perhaps was, before his imprisonment) to bend minds and kill to rid people of their attachments. Because Evensong doesn't consider his fellow humans as people, he doesn't think of their feelings or opinions as valid. They are somewhere between animals that must be trained and wayward children that must be educated to him.

Hmmmm...Okay, this is better than how I took his NoSGaz writeup, but it still seems far too abstract. He murdered people because...he was extremely zen? It's a philosophical construct, I don't see how it could move someone to murder.

The character with the closest philosophical match-up I can think of is Genkaku from Deadman Wonderland (although the latter is obviously a lot less refined and subtle and a lot more oriented towards violence and death.) or perhaps Andrew Ryan from the Bioshock games (Evensong's isolationist element in the Nocturnal Seas Gazetteer reminds me of him- though Evensong is surely more evil and concerned with "conversion".) You could think of Evensong's screeds as a horrible conglomeration of the detachment of Buddhism coupled with the self-focus of objectivism, both taken to dark extremes.

I got the last sentence of that. Yes, I agree that that's his philosophy, I just think it's lacking the passion, or maybe pathos, that we normally find with DL's.

It is because of the baron's condescension towards his fellow human beings as objects that he is doomed to spend a good chunk of each night's century without him. He believed he was above his fellow humans like some demi-god, so he will outlive them, over and over again. However, it turns out that Evensong is not completely without attachment himself, as the loneliness eats at him. Not in the same way that a person might miss another person's company, but how a master might miss a pet or a favored piece of property.

Now THAT is pure gold! He sees himself apart from others, so he is condemned to be truly and deeply apart from them until he craves their presence, and then remembers why he hates them, and then goes back to his oubliette to remember all over again. THAT MAKES SENSE NOW.

Thank you.

As to why Evensong might be civil to the PCs, I would take it like Poison Ivy when she met Batman in Batman the Animated Series. At first she naturally assumed Batman would be on her side because he goes about fighting crime and doing justice outside the system. So Baron Evensong might believe such guests (of a higher caliber than the rest of the rabble) might already subscribe to his views.

Hmmmmm...could he maybe even hope that someday he will find a luminary that can last with him in the mansion? Could he be seeking a peer?

[The Lesser Evil]

I would say that you could squeeze out some additional pathos in the fact that, like Meredoth, he's normally very cold to people, but when annoyed or provoked his wrath can be horrible. Think about being the Only Sane Man in a world full of lunatics all the time, that eventually has to wear on you. (And of course he's not that sane to begin with).

The objects/animals/children aren't actual people, but they can prove annoying when they cause excessive problems. (This is another element of hypocrisy to his character- which I see as the key element to Evensong's character.) He doesn't kill people (or mind controls, for that matter) because he's zen (which I don't really think he is completely), he kills people because they... just... DON'T... LISTEN! Sentimentality and attachments, these things drag the entire human race down. So like Meredoth, Evensong thinks that those he cannot convert or mind control need to be destroyed or contained- germs that need to be wiped out before they spread to the rest of the population.

Of course, unlike Meredoth, Evensong liked to keep up appearances and has a high charisma. But he invented a way of mind-controlling people all the same as Meredoth, he just uses it in a way that's theoretically in their best interest instead of overtly using them as tools. (His caring for humanity as whole but looking down on people as individuals is another element of hypocrisy. If you wanted to play up the "Why isn't anybody listening to me, I could free them of their irrational sentiments! *insert high-pitch villainous monologue in momentary break of calm*)

IME, cold-hearted/dispassionate DLs can work, but you have to play up the chronic grating that their suffering puts them through. It's a slow burn torment that slowly wears them down, and then they might crack really badly oh so temporarily. Alternatively, you could have the cold-hearted villain show signs that he might be using little defense mechanisms to keep his heart cold, like strange, noticeable twitches when an object that rubs his is mentioned. (Of course, he never acknowledges it) Other odd behaviors- saying certain phrases in a sing-song way, hand gestures, etc. Perhaps Evensong could swat a nonexistent fly from time to time, and then when ask what he's swatting, he'll refuse to acknowledge what he's doing. (Kinda like the guy with the duck on his head in Discworld but never admits it, but of course more vaguely creepy than humorous)

Edit: yeah, the peer idea sounds like it would be a really good fit. Of course, part of his curse is that things almost always go horribly when meeting newcomers. Any potential peer he might meet (other demilords) can't enter the mansion, and he's trying to get them wiped out anyway.