Timor Gazetteer

[Tobias Blackburn]

I'm afraid that I haven't seen anything that would justify putting Timor on the same land as Paridon. They spoke different languages, they had their own system of Government and Queen, they were formed AFTER Paridon (though the Mists are wonky with time), they specifically avoided the very concept of urban sprawl, and they had (and used) very powerful mages.

I think that using the Borg (and the Aliens, since that what their form is based off of) as inspiration for the Marikith works. But I'm not sure I would classify the Borg as human. They are just less beastial than the aliens in their desire to consume.

[Jester of the FoS]

I think another theme of Timor should be it's "alieness." Not overly so; I like the idea of there being remnants of the city of Timor in the domain, but these should also serve to emphasize the complete alien nature of the Marikith. These are unknown beings, unkowable by all but themselves. The fact that their Queen was once human only serves to reinforce the fact that they have come so far away from what they were.

As to what to work on, I can certainly work on the Marikith society, if that's what people want. I also have an interest in coming up with ideas for some of the other inhabitants of Timor (monster-wise).

If you have ideas for more monsters you should definitely go ahead with them. Keep in mind the laws of Timor though. There can be no intelligent monsters in Timor because their actions will cause them to transform into Marikith.

I don't think that Timor must be completely "alien" in its presentation, but it must remain dark, unknowable and all-consuming. It's the feeling of being hunted by the shadows themselves. Look at... well, look at the movie Alien (and Aliens). Most of the movies do not take place in evil, unknowable places. They take place in the ship, or in a colony, or power plant. The fear comes from an unstoppable, unknowable foe in dark, crapped spaces. It doesn't come from the alien ship, and part of the horror from the Alien Queen's lair is the way it absorbs and corrupts the surrounding area. Timor itself should not be as alien as the Marikith, but it should be a representation of the way they ruin anything they touch.

Domains tend to reflect the lord and, in this case, the lord was human and still thinks like one, and fears being replaced by her 'daughter'. The theme I proposed doesn't need to be heavy handed, but makes for an interesting justification for things we discussed earlier while being more of a diverse theme than "fear" which isn't so much a theme as a mood. Fear also being the theme of the entire setting, making it rather redundant.
Also, alien-ess only applies to any surviving humans and/or visitors. The Marikith likly do not find Timor alien at all, thus negating any thematic implications for them.

Monsters and the Fear Effect. Well, any moster immune to the poison would likely be immune to the FE (shapechangers, undead, mindless monsters) and truely evil creatures would be unlikely to change for the same reason they seldom fail power checks. They're not player characters and are held to a different standard.

[Tobias Blackburn]

Ok. I understand the general fear idea. Her fear of being replaced comes from the fear that the attack could come at anytime. She knows her daughter is out there somewhere, but nothing else. The domain already holds that feeling for anyone that comes into it.

Monsters and the Fear Effect. Well, any moster immune to the poison would likely be immune to the FE (shapechangers, undead, mindless monsters) and truely evil creatures would be unlikely to change for the same reason they seldom fail power checks. They're not player characters and are held to a different standard.

I think I should clarify Timor's corruption mechanic. It affects anything that performs an action worthy of a power check, whether the creature fails or not. It's the way it worked in old Timor and the way it works in Shadow of the Knife, making it canon in 3e. The only exceptions I can think of would be outsiders without the native subtype, constructs, elementals, plants and undead.

We know that it effects shapechangers because the Hive Queen specifically kidnaps Doppelgangers and Jackelweres so that they transform. The only creatures in the sewers should be mindless creatures like vermin and oozes, animals, the marikith and anything that can keep from performing evil acts.

Everything should be afraid of Timor's tunnels, because even if you don't transform the marikith still hunt you.

[Jester of the FoS]

We might want to tone it down, create some manner of scale or sytem beyond one-action equals failure, character gone, no save.
Such as a Marikith Path of Darkness for Power Checks.

