What do I need to run MotRD?

[Robin]

Hello,

I am new to roleplaying and i would like to try running a Masque of the Red Death setting. Can someone please tell me what books I need to run this setting? I am confused.

Please tell me what are the absolute essentials, followed by what would be nice to have. Thank you.

[Coan]

Well assuming you want to run a 3.5 edition game (that is the latest version of the rules) you will need:

Masque of the Red Death Campaign Setting. Make sure this is the new book as there is the original box set (made in the 90's) is still floating around on ebay and the like.

Plus the Ravenloft Players hand book which gives rules for Madness, Fear and Horror plus powers checks. However maybe this falls into what would be nice to have? Depending on budget (if it is real tight just go for the Masque setting book first and have a look to see if you like it).

That is what you 'need' (besides the actual core game rule books for dungeon and dragons itself).

I don't know your background but do you have any D&D books to start with? Unfortunatley it may be expensive just to grab the needed books to play D&D in one go.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

Hi Robin,

For absolute essentials - I would say that you can get away with several different combinations.

A word of warning, though. The 3rd edition Masque of the Red Death book was very poorly put together.
The Living Death web site had a FREE players Handbook for Masque of the Red Death, which was much better written and much more comprehensive.

If you have the book D20 Modern, you could manage to run a D20 Modern game in the Masque of the Red Death setting, especially if you can get the supplement D20 Past.

[Robin]

Thank you for the help so far. I have had experience with 2nd ed AD&D for a short while. From snooping around on the net, these are the books i have found.

Player's Handbook 3.5e
Ravenloft:Player's Handbook
Masque of the Red Death (the new one as mentioned above)
Ravenloft:Dungeon Master's Guide
Ravenloft:Denizens of Dread

All of which should be the latest rules obviously.

I assume that the first 3 are essential. But since I cannot get a hold of a MotRD book locally (meaning i would have to purchase over the net before having a look inside), can someone who has the MotRD book tell me if the livingdeath.org version at
http://www.livingdeath.org/files/NewMotRD2.pdf
was better then the MotRD?

And are there any comments on the last two books I listed (particularly if u think i need them or if they were helpful)?

Thanks for your time.

[Robin]

The Living Death web site had a FREE players Handbook for Masque of the Red Death, which was much better written and much more comprehensive.
================

had?

...so does that mean it is not available anymore and I just mistook that link i posted up to be what you meant?

[Don Fernando]

I downloaded the Living Death Player's Handbook a couple of weeks ago, so it should be there. It's an excelent netbook, so I recommend it entirely above the 3rd Ed. MotRD. And it's free which makes it a lot better than the official book.

I also can recommend you to try to get your hands on the Original MotRD boxed set, in e-bay, or as a ESD file.
Check out this page, they have a lot of ESD to sell from Vintage RL:

http://www.rpgnow.com/default.php?cPath=297_311&

Hope it helps

[Jester of the FoS]

I find the actual 3.5 books alright and very nice in places. There is simply more setting information in the MotRD book. The netbook is alright but there is simply more in the actual book.
There are some problems with the book (very poor editing and some missing rules) but nothing that some online advice (and the FAQ on the site) wouldn't help.

I do find it interesting that so many people are concerned about the future of the line but are so ready to encourage online options that don't help the line.

The livingdeath.org books are great and all, some of the same people worked on both and you can easily rely on it until or if you get a copy. Just telling you your options. I personally enjoy working and holding a real book and hate hitting my computer mid-session.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I do find it interesting that so many people are concerned about the future of the line but are so ready to encourage online options that don't help the line.

I don't know about the others, but I'm doing it out of a sense of betrayal.

[Rant begins!]

If you look at the original Masque of the Red Death boxed set (and if you haven't, I command you to do so!:)), you would see a lovingly crafted setting. The original Masque was something of an artwork - something that would never appeal to the mass audiance, but to a small, discerning audiance, irresistable.

Masque of the Red Death 3.5, however, was a cheap afterthought. The book clearly was neither edited nor tested. As a documentation professional, I was especially horrified by a book that was
A) Often incomprehenisble
B) Frequently incomplete
and
C) Expensive!

That last complaint is perhaps the most true. How dare WW sell us a $40 book, which came so late and was so poorly put togther. Whereas the Living Death group put out a higher quality product, many years sooner, for FREE!

I'd rather see Masque vanish in body and remain as a fond memory, than continue on as an abomination. So to that end, I propose that we all grab a few torches, some grenades, and storm the offices of White Wolf!

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

The original 2nd Edition AD&D Masque of the Red Death was a wonderful piece, but can be VERY expensive (one sold on E-Bay last week for over £250!) to buy now unless you get the ESD, but the original is preferrable IMO.

