Silly RL names

[Ail]

AVONLEIGH!!!!! The darklord is really Anne of Green Gables, I suppose...

Why? Who is that Anne, btw?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_of_Green_Gables

And is the connection to Avonleigh something more than the similarity to Avonlea? I don't know either very well :-s

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I think I still prefer the idea of La Republique for Dementlieu though.

Split the difference? La Republique d'Belleterre?

[Ail]

Ah, you've just hit the trait I dislike the most about Ravenloft naming. The excessive use of the apostrophe

I don't remember now any more examples than d'Polarno, but there were quite a few. Marais d'Tarascon, perhaps.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Ah, you've just hit the trait I dislike the most about Ravenloft naming. The excessive use of the apostrophe

I don't remember now any more examples than d'Polarno, but there were quite a few. Marais d'Tarascon, perhaps.

d'Honaire, Port d'Elhour, Mulger d'Ajust, and Maison d'Samblet would round out the major ones. But Duncan d'Lute, College d'Art, Louise d'Cann, Lord d'Arcy Penspot, Ivan D'Ogmai, and Grandmother Isabelle D'Aprix show up in the catalogue (have I mentioned the catalogue lately? ). It was my understanding that was a standard French thing, though. (not that all of those listed are in Dementlieu or Richemulot)

[Ail]

Well, it can be either French or Italian. The thing is, the apostrophe is only used when it replaces a final mute vowel 'e' (mostly) before a word beginning with another vowel sound. For example, l'arbre is nice, because 'le arbre' has a closed 'e' followed by 'a'. In italian, 'dell' arte' is another example, because there are two 'as' in a row ('della arte').

But I never saw a final 'i' being replaced, because the sound 'i' (English 'ee') is so strong it never gets lost. At any rate, it never is before a consonant, so di Polarno should stay as such.

Going back to French (and I'm not vouching for the Canadian version, which I thoroughly don't know), sometimes an 'h' before a vowel will allow the apostrophe, sometimes it won't. This is something I learnt the last time I was there. For example, 'le héros' (the hero) does not become "l'héros", as I tended to say.

To pick up on your examples, what I think would be bonafide French versions are:
d'Honaire, Port d'Elhour, Mulger d'Ajust, College d'Art (probably Collège des Arts instead) Lord d'Arcy Penspot, Ivan D'Ogmai, Grandmother Isabelle D'Aprix, even though these last names don't sound French at all.

However, I personally find no justification for these: Maison d'Sablet, Duncan d'Lute and Louise d'Cann. Just my pet peeves, I guess.

I saw some of these contractions used in real life in some American countries, and since then I'm a bit more tolerant... but not much

Oh, yes, you did mention the Catalogue, and congratulations for having it back on wheels again

[Zettaijin]

As one of the resident francophones here, I would like to explain very briefly that, yes, and whether you like it or not, the apostrophe is a common sight in French. Be that as it may, there are rules that govern its use.

One would use the apostrophe in the case of a preposition ending in a vowel meeting a word beginning with another vowel or a mute h to indicate elision.

While some terms have in the past been linked by an apostrophe (grand'mère, for one) to signal elision despite the above rule, those were rectified during various reforms early in the 20th century and are now spelled with a hyphen instead.

Thus, Port d'Elhour, Dominic D'Honaire and Mulger d'Ajust are all correct if considered to be written in French and assuming that the grammatical rules of Ravenloft French have followed a similar path to those of the real world's French.

I can't, however, say if any real world language would use d' before Polarno or Cann, not that I know which (if any) real world language these names were taken from to begin with. I surmise (I'm no expert on the matter) that earlier versions of French could include elision where there should be none which in turn could explain the apostrophe in d'Polarno and other such odd uses.

Again, who's to say that this version of French didn't evolve in such a way as to allow for nearly random elision and irresponsible usage of apostrophe?

[Ail]

simultaneous post, I see ^^^

[ewancummins]

Ah, you've just hit the trait I dislike the most about Ravenloft naming. The excessive use of the apostrophe

I don't remember now any more examples than d'Polarno, but there were quite a few. Marais d'Tarascon, perhaps.