[Tobias Blackburn]

We might want to tone it down, create some manner of scale or sytem beyond one-action equals failure, character gone, no save.
Such as a Marikith Path of Darkness for Power Checks.

Why? It's already canon, just as with Sodo's inability to close the border with the sewers, and is fairly similar to the Darkon's memory drain. The difference between them (Beyond completely screwing with a character's mind vs character loss) is that Timor requires you to commit an evil act instead of giving you a short time limit to get your business done.

It has been with Timor in all of it's incarnations, from Islands of Terror, to Domains of Dread, to Shadow of the Knife. We can't drop it or weaken it now without ignoring all the canon that came before it.

It won't come up that often unless the party turns on itself or a group of goodly denizens who have been able to avoid power checks themselves. Timor is supposed to be that dark, frightening place where death, and worse, hide in every shadow. This is the worse part. Reducing it to a Path of the Marikith completely removes the flavour of the domain and completely ignores the history of Timor City (unless power checks there are done with a 80% penalty).

[Undead Cabbage]

What if instead it were like the twisting in the Carnival? Eventually, you would become 'one of us' per say. Leaving Timor results in you returning back to normal.

[Tobias Blackburn]

What if instead it were like the twisting in the Carnival? Eventually, you would become 'one of us' per say. Leaving Timor results in you returning back to normal.

Again, that sucks the flavour out of the domain. Though I wouldn't be adverse to including a caveat that a tranforming character who leaves before the changes are complete slowly turns back to normal.

Besides, I wanted to do the "One of Us" bit with the Remnenants

[Jester of the FoS]

I'm not suggesting we remove the effect, I'm just suggesting it be diminished for a gradual decent. The method in Shadow of the Knife is functional for the limited periods characters explore Timor but is entirely broken for extended adventures or campaigns in the domain.

One evil act worthy of a Power Check and the character is immediatly lost. The Power Check doesn't even have to be failed, the act just has to be worthy of one. No save, no chance for avoidance. The player lies to a NPC and BAM, he's a Marikith. Even in 2nd Edition the player got a Save vs. Spell. That's broken.

We can add a saving throw, perhaps some options and as a sidebar include a Terror Track for long-term games set in Timor or for DMs whose players are more prone to bad things.

I stick to canon when possible but sometimes you have to bend it, and Timor needs more bending than Paridon.

[Spiteful Crow]

The player lies to a NPC and BAM, he's a Marikith.

"What is your favorite color?"

"Red! No! Yelloooooooooooooow!"

[Tobias Blackburn]

Maybe some kind of saving throw, but Timor isn't the kind of place PC's are supposed to want to stay for any length of time. Even when the domain is fleshed out it has to remain a place of dark, stygian terror that no sane person would want to stay in. Otherwise it becomes the underdark and the marikith just another drow. Even "extended" campaigns in Timor should involve heading to the surface fairly often for restocking and rest.

The changing effect also seperates the tunnels of Timor from the Tunnels of Blutspur. Well add one saving throw for design purposes, but the changing gives that little extra to keep it becoming just another underground dungeon filled with horrors.

Edit: Here's another idea. We go back to a specific set of actions. If you do something selfish or that puts your own desires above those of the group/community, that's when you have a chance of becoming a marikith. A lie that has no real consequences ("We came down two hours ago, when it has really been two days"), not a problem. A lie that could harm the group ("Bob's plotting to betray you to the shadows." or "Marikith can't see you if you hold your nose") activates the change. Look at movies that involve cramped areas and scary monsters. The guys that try to screw over the group always get caught by the monsters. That's part of the feel we want.

But you are right about the saving throw. Getting one also answers a problem that had cropped up in the Remnenants. One is fair. It likely takes Hit Dice into account into how powerful a marikith you become, though no one ever becomes a Queen.

