Gazetteer Metaplot

[Mortepierre]

I think a better question would be: "what are the GC plans for his children?"

We know for sure that he came (escaped, even) to RL to avoid being caught up by his old nemesis (Isolde). She has followed him here and he knows about it.

Now, if him having children is about escaping RL, surely he realizes that it would also free Isolde at the same time and then the hunt would just resume throughout the outer planes.

So, it has to be something more elaborate.

Ganging up on Isolde using his children as cannon fodder?

Or, maybe, just maybe, the GC has become a willing agent of the DP and his children are part of a plot to make some darklords (Azalin among others) think they still have a tiny chance to escape.

Look at Soth. When he realized he was trapped forever in RL, he withdrew into himself which (almost) caused his domain to disappear. The DP don't want their favorite pawns depressed. They want them to suffer. So, by making them believe there is a way out, they keep them active.

[Le Noir Faineant]

Look at Soth. When he realized he was trapped forever in RL, he withdrew into himself which (almost) caused his domain to disappear. The DP don't want their favorite pawns depressed. They want them to suffer. So, by making them believe there is a way out, they keep them active.

Good point. But what would the ToUD mean then? - Because, who really suffered from those cataclysmic events were not the dark lords, but the ordinary people...

[Mortepierre]

Good point. But what would the ToUD mean then? - Because, who really suffered from those cataclysmic events were not the dark lords, but the ordinary people...

OK, let's imagine this then. Some years from now, Azalin (he is the best candidate) starts his fiendish scheme to escape RL. At some point, the other darklords learn about it and rush to secure it before Azalin does (on the chance that only one of them can use it to escape). To do so, armies all over the core clash, bringing into the fray those darklord who weren't yet involved.

Since Azalin doesn't care about his subjects but only about his escape, he would gladly sacrifice his own armies (living and otherwise..) to delay/stop the others.

From there, it wouldn't be too hard for things to degenerate into a WWI scenario.

The darklords wouldn't suffer but the thousands of humanoids drafted against their will would. And, at the last second, as Azalin (or another DL) is ready to unleash hell something happens. Either another group of pesky adventurers intervene, or the DP prevent the plan from succeeding one way or another. The resulting magical backfire kills thousands and leaves the Core in ruins. Heck, you could even go for total destruction. After all, the DP could simply put together a few of the islands of terror and observe how things evolve from there. I've always liked the idea that darklords are simply rats in a maze for the DP.

As for what goes wrong, the possibilities are endless.

- adventurers
- Isolde killing the dukkar as he is about to teleport Azalin "home"
- etc...

[Jester of the FoS]

I can't see the Doomsday Gazetteer being involved in the ToUD. Just another escape attempt. He caused the last couple big events, I'd like to see someone else involved in the next one.
Although I have no idea where it was going or why every land had to be visited. I like the idea of him freeing the other lords or breaking their curses in an attempt to upset the balance.

[Le Noir Faineant]

Good point. But what would the ToUD mean then? - Because, who really suffered from those cataclysmic events were not the dark lords, but the ordinary people...

OK, let's imagine this then. Some years from now, Azalin (he is the best candidate) starts his fiendish scheme to escape RL. At some point, the other darklords learn about it and rush to secure it before Azalin does (on the chance that only one of them can use it to escape). To do so, armies all over the core clash, bringing into the fray those darklord who weren't yet involved.

Since Azalin doesn't care about his subjects but only about his escape, he would gladly sacrifice his own armies (living and otherwise..) to delay/stop the others.

From there, it wouldn't be too hard for things to degenerate into a WWI scenario.

The darklords wouldn't suffer but the thousands of humanoids drafted against their will would. And, at the last second, as Azalin (or another DL) is ready to unleash hell something happens. Either another group of pesky adventurers intervene, or the DP prevent the plan from succeeding one way or another. The resulting magical backfire kills thousands and leaves the Core in ruins. Heck, you could even go for total destruction. After all, the DP could simply put together a few of the islands of terror and observe how things evolve from there. I've always liked the idea that darklords are simply rats in a maze for the DP.

