Strahd's feudal rank

[tomokaicho]

I've been playing Crusader Kings 3, which has got me thinking about feudal ranks. If I recall correctly, Strahd was a described having the rank of count in the original boxed set. That would make him ruler of a county. The 3E version of Strahd upgrades Strahd to king. Any idea when Strahd declared himself king, or was this a retcon?

It's possible that Strahd held a county in Borjia, and became king after the reconquista of his homeland of Barovia. What was this land called before Strahd conquered it and named it after his father?

[Pizza]

I mean why not call yourself a king if you end up in the sort scenario Strahd is in? Who’s going to stop you?

[alhoon]

Well, he's calling himself count.
Crusader Kings-wise, he's a count with two counties.

[DustBunny]

I've been playing Crusader Kings 3, which has got me thinking about feudal ranks. If I recall correctly, Strahd was a described having the rank of count in the original boxed set. That would make him ruler of a county. The 3E version of Strahd upgrades Strahd to king. Any idea when Strahd declared himself king, or was this a retcon?

In the original I6 Barov and Ravenia were referred to as King and Queen, while Strahd himself was a Count. I think they were downgraded in Gaz1. But also in Gaz1 there is mention of General-Princess Nicoleta von Zarovich fighting the Neureni.

But then also in Gaz1, Barov is called a Count during the war of the silver knives and yet appears to be in charge "...until Count Barov Von Zarovich commanded an end to the conflict in 316BC and appeased the families with gifts of new lands. Though the families complied with their ruler's edict...". So the actual titles are all over the place. Counts can only boss around Barons, Viscounts and lesser Counts, which seem too low a rank for the Dilisnya and Petrovna.

One way around this would be to work with the way the noble ranks worked. For example Prince Charles has a string of titles apart from Prince - he is also the Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, etc etc. So Barov was King, and Strahd was techically a Prince, but he was also a Count. Sturm and Sergi also probably had a string of lesser titles as well.

So wrapping up - when Barov died, Strahd inherited the title King.

[Mistmaster]

I call him the Count-King, because he is Count of Barovia Town, and King of the rest of Barovia.

[alhoon]

Yes, but we're talking crusader kings here.
Strahd is a count with a Castle holding (Ravenloft) as his demense - and not too developed aside of fortifications if you want my opinion- and a couple of mayor vassals and probably a temple vassal. Then he got another County, Gundarak, where he has another castle holding and a couple of mayor vassals with better town holdings.

[tomokaicho]

Yes, but we're talking crusader kings here.
Strahd is a count with a Castle holding (Ravenloft) as his demense - and not too developed aside of fortifications if you want my opinion- and a couple of mayor vassals and probably a temple vassal. Then he got another County, Gundarak, where he has another castle holding and a couple of mayor vassals with better town holdings.

Gundar was ranked a duke, I believe. That would make Gundarak a duchy. Are you sure that Strahd only has a couple of mayor (burgomaster) vassals? There are quite a few towns in the county (duchy? Kingdom?) of Barovia.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Normally in Ravenloft it would be County of Barovia because of Strahd being a count, but Strahd took the title of count and not king out of respect to his father King Barov of Barovia, his father Sturm Von Zarovich was probably the last king of Barovia, as the Prime Material Barovia was a kingdom.
Do Barovians trapped for centuries in the Land of Mists consider themselves still part of a kingdom or not? That would be the main question in my opinion.
Probably in the beginning they would but after years of isolation and the appearance of other lands I would say County is more proper. But after the annexation og Gundarak they may consider they are part of a more glorious country.

Count/Countess
European title of nobility, equivalent to a British earl, ranking in modern times after a marquess or, in countries without marquesses, a duke. The Roman "comes" was originally a household companion of the emperor, while under the Franks he was a local commander and judge. The counts were later slowly incorporated into the feudal structure, some becoming subordinate to dukes, although a few counties (or countships), such as those of Flanders, Toulouse, and Barcelona, were as great as duchies. The reassertion of royal authority over the feudatories, which took place at different times in the different kingdoms and led to the formation of centralized states of the modern type, meant that most counts lost their political authority, though they retained their privileges as members of the nobility.

[SkiBird]

I wonder how much of it is tied up with the ennui of immortality (and a general disdain for humanity).

He was a Count when he died ... and maybe at first, out of respect for his late father or whatever ... he did not assume another title.

But now, centuries later, Strahd simply could not be bothered with the whole mess. That isn't to say he doesn't consider himself a cut above ... he is a von Zarovich after all. The name means something to him. I'm not sure about the title.

Bored with men and their petty games. He's a warlord of a mountainous backwater, and has essentially been the apex predator (both literally, but also socially) for ages. Strahd wouldn't feel the need to change or dolly himself up for anyone.

And titles only impress the courtly types ... and Strahd doesn't give a you-know-what about pomp and circumstance. He's not out to curry favor, form alliances with neighboring nations or host grand balls or whatever. Those matters were conducted under the auspices of a human life ... where things mattered. I'm not sure anything does anymore ... not politically ... not to Strahd at any rate.

And so out of little more than habit — a vestige of a human life almost forgotten — a Count he was, and a Count he will remain.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

And so out of little more than habit — a vestige of a human life almost forgotten — a Count he was, and a Count he will remain.

This is a damn good explanation.

[alhoon]

Yes, but we're talking crusader kings here.
Strahd is a count with a Castle holding (Ravenloft) as his demense - and not too developed aside of fortifications if you want my opinion- and a couple of mayor vassals and probably a temple vassal. Then he got another County, Gundarak, where he has another castle holding and a couple of mayor vassals with better town holdings.

Gundar was ranked a duke, I believe. That would make Gundarak a duchy. Are you sure that Strahd only has a couple of mayor (burgomaster) vassals? There are quite a few towns in the county (duchy? Kingdom?) of Barovia.

Gundar had the rank of a duke, but he held a county. So unless Strahd "creates" for himself the title "Duke of Gundarak" then he holds two counties.

THere were indeed more than two, but Crusader Kings would probably have a county as populus as barovia with the county seat and three vassals.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Gundar had the rank of a duke, but he held a county. So unless Strahd "creates" for himself the title "Duke of Gundarak" then he holds two counties.

Tere were indeed more than two, but Crusader Kings would probably have a county as populus as barovia with the county seat and three vassals.

Gundar had a Duchy, did you find anywhere Gundarak referenced as a county?

When half of the Duchy of Gundarak ws annexed by the County of Barovia it became part of the County of Barovia.

If he wanted Strahd could be called Count Strahd Von Zarovich of Barovia, Lord Prtotector of Gundrak or something similar (part of his propaganda). But I believe he is not so much into titles as explained before by SkiBird

[Nemesio]

And so out of little more than habit — a vestige of a human life almost forgotten — a Count he was, and a Count he will remain.

This is a damn good explanation.

I second Mephisto of the FoS’s comment!

[alhoon]

Gundar had the rank of a duke, but he held a county. So unless Strahd "creates" for himself the title "Duke of Gundarak" then he holds two counties.

Tere were indeed more than two, but Crusader Kings would probably have a county as populus as barovia with the county seat and three vassals.

Gundar had a Duchy, did you find anywhere Gundarak referenced as a county?

Guys, we are talking Crusader Kings, not feudalism. In CK, if a count takes over the last county of a duke, he doesn't automatically become a duke. He is a count with two counties.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Well actually we are not talking for CK...

I've been playing Crusader Kings 3, which has got me thinking about feudal ranks.

The game was just a trigger to start the conversation about feudal ranks...