[Undead Cabbage]

Hey, sorry to get off topic from powers checks, but I was thinking about ways to make the Marikith hunters an enemy that uses 'swarming' tactics. Here are some ideas:

- allow multiple Marikith hunters to take up a single 5 foot square (they already have compression, so this is not a far fetched idea). Perhaps even 3 per square. This further increases the number of Marikiths that can be attacking a single target at any one time. Thus, a character out in the open can be attacked by a maximum of 24 Marikith hunters at a time.

- give Marikiths a bonus for assited grapples. Perhaps a +2 bonus for every Marikith that is also making a grapple attempt.

- give Marikiths the improved grapple feat, so that they're grapples do not provoke attacks of opportunity.

- allow them to make bite attacks in a grapple without penalty.

This would highly discourage players to do the classic 'stand off against the orcs' tactic against the Marikiths. Add these to the fact that Marikith hunters can go through small cracks, and have a speed of 40ft, as well as a climb speed of 20ft, and you have something that will strike phenominal fear into anyone what enters Timor.

And on the note of Canon material, consider that monsters are notorious for being changed in the Gazetteers. Or, if we want to play it safe, perhaps these are 'Timor Marikith Hunters' as opposed to just Marikith Hunters. Necropolis did something similar.

[Tobias Blackburn]

Nice ideas, Cabbage! That's the kind of thing I was looking for.

After some thought, I realized that a saving throw against the corruption of Timor doesn't fit the domain.

You got a saving throw in old Timor because the city was split between Civilians, Doppelgangers, and the Marikith. A saving throw kept the evtire population from changing at once.

Timor now belongs solely to the Hive Queen. If you act like a monster, you belong to her. Those that survived old Timor's destruction were those that realized that putting yourself before the needs of the community and the welfare of others became monsters.

Some domains have these extra effects. Darkon takes over memories. The Wildlands destroy manufactured items. Timor makes you "as beautiful as you are on the inside".

Another problem is that allowing a saving throw against "actions corrupt" goes against the point of the setting. There are people that think that Dark Power checks are broken because they take your character away just because you were playing the character, and there is no way to improve your chances of passing (well, now there is Cold Blooded, but that's technically a family specific feat).

Timor is a savage place where survival depends on the people around you. If you betray those people, you aren't any better than the Marikith.

[Undead Cabbage]

It sounds like Betrayal is another huge theme to be ephamisized for both Paridon and Timor.

[Tobias Blackburn]

It sounds like Betrayal is another huge theme to be ephamisized for both Paridon and Timor.

Seems to be working that way, doesn't it. Oh well, keeps Timor from becoming Blutspur and gives the Cluster a common theme to conjoin around.

[Mortavius]

Couple of replies:

First off, about the alien theme, when I say alien, I don't mean the movie, "Alien(s)" but the general theme of alienism. Much like Lovecraft's alien influences. The Marikith are not like other creatures, and we should emphasize this in portraying them.

Secondly, I stand with David on the idea that a single bad act should not spell instant doom for the character. Darkon steals memories, but over a period of months. I don't recall how long the Wildlands destroys items, but I'm sure it's not a case of them walking across the border and their stuff breaks.

I like the idea of a Path of Marikith, or at least more of a chance for the PC. It should not be an instant death effect. And letting it become a case of DM adjucation is too nebulous. What do you say, "Well, if you think the PC's do something bad, then punish them by taking away a character?" There should be a set of defined rules (like those for Powers Checks) and the PC's should have a chance to escape it. The Dark Powers are fickle; sometimes those who commit a single deed spiral into darkness and others who spend a lifetime commiting evil are untouched. Such is the mysterious nature of the Dark Powers.

The important thing to remember is the consequences of the action. A PC does something evil, whether knowingly or not, and he loses his PC. Is this fair in the context of the game? Is this fun for the PC? Would you be happy if this happened to you? It's easy for us to stand up on our high DM's spots, but in reality it's different down in the game when you're taking away a treasured PC.