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The Nightmare Man wrote:... the Great Wheel is an entirely different cosmological framework to that which was presented in the Eberron Campaign Setting.

Actually, it has already been stated that even Toril has a separate framework from the Great Wheel; thus it actually makes sense nowadays that Eberron might have a more direct connection to Ravenloft the same way that Faerun currently has.

Let's face it: Ravenloft is a D&D world, has been, always will be. It even says so on the cover of the much beloved RLCS. So many people nowadays disavow Ravenloft's planar connections with the other D&D worlds, I'm not about ready to be one of them.

I personally would not like Eberron references in a RL book, but then again, the PG is aimed to attract new players to the game,
not just to comfort us oldschoolers.

Given that Ravenloft abducted Maligno from Gothic Earth -- a world that was never slotted into the D&D cosmology anywhere -- and Meredoth from Mystara -- a world that, for most of its publication-history, conformed to the radically-different Basic/Expert/etc game's planar framework -- it's pretty clear that the Mists can cross between cosmos, not just between planes.

Dion of the Fraternity wrote:

The Nightmare Man wrote:... the Great Wheel is an entirely different cosmological framework to that which was presented in the Eberron Campaign Setting.

Actually, it has already been stated that even Toril has a separate framework from the Great Wheel; thus it actually makes sense nowadays that Eberron might have a more direct connection to Ravenloft the same way that Faerun currently has.

Indeed, it does.

Rich Baker has said that for the purposes of FR's 'Great Tree' cosmology, Sigil occupies its own separate plane, making the Sigil of the Great Wheel from core D&D, the same Sigil one can find in the Realms. In the 2e PLANESCAPE campaign setting, the City of Doors rested at the peak of the infinitely tall Spire centred in the Outlands (the basis of the Great Wheel cosmology). In 3e, Sigil does still exist as the City of Doors, but it now occupies a completely separate planar environment all its own inside the Great Wheel of the 3e D&D core cosmology. What is special about this individual plane inside the Great Wheel (and atop the Spire) is that the independent nature of the plane in which Sigil rests allows this Sigil to be the only Sigil in the entire multiverse -- thus, the Sigil of the Great Wheel is also the Sigil of the Great Tree for the FORGOTTEN REALMS campaign setting. This allows crossovers between the two different cosmological frameworks of core D&D and the 'Great Tree.'

Let's face it: Ravenloft is a D&D world, has been, always will be. It even says so on the cover of the much beloved RLCS. So many people nowadays disavow Ravenloft's planar connections with the other D&D worlds, I'm not about ready to be one of them.

I agree with you completely.

The Nightmare Man wrote: Rich Baker has said that for the purposes of FR's 'Great Tree' cosmology, Sigil occupies its own separate plane, making the Sigil of the Great Wheel from core D&D, the same Sigil one can find in the Realms. In the 2e PLANESCAPE campaign setting, the City of Doors rested at the peak of the infinitely tall Spire centred in the Outlands (the basis of the Great Wheel cosmology). In 3e, Sigil does still exist as the City of Doors, but it now occupies a completely separate planar environment all its own inside the Great Wheel of the 3e D&D core cosmology. What is special about this individual plane inside the Great Wheel (and atop the Spire) is that the independent nature of the plane in which Sigil rests allows this Sigil to be the only Sigil in the entire multiverse -- thus, the Sigil of the Great Wheel is also the Sigil of the Great Tree for the FORGOTTEN REALMS campaign setting. This allows crossovers between the two different cosmological frameworks of core D&D and the 'Great Tree.'

My head hurts now...

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Given that Ravenloft abducted Maligno from Gothic Earth -- a world that was never slotted into the D&D cosmology anywhere -- and Meredoth from Mystara -- a world that, for most of its publication-history, conformed to the radically-different Basic/Expert/etc game's planar framework -- it's pretty clear that the Mists can cross between cosmos, not just between planes.

That's true, they never leave you in peace wherever you hide!

VAN wrote:That's true, they never leave you in peace wherever you hide!

Except for the phlogiston.

The Nightmare Man wrote:Hmmm... It'll be interesting to see what you come up with for this. The world of Eberron is not directly connected to the core D&D cosmology [as Keith Baker has said]. Thus, the Great Wheel is an entirely different cosmological framework to that which was presented in the Eberron Campaign Setting.

If there is to be a connection between the two settings... it may have to involve Sigil, since the City of Doors, according to Rich Baker, occupies it's own separate planar environment in the Great Wheel [in 3e] and could, theoretically, allow travellers from other settings to crossover into the Great Wheel.

You don't actually need Sigil, nor Rich's opinions. The Shadow plane is connecting cosmologies in 3e as the Astral Plane is connecting planes. Which means that to go from Ravenloft to Eberron you go either:
from the Deep Ethereal through the Astral Plane to the Shadow Plane and then to Eberron's Shadow Plane
or
from the Deep Ethereal to the Near, then to the Material Plane, then to Shadow Plane, then to Eberron's Shadow Plane.

Of course the opposite direction is easier, as it doesn't involve escaping from the Mists .

Which of course means that it is not just possible, but INEVITABLE that the Mists will one day touch Eberron--and it is of course probable that the Mists would create an Eberronesque domain.

Hence the Eberron reference in PGtRL.

The point is, if WotC has decided to continue RL in some sort (like they hint with the new novels), our multiverse-based setting will sooner or later adapt to whatever WotC wants to promote. Right now, I think we can be glad that it is only d20 modern/past and not "The Tale of the Warforged who killed Strahd and became the new DL of Barovia", I think...

Dion of the Fraternity wrote:Which of course means that it is not just possible, but INEVITABLE that the Mists will one day touch Eberron--and it is of course probable that the Mists would create an Eberronesque domain.

Hence the Eberron reference in PGtRL.

Someone suggested to use the Mournland... It would be interesting to use Cyre (It was it's name, wasn't it?), instead.
The theme of people volunteering for undeath which is present in Karrnath would also be interesting.
Finally, I would also like a corrupted version of the elves of Aerenal... It would even fit into the Mictlan gazetteer I'm currently working on, but I promised Ryan not to change things too much.

Gwenfloor wrote:Why is the Church of Yutow a Cult of Shadow?

Nobody has answered my question yet.

Gwenfloor wrote:

Gwenfloor wrote:Why is the Church of Yutow a Cult of Shadow?

Nobody has answered my question yet.

Dion of the Fraternity wrote:

Why is the Church of Yutow a Cult of Shadow?

As far as the summary of it goes in Gaz4, it's not really a religion that teaches hope and all that, so it's classified there.

Mournland/Cyre is a good bet, as well as Aerenal.

Also, let's not forget that Ravenloft's Ancient Dead are not too different from the new creature type Unliving (which originated from Eberron): they both channel positive energy, for one. In fact, I saw somewhere in this board around two or three years ago that one of the Kargatane said the Ancient Dead were, indeed, technically Unliving rather than Undead.

Dion of the Fraternity wrote:Mournland/Cyre is a good bet, as well as Aerenal.

Also, let's not forget that Ravenloft's Ancient Dead are not too different from the new creature type Unliving (which originated from Eberron): they both channel positive energy, for one. In fact, I saw somewhere in this board around two or three years ago that one of the Kargatane said the Ancient Dead were, indeed, technically Unliving rather than Undead.

*coughs*

They're called Deathless.

Yeah, the whole "mummies who run on positive energy" thing had me thinking that they'd be better statted as deathless.