The 3rd Edition release, while has it's flaws and is also expensive, is worth buying. It has some problems where it isn't all that easy to understand (I couldn't make head or tail of the Mystic system for a while) and needs a good overhaul in places, but it is worth buying.

The Living Death book, while free, I have not seen it myself so I cannot comment on it.

The bare necessities for running the game though is...

D&D PHB
Ravenloft Campaign Setting/Players Handbook
Masque of the Red Death

Any other books are optional, but the Moster Manual, Denizens of Dread and the Ravenloft Dungeon Master's Guide are useful additions. After that, you pick and choose what you think you may need. At the very least though, you are looking at around $100, but hunt around for secondhand copies and bargains, you never know what you might find.

[Don Fernando]

I completely agree with ScS about the MotRD book. It is bad, it is expensive and it is not like the MotRD we used to know. I do not recommend it, not even to my mother in law!
I felt betrayed because my hopes were high on this product (and many products in the 3rd Ed RL line) and all I got is a poorly edited and incomplete book (like many other 3rd Ed RL books).

Frankly, the quality of the RL books in 3rd edition, do not even begin to compare to those of the 2nd Ed. And that's sad. I don't have the same enthusiasm to buy a Ravenloft product as before. Instead I only buy what is necessary and even then, I think twice before buying.

As for the old products, an ESD version of the 2nd Ed. MotRD doesn't hurt, and it's really worth the buy if you have a nice printer at home. With this kind of documents you will spend less than 20 $ (ESDs only) and you can also download the free Living Death Campaign sourcebook for free. This way you have everything you need to play for less than the price tag of MotRD 3rd. Ed Book.

[Jester of the FoS]

I disagree, I think you're romanticising the MotRD boxed set. You know, the one with three poor adventures and a single book that was 90% rules with no NPCs other than some half-assed villains cribbed from literature, some adapted very, very poorly (Moriarty).
There was no setting information given, you had to research it for yourself. It felt as if, because it took place in the 'real world' they didn't have to include things such as a timeline, listing of description of lifestyle, how the world worked and the like. Plus there were some glaring omissions (qabals?) that detracted from it.

It was a great idea and if you had the knowledge to use the boxed set without buying two sets of encyclopeadias it was good, but hardly the vastly superior product everyone remembers it to be.

[Robin]

wow. looks like i instigated a good discussion here. thanks heaps for all your help. I ended up being very bad and indecisive so i treated myself to a birthday and christmas present for the next couple of years.

being a fan of gothic/horror movies and stories, and never having played MotRD before, I will let you all know how i find it when my books arrive in 4 weeks! I can't wait.

i'll be sure to frequent this place too.

=P

[Don Fernando]

It was a great idea and if you had the knowledge to use the boxed set without buying two sets of encyclopeadias it was good, but hardly the vastly superior product everyone remembers it to be.

You have a point, it is true that the boxed set has its flaws. I agree that information is missing, and has other flaws.

However, I guess what information is included and what not is a matter of personal taste. But what I can certainly say is that the Boxed Set is far more superior than the 3rd Edition book. Why? Because it does what it can do as well as it can be done, and it does it with quality and good price. I think this is why people remeber The Box as such a great product. And that's what the MotRD Book (and many other products in the 3rd Ed line) do not have, good old quality.

[Jester of the FoS]

Why? Because it does what it can do as well as it can be done, and it does it with quality and good price. I think this is why people remeber The Box as such a great product. And that's what the MotRD Book (and many other products in the 3rd Ed line) do not have, good old quality.

The 2E line had questionable quality as well, and the stinkers there were far worse and of far less value than the stinkers in 3E. 90% of CoD is crap but there's still that 10% unlike Requiem, Light in the Belfry, Forged of Darkness and the like. The rules in MotRD were poor but most of them worked, the setting itself is not a combat-heavy setting so you could go while sessions without rolling a single dice so it doesn't impact you as much as poor rules in a Realms game.
Both settings had their flaws.
Price-wise the comparison is $25 in 1994 dollars versus $34.99 in 2004 dollars, if you adjust for a decade of inflation the price isn't that different. And the page count is 224 to 287 so you get a full 63 pages more in the 3E version. Plus 96 of the boxed set's pages are adventures. Three! That's pretty sizable when they couldn't find the room to squeeze in a single qabal. All the world and extra information had to be published in a second suplement (Gothic Earth Gazetteer).

I just can't wait until 2014 when they republish MotRD in 4th Edition D&D and everyone complains about the new rules and changes saying it just does not compare to the classic hardcover.

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

The original 2nd Edition AD&D Masque of the Red Death was a wonderful piece, but can be VERY expensive (one sold on E-Bay last week for over £250!) to buy now unless you get the ESD, but the original is preferrable IMO.

...I got mine for a tenner.