As for what goes wrong, the possibilities are endless.

- adventurers
- Isolde killing the dukkar as he is about to teleport Azalin "home"
- etc...

Hehehe, quite fitting for a Ragnarok in Ravenloft. I'll eventually post my own version of the ToUD over here... (Likely next week...) Still, I am sceptical in general. I personally think Azi has sent S. out because of a more simple problem he has: As a mage/scientist, he knows, wisdom is power. While he knows everything in his own realm, he cannot travel and earn more knowledge. I am sure that drives him mad; so he uses S. as his own satellite...

IMC, the ToUD will be started by the guy who began it all: Strahd himself, who has been a bit too quiet the last few years...

[Lucius]

I agree with you that his current plan has nothing to do with the TOUD.

As for freeing other darklords, It´s a distinct possibility. Gwydion for example will be a great distraction for the Dark Powers

[Charney]

Actually, at the point the setting is currently, I'd just ask the writters to reveal it all (not sure if they can). I'm very pessimist about the immediate future of the setting.

[Mangrum]

I'll drop a few hints.

* Had we kept to the schedule of two gazetteers a year, the series would have concluded in 762 BC - thirteen years before the Time of Unparalleled Darkness.

* The ToUD has always been and remains nothing more than an idea seed for DMs -- no one that I know of (with the exception of Steve Miller, for the initial adventure concept that eventually became Die Vecna Die) has put much thought into its details. (Just about all of my thoughts concerning the ToUD are actually in R3E, seeded in the History section.)

* That said, the general idea that's been simmering for quite a while is that the ToUD, unlike the Grand Conjunction, would not be a singular event. Rather, it would be the culmination of a long series of terrible events, each one making the world a worse place. One way to look at it -- if every Dread Possibility comes true in your campaign, you're setting the stage for the ToUD.

* Azalin's plan, should it succeed, would be one of the events making life worse in general.

* If Azalin's plan succeeded, some groups of people would never notice. For other groups, however, Azalin's success would spark catastrophic fallout.

* As an example of possible fallout, Azalin's success would likely spark a war across most of the western Core, which would in turn probably crush Borca. This war has nothing to do with Azalin's plans whatsoever -- it's just a logical side effect of his intended actions, one of no personal significance.

* Escape from the Demiplane of Dread is not part of Azalin's plan. (Which is not to say it doesn't factor into anyone's plans -- there are several movers and shakers here, each acting toward their own ends.) By now, Azalin's figured out that even if he did escape, who's to say his "tormentors" wouldn't just snatch him up again?

* The children of the Gentlemen Caller do figure into it. In Gazetteer VI, the reader would have learned just how many children were out there/Azalin needed to find. In Gazetteer VII, S would have learned as well, and both she and the reader would have discovered the exact purpose of her magic bracer. This would have kicked off the latter half of the series, with S visiting the clusters and islands.

* As an unrelated side note, Gaz VI would have also introduced a supporting cast that would have stuck around until about halfway through Gaz VIII -- the crew of the ship Azalin supplies to cart S about the seas.

* Ultimately, the Gazetteers aren't about the catastrophic end game -- they're about S herself.

* In my personal notes, I considered Gazetteer XIII a good place to end Ravenloft Third Edition. Particularly since D&D 4th Edition would likely be approaching (or here) by then, were RL still going at that point, I would have bumped the timeline forward to 765 BC and handed the reins off to the next generation of designers to launch Ravenloft Fourth Edition, which likely would have focused on the imminent "end days" of the setting.

[Steve Miller]

The ToUD has always been and remains nothing more than an idea seed for DMs -- no one that I know of (with the exception of Steve Miller, for the initial adventure concept that eventually became Die Vecna Die) has put much thought into its details.