Why would one use an apostrophe before a consonant sound like that? It seems very strange.

[ewancummins]

Would it be La Republique de la Belleterre?

[Zettaijin]

Indeed, but just so you know, Canadian French doesn't differ all that much from other variants of French. I very much doubt the Académie would agree to the notion of upstarts like the Belgians and Québécois (let alone various colonized African countries) to propose official changes to the French language without their full consent.

Mind you, popular use is a whole other story, as is the case with numerous other languages.

And Ewan, use of an apostrophe before a consonant was, as I stated before, the norm before hyphens took over. And some popular usage might place an apostrophe before a consonant to approximate a local patois or accent.

It's actually quite common for French people to reproduce in writing the spoken language of more "rustic" types with numerous apostrophes and fewer vowels.

Mam'zelle, for example, is not an appropriate spelling or form of mademoiselle by any stretch, yet it is commonly used as a humoristic device or to add colour. It does a fair job of reproducing at least one (incorrect, albeit popular and very friendly) pronunciation of the term.

And as for Belleterre, the funny thing is that there is a place called Belleterre here in Québec and the common use considers the name to be just that, a name, and not a combination of an adjective and a noun. Thus Belleterre acts as a proper noun and behaves accordingly.

La République de Belleterre would be the appropriate usage then, while La République de la Belle Terre - with "belle" and "terre" being separated - requires the preposition "la".

[Nevermorrow]

Darkon- I just don't dig the name.

I agree with others who have voiced a dislike of the Nazification of Falkovnia. It's King Vlad, not KFVD, darn it!

Ghastria.....I like the lord and the domain has potential, but the obvious name I do not like. Gastronomical ....meh.

Nocturnal Sea-
Where are the Crespucular Bay and the Diurnal Mere located?
I use the Shrouded Sea [but my version does have a normal period of daylight- it's just tends to be quite foggy and overcast].

AVONLEIGH!!!!! The darklord is really Anne of Green Gables, I suppose...

I don' t know how I missed this post earlier.

I never liked the name Darkon either. Even Lamordia is better than that. It is definitely in the silly category. It's like naming some domain "Gothica" or Barovia "Fangland". It sounds like some place in the old D&D cartoon.

I also don't like the Nazification of Falkovnia, but that is a story for another thread. Suffice it to say, I had no trouble figuring out what to do with Drakov and his curse once I decided to make him and his domain more like Vlad Tepes and Wallachia, respectively.

Ghastria... not as bad as some of the others, but yeah, it tends to inspire eye-rolling once you read about how the food grown there is bland.

Nocturnal Sea. While I agree with you, again, I don't think it's really any worse than Sea of Sorrows.

Avonleigh. Oh, Lord, yes, that desperately needs to be changed. What were they thinking?!

I think I still prefer the idea of La Republique for Dementlieu though.

Split the difference? La Republique d'Belleterre?

I like that! I do believe I will use it for my campaign.

And as for Belleterre, the funny thing is that there is a place called Belleterre here in Québec and the common use considers the name to be just that, a name, and not a combination of an adjective and a noun. Thus Belleterre acts as a proper noun and behaves accordingly.

La République de Belleterre would be the appropriate usage then, while La République de la Belle Terre - with "belle" and "terre" being separated - requires the preposition "la".

Okay, great then! La Republique de Belleterre it is then for my campaign.

[Jezred]

Okay, great then! La Republique de Belleterre it is then for my campaign.

It is good that you made it a republic. If it were a principality, then it would be ruled by a prince. And then you'd have...

The French Prince of Belleterre.

(I so apologize for that.)

[Ail]

Okay, great then! La Republique de Belleterre it is then for my campaign.

It is good that you made it a republic. If it were a principality, then it would be ruled by a prince. And then you'd have...

The French Prince of Belleterre.

(I so apologize for that.)

Please, don't. I've LOLed.

So, we need a French version of Will Smith?

[Strahdsbuddy]

Ladies and Gentlemen, you are playing with players that are WAY too smart if they can figure their way through all these names! Find yourselves some morons, it makes DMing a lot easier!

Also, major props on the French Prince!

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

So, we need a French version of Will Smith?

Guillaume Forgeron?