Binders in Ravenloft

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Binders, from the 3.5 Tome of Magic, gain power by contracting with Vestiges: entities trapped in or exiled to the 'void beyond creation'. They call forth manifestations of these entities to negotiate with them.

Typically, outsiders called into Ravenloft can't leave, which would possibly lead to Very Bad Things happening if Vestiges like Karsus or Tenebrous were suddenly made flesh on the demiplane of dread.
Also, it'd rob the Binders of the source of their power.

Maybe the Unspoken Pact could cover Vestiges, and while physical manifestations do not appear in Ravenloft, Binders could still contract.
Maybe Ravenloft has Vestiges of its own, entities trapped in the Mists unless called forth by a Binder. (Imagine Ezra being one of them.)
Or maybe the Vestiges could be so alien even the Dark Powers can't restrain them. Especially desperate PCs might decide the void beyond creation is their way out, only for them to become lost in a much worse place.

How say you, scholars of Ravenloft?

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Some entities that might make good Vestiges for Ravenloft:
Mystryl, original goddess of magic and time (Forgotten Realms)
Sarig, the not quite dead god of magic (Riftwar Cycle)
Torak, maimed god of Angarak (Belgariad)
Zandramas, the Child of Dark (Malloreon)

[tomokaicho]

Mangrum said that he was going to revise the entire conjuration school given the opportunity. The way it works currently is absurd.

[Joël of the FoS]

Great idea.

Oh@Torak, cool

Reminds me somehow of the 2e era dead gods floating in the astral plane.

Joël

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Mangrum said that he was going to revise the entire conjuration school given the opportunity. The way it works currently is absurd.

Well, binding Vestiges is not exactly the same as bog-standard Conjuration.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Great idea.

Oh@Torak, cool

Reminds me somehow of the 2e era dead gods floating in the astral plane.

Joël

Thank you. ^_^
I figure the Vestiges are even worse off than those dead gods, watched over by Anubis: fully aware, but bereft of physical sensation, lost in the void.
I could see Cthrag Yaska banishing Torak's soul / spirit there, even if it was persuaded to posthumously repair the damage it'd dealt to his flesh.

Zagor, the titular Warlock of Firetop Mountain, could be out there as well, given how thoroughly he was destroyed the last time he appeared in a Fighting Fantasy-book. (Legend of Zagor)

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

Maybe Ravenloft has Vestiges of its own, entities trapped in the Mists unless called forth by a Binder. (Imagine Ezra being one of them.)

I would favor the existence of Ravenloft-specific Vestiges. It would provide an interesting alternative fate for entities trapped in the Dread Realms. For those candidates who are not quite dark enough to become darklords, but too powerful to become simple mist creatures, it might make sense for them to be fashioned into Vestiges. It could also be a good fate for destroyed (and unredeemed) darklords. Perhaps this would make sense for Kas---he was made into a Vestige in Dragon Magazine #341.

Also, I hear tell that the power level of the binder was improved by a selection of Vestiges that were released online, allowing the class to measure up better to established classes. I found a forum post elsewhere that lists all of the Vestiges, with links to the online ones, though the links only work if plugged into the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. For those who find the binder falls slightly short, there is extra motivation to create new Vestiges.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

I just saw the Hour of the Raven episode on WotC Mist Hunters series, they also use vestiges in these modules. I was thinking of buying the RMH-02 Back to the Front : Back to the Front adventure for a map of Morfenzi but found out that it is a tiny hamlet in the adventure and not a city. I guess I will have to make my own map.

[tomokaicho]

I suspect that Binders are totally unrestricted, and the vestiges "exist" in the dread domains with impunity. That said, as occultists the binders will be hated probably more than witches.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

I suspect that Binders are totally unrestricted, and the vestiges "exist" in the dread domains with impunity. That said, as occultists the binders will be hated probably more than witches.

That's probably a given, but most people won't be able to distinguish a Binder from a Wizard, nor a Sorcerer from a Warlock, so there's that.

[tomokaicho]

That's probably a given, but most people won't be able to distinguish a Binder from a Wizard, nor a Sorcerer from a Warlock, so there's that.

It's a lot worse than that. Witches and Wizards look like you and me. Binders often have visible occult signs on their body due to binding a vestige, and also come under the influence of a vestige which changes their demeanor.

[Baron Von Stanton]

That's probably a given, but most people won't be able to distinguish a Binder from a Wizard, nor a Sorcerer from a Warlock, so there's that.

It's a lot worse than that. Witches and Wizards look like you and me. Binders often have visible occult signs on their body due to binding a vestige, and also come under the influence of a vestige which changes their demeanor.

Changes that range from behavioral tics to temporarily surrendering one's body to the vestige to outright mutations.