For the record, DVD had virtually nothing to do with what I originally proposed for the last RL product.

[Mortepierre]

As for freeing other darklords, It´s a distinct possibility. Gwydion for example will be a great distraction for the Dark Powers

Eh, if he ever escapes, according to GAZ V, not even the DP would be able to hold him back. The guy is that powerful.

[Mortepierre]

* Escape from the Demiplane of Dread is not part of Azalin's plan. (Which is not to say it doesn't factor into anyone's plans -- there are several movers and shakers here, each acting toward their own ends.) By now, Azalin's figured out that even if he did escape, who's to say his "tormentors" wouldn't just snatch him up again?

Intriguing John...

I always assumed that Azalin would go Vecna's way. That is, by knowing enough of the DP's dirty secrets, he would not only escape RL but also have the mean to prevent them from ever bothering him again.

If that is not the case, then Azalin's plan is likely one of two possibilities. Either he wants to gain enough power to do as he pleases in his own realm (in effect, to be the only darklord without a curse) OR to bring about the destruction of the entire RL setting because that would ruin the DP's day. Maybe both at the same time if he is really lucky.

Hmm.. this opens up a whole new can of worms...

[Mangrum]

Oh, I'll add a few more notes, since I just remembered them:

* According to plan (which I later managed to muddle), there would be one child of the GC in each Gazetteer (thanks to my deadline issues, Gaz III ended up with none, and Gaz IV got two).

* The first child (the one in Gaz I) is, as some have speculated, the batwinged Beast of the Hills. Not that there's any way to tell from the book. The Kartakass chapter originally included a bit more on this character, but as it stands she narrowly avoided being edited out of the book altogether.

* A concept I eventually formulated was that in terms of exact nature, powers, and personality, each individual "demonspawn" was an amplified reflection of its Vistani mother's worst fears and failings. Malocchio Aderre is the only one who actively seeks the destruction of the Vistani, because he's a dark reflection of the worst aspects of his mother, Gabrielle, and he's the most powerful, because he reflects the power of his mother.

* The general idea of the Beast of the Hills, since it's moot now, was that her demonic nature manifested almost entirely physically. Most of these "dukkars" look normal (save for some minor physical deformity), but have utterly fiendish souls; this one is physically fiendish, but inwardly lacks her father's malice. In hindsight, I'd assume her mother had serious self-esteem issues.

The Beast's lost Dread Possibility went something like this: The Beast had retreated to Radaga's old haunting grounds to avoid civilization. However, the artifact Radaga possessed (the stone slab she used to steal the youth and vitality from damsels strapped to it) was empathically calling out to her (as evil artifacts are wont to do), trying to convince her to use it to give herself a normal appearance.

[Seamus]

Thank you Mr. Mangrum! It'll still take a bit of thought to put together the whole of Azalin's plot, but the information you've offered is a godsend, especially about the GC's children. Nice to have the Gazetteer I's demonspawn identified (that was killing me), and for the unifying themes of them all to be presented. Thanks so much!

[Bluebomber4evr]

The idea I got from reading the various hints dropped in the Gazetteers, amplified by John's hints here, makes me think that Azalin's plan would be something along the lines of giving darklords the ability to cross over the boundaries of their domains or expand them somehow. This would tip the balance of power throughout the Core and give some darklords like, say, Vlad Drakov, the ability to wage war effectively.

[Le Noir Faineant]

The ToUD has always been and remains nothing more than an idea seed for DMs -- no one that I know of (with the exception of Steve Miller, for the initial adventure concept that eventually became Die Vecna Die) has put much thought into its details.

For the record, DVD had virtually nothing to do with what I originally proposed for the last RL product.

So, now it's up to you to lift the veil, Steve!



Daisy's theory:

Vecna= Azalin, Kas = Death; The Burning Peaks = Necropolis; Tovag Baragu = Not the place of Azi to ENTER the mists, but to leave them and to torment the good Oerth a bit...