Domain of 2009 - Ghastria

[Ken of Ghastria]

Giamarga,

Thanks for taking the time to collect all of that info. Juicy stuff! I remember reading John's and Jim's posts back in the day. In my long-suspended RL home campaign, I had been angling to create an irresistable plot hook to convince the PCs to travel to Ghastria, and all these comments have gotten me psyched to resurrect the storyline.

--Ken

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Apparently the professor got D'Polarno's title wrong.

Perhaps "marquis" isn't a title used in most of the Core domains, so the professor translated it into terms his readers would be familiar with. Or perhaps d'Polarno holds more than one title of nobility.

[The Giamarga]

Both titles are in french. If we can trust this site then marquis =/= comte == earl/count.

Comte is a title of French nobility. In the English language, the title is count, a rank in several European nobilities. The corresponding rank in England is earl. A Comte ranks below a Marquis or Margrave (the French have two equivalent words for the same title) and above a Vicomte.
--from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte

[Rotipher of the FoS]

True, in France both "marquis" and "comte" existed in the same hierarchy of noble ranks. But the Core is nowhere near as big or heavily-populated as Europe, so I doubt if there's social space for as many ranks of nobles to exist in the Mordentish-speaking nations as in the real world. Plus, folk in Mordent don't seem to care much about specific noble titles, aside from the generic "Lord" and "Lady".

[The Giamarga]

That's certainly true.

[ewancummins]

Both titles are in french. If we can trust this site then marquis =/= comte == earl/count.

Comte is a title of French nobility. In the English language, the title is count, a rank in several European nobilities. The corresponding rank in England is earl. A Comte ranks below a Marquis or Margrave (the French have two equivalent words for the same title) and above a Vicomte.
--from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte

From my reading of history, titles mean very little in and of themselves. Look at European history and you will find many, many examples of the shifting nature of political power and how titles and ranks are not always a reliable indicator of relative power. The Marquis of Pombal was more powerful than the King of Portugal, at one point in that country's history. Barons like de Montfort forced King John of England to sign the Magna Carta. A count [graf] in the HRE might be the ruler of his own essentially autonomous principality, while a comte/count in early modern France might well be a shabby-genteel courtier who affected not to worry about his family's dwindling fortunes.

[ewancummins]

Ah, it occurs to me that perhaps we should make actually tables of peerage for several core nations? It wouldn't be hard, we could just cop stuff from real European nations.

Just make sure to not automatically assume that title/rank= political/military/economic power on a straightforward basis. Remember: the idealized 'feudal system' is a simplistic construct applied to complex and diverse societies by later generations, not necessarily the way people actually lived or operated.

[DocBeard]

How many nations are actually traditionally feudal, anyway, though? The only nobility in most of the Balok speaking nations is the ruler and his or her stooges. In the Mordentish speaking nations, it's more of an oligarchy than anything.

[ewancummins]

How many nations are actually traditionally feudal, anyway, though? The only nobility in most of the Balok speaking nations is the ruler and his or her stooges. In the Mordentish speaking nations, it's more of an oligarchy than anything.

What do you mean by '' traditionally feudal''?

[Garudos Celestar]

As for the religion in Ghastria issue, what if the main imported faith is, instead of Ezra, the worship of Zhakata. Now, Petrovna never seemed to be much the missionary type (enforce the faithful yes, but evangelize the unbelievers no), but Ghastria seems like a place where the faith of Zhakata could find a small foothold. Because the food has no taste, no one really enjoys eating, so periodic fasting wouldn't be considered as great a sacrifice as it might otherwise be. In addition, perhaps the one day a year when the food is fantastic is considered a gift from Zhakata the Provider (sure, Petrovna has banned all aspects except that of the Devourer, but it's unlikely the Ghastrians have had any contact with the G'Hennans since the Grand Conjunction, so they wouldn't know that).

Unfortunately, it doesn't make too much sense to have the Zhakatans being the ones running the church that was burned by the Marquis, as G'Henna only appeared in 702 and Sithicus in 720 (going by "The Unauthorized Biography..." the church burning took place sometime before Sithicus appeared), but if they were, it stands logically that the Zhakatans would have been horrified by the display of gluttony represented by cannibalism, which could be why the Marquis attacked them.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I'm not sure if food being tasteless is enough reason for the Ghastrians to give it up lightly. If the only reason they ever have for eating is hunger rather than appetite (i.e. needing, not wanting), then wouldn't they see fasting as purely self-destructive instead of a mark of faith? They know food as an absolute biological necessity, not a pleasure to be forfeited; it'd be like asking someone to hold their breath for their religion.

Plus, why would the G'Hennans expect Zhakata to want Ghastrians' tasteless food? If they're looking for converts, you'd think they'd go someplace where the food that'd be handed over to their deity would actually give him some pleasure. Flavorless food is hardly going to help sate the Devourer and bring about his conversion into the Provider.

[cure]

Two thoughts in relation to tasteless food:

-cheaper than importing food with taste from elsewhere would be importing spices from elsewhere to lend the local food a semblance of taste; evidently not an option for the poor; so who exports spice to Ghastria?

-since Ghastrians can't tell by taste that a given food has started to rot, and might pose a health risk, a lot of food that would be thrown out in any other land makes it onto the table in Ghastria; consequently there may be fairly elevated instances of food poisoning, of which a visiting FoS member might be a victim . . . .

[Garudos Celestar]

I'm not sure if food being tasteless is enough reason for the Ghastrians to give it up lightly. If the only reason they ever have for eating is hunger rather than appetite (i.e. needing, not wanting), then wouldn't they see fasting as purely self-destructive instead of a mark of faith? They know food as an absolute biological necessity, not a pleasure to be forfeited; it'd be like asking someone to hold their breath for their religion.

Not really; they also know fully well that one can go without food for an extended amount of time; individual people in Ghastria will have gone without food at some point in their lives for whatever reason. If they fast once a week, or every day from dawn to dusk every day for a month, or for scheduled holidays, etc., it won't be considered terribly threatening, even if being hungry is uncomfortable.

That said, the Zhakatan missionaries don't have to have had significant success in attracting converts in Ghastria, but the nature of the domain would be intriguing to them from a theological perspective. Here's a land where gluttony is basically non-existant: people eat only because they get hungry, and they stop when they get full. There's no such thing as, for example, a craving for chocolate. This creates a baseline behavior that might seem promising to the priests.

Plus, why would the G'Hennans expect Zhakata to want Ghastrians' tasteless food? If they're looking for converts, you'd think they'd go someplace where the food that'd be handed over to their deity would actually give him some pleasure. Flavorless food is hardly going to help sate the Devourer and bring about his conversion into the Provider.

This assumes that all the priests are holding to the current doctrine in Zhukar - a doctrine that Yagno didn't declare until after his traumatizing encounter with Malistroi. Before Yagno banned the worship of all aspects other than the Devourer, there were many competing faces of Zhakata in G'Henna. In particular, if the missionaries place the Provider as their primary image of Zhakata, Ghastria's unique situation has a lot to offer.

In particular, the yearly return of flavor and vibrancy provides them with the opportunity to claim that the Ghastrians are receiving a direct gift from the Provider. The average citizen of Ghastria won't realize that it's actually a result of d'Polarno's curse; sure, he's in a better mood around this time, but so is everyone. The Zhakatan priests can offer a potential explanation for this annual supernatural (divine?) occurance. The bland food they eat for the rest of the year is Zhakata's way to discourage them from gluttony before he's ready to offer them his Dole.

Will these explanations result in instant mass conversion? Of course not. Even if the Zhakata the Provider is responsible for these phenomena, he's always given them to the Ghastrians, whether they worship him or not. As a result, there's not going to be much imperative for self-sacrifice to appease the Devourer, although a few people might be willing to engage in periodic fasting as a symbol of gratitude to the Provider.

Thus, we set up the source of the local priesthood's frustrations. They've arrived in a land that seems promising: the people seem willing to accept that the Provider could be the source of their gifts, and they're not so enamored with eating as to object to the periodic fast. Unfortunately, their few genuine converts lack proper fear of Zhakata, and no one has yet proven their devotion by willingly entering starvation mode as a sign of faith. Combined with the loss of oversight from the main branch of the faith in Zhukar (if it still exists - it's entirely possible that the Shadow Rift is the maw of the Devourer that has swallowed G'Henna for some unknown heresy) and the fact that d'Polarno already manages his own "dole" to the Ghastrian people, and we get crises of faith as competing strategies and theological debate cause the local priesthood to begin to splinter.

[Brandi]

-since Ghastrians can't tell by taste that a given food has started to rot, and might pose a health risk, a lot of food that would be thrown out in any other land makes it onto the table in Ghastria; consequently there may be fairly elevated instances of food poisoning, of which a visiting FoS member might be a victim . . . .

In a GURPS-based Ravenloft, I like the idea of Ghastrians tending to have the advantage Cast Iron Stomach...

[ewancummins]

-since Ghastrians can't tell by taste that a given food has started to rot, and might pose a health risk, a lot of food that would be thrown out in any other land makes it onto the table in Ghastria; consequently there may be fairly elevated instances of food poisoning, of which a visiting FoS member might be a victim . . . .

In a GURPS-based Ravenloft, I like the idea of Ghastrians tending to have the advantage Cast Iron Stomach...

Cool!

I'm a GURPS fan. It's one of the few 'crunchy' systems that I actually like.