The OGL, Ravenloft and You

[Jester of the FoS]

But wait! There's more...

Basically, WotC rolled over and took out almost everything the fans complained about.

Aaaand the fans are still angry. Because there's no way to make people stop complaining on the internet. There was really nothing WotC could do at this point.

[tomokaicho]

But wait! There's more...

Basically, WotC rolled over and took out almost everything the fans complained about.

Aaaand the fans are still angry. Because there's no way to make people stop complaining on the internet. There was really nothing WotC could do at this point.

WotC hasn't caved. They will still abolish OGL 1.0 for a far more draconian license.

[tomokaicho]

Like being able to cancel content for not meeting WotC's standards of decency. Which sounds problematic until you consider that people publishing offensive content as "D&D compatible" won't be seen as a 3PP by the media if it starts trending.

This is incredibly wrong. First, OGL 1.0 says that you cannot even mention WotC IP.

7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.

And all the overtly horrible RPG products have have popped up over the years, like the unbelievably racist Star Frontiers reboot by nu-TSR or the OGL product Tournament of Rapists.

Ah yes. The vital need to prevent Gary Gygax's "nazi son" from playing D&D. It's irrelevant to the discussion of the OGL anyway, since Star Frontiers New Genesis does not use the OGL.

[Jester of the FoS]

WotC hasn't caved. They will still abolish OGL 1.0 for a far more draconian license.

We know very little about the new license, as it doesn't exist yet. Saying it's "draconian" is probably a little early.

Ah yes. The vital need to prevent Gary Gygax's "nazi son" from playing D&D. It's irrelevant to the discussion of the OGL anyway, since Star Frontiers New Genesis does not use the OGL.

True, but Tournament of Racists was.
The point is that there's a lot of people making OGL content, and it looks bad for the brand if someone makes crude or racist or bad taste material. I don't see it coming up often, but I think everyone in the hobby will be happy the clause is there if someone does an OGL hack of FATAL. You just know on a hard drive someone has an "own the libs" RPG waiting to be released...

Regardless, the result of this is a renewed focus on Open Gaming and more attention on 3rd Party Publishers than has been seen in like a decade. AND Paizo making its own OGL. Possibly with blackjack and hookers. Too early to tell. AND Kobold Press is doing their own in-house system. AND a bunch of smaller systems were highlighted in online discussions.
The whole affair has been a boom for gaming.

[Mistmaster]

WoC will still make a new OGL, soon or later, but products already existing won't be affected and that is already a big difference.

[Jeremy16]

Here's an interesting take from a famous Youtuber that I thought would be enlightening for all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZQJQYqhAgY

[Five]

This is Star Wars, but with a "what if the Galactic Senate never sided with Palpatine?". Rebellion is small right now but real enough, and Anakin, though trained by Darth Sidious, has decided to cut all ties and directly oppose him. Though, he's still Anakin when it comes to his spite and he has no intention of abiding by the Rule of Two...

https://media.tenor.com/wnXHdDOMljAAAAA ... -laugh.gif

[Speedwagon]

Here's an interesting take from a famous Youtuber that I thought would be enlightening for all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZQJQYqhAgY

Already saw that one! Love LegalEagle's work and it was nice to see Matt Colville on board. Thanks Jeremy16!

Also, Five, I understood your analogy up until you brought Anakin into it. Who's Anakin supposed to represent?
'

[Five]

Paizo.

[Speedwagon]

Ahhhhh. Well from what I've seen of the ORC so far, the plan is so that even groups like Paizo can't undermine it in the future, even if their corporate leadership changes, so maybe this is a relatively honorable and willing to abide by the 'Rule of Two' Anakin?

[Five]

Personally, I don't attribute any company with anything remotely akin to altruism. Business is self-serving by nature, and moms and pops are moms and pops for a reason.

If Paizo is confident that the current OGL is a safe harbour for their expressions of D&D (my gut says they agree, at least in part, with buddy's views in the last posted video link above), then why would they go out of their way to create another safe harbour, and focus on the terms "perpetual" and "irrevocable"?

"And so we invite gamers from around the world to join us as we begin the next great chapter of open gaming with the release of a new open, perpetual, and irrevocable Open RPG Creative License (ORC)."

What aren't they saying?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/new ... 55/875.gif

Fans will win under an ORC of this nature, but I'm not so sure about "moms and pops" game designers (profit margins)...

We'll see. I could be wrong.

- Edited to fix a typo statement

[alhoon]

So, by reading, you still retain ownership of your content.

WotC gets an unlimited, perpetual and irrevocable right to your IP and you may not designate product identity. Furthermore, WotC retains this right after termination of the agreement, but you are still bound by it's obligations.

I'm not sure how you managed to cherry pick that selection. If you think that all is this agreement says, you'll lose your rights if agreeing to it.

Where did you see that? Are you sure that's the right interpretation?

[tomokaicho]

So, by reading, you still retain ownership of your content.

WotC gets an unlimited, perpetual and irrevocable right to your IP and you may not designate product identity. Furthermore, WotC retains this right after termination of the agreement, but you are still bound by it's obligations.

I'm not sure how you managed to cherry pick that selection. If you think that all is this agreement says, you'll lose your rights if agreeing to it.

Where did you see that? Are you sure that's the right interpretation?

It's in the OGL 1.1 license back provisions, that they claim that they will not have in OGL 2.0 (but you still won't be able to sue WotC if what they use is "coincidentally" similar).

There is some other interesting news that has come out of this. AI DM assistants. Could be very useful for handling mechanical aspects like combats and speed up the game.

[Speedwagon]

There've been some updates today, with DnDShorts and The Rules Lawyer weighing in on WotC's recent attempt at an apology. You'll notice that they didn't remove the "Darth Vader clause" from the list of things they'll be removing in that letter to the community, so community outcry and fan efforts to stymie WotC are still as relevant as ever (whether that means multiclassing into variant sailor or otherwise). So for me, I've already canceled my DnDBeyond subscription and am making back-ups for all the character sheets on there, just in case the current controversy lasts into the period that my subscription pay would come and all those characters get paywalled from me.

Additionally, Kobold Press gave more detail on Project Black Flag, and it seems like something in development long before the recent OGL stuff (development since June 2022 iirc).

And then, there's the stuff with $30 a month D&DBeyond subscriptions, banning all homebrew content on DnDBeyond, and AI DMs. I look upon that last point with mixed feelings; while an AI DM can certainly help me with running monsters and speeding up combat, it can't replace an actual DM as they're the ones who organize the games and bring people together and buy all the stuff out on the market, as well as being able to react and make rulings in a much more flexible manner than an AI. I kinda wonder if WotC doesn't realize that they need real DMs to, y'know, DM and buy their products, and that they'll implement AI DMs not as a helpful crutch or tool to complement and supplement DMs but instead as a replacement, video-gameifying D&D. I already have Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and Divinity: Original Sin so I'm good lol. The $30 a month policy is absolutely a rip-off. I had a yearly subscription that was fine for me and the books were pretty expensive for the relative lack of content so paying almost 2/3rds of a book's price just to keep the subscription is really not my jam. The banning of homebrew content however feels like the greatest 'shooting yourself in the foot' of the recent crop of decisions so far. I have tons of players who like to use homebrew spells or homebrew subclasses and I occasionally borrow a homebrew monster or two from the homebrew vault on DnDBeyond, and I love the ability to find really useful homebrew content that I can add to my game with the click of a few buttons as well as laugh at the stupider homebrew content on a YouTube video. This just seems like they're even more tone deaf than I thought.

Hopefully things will get better regarding this situation, but we'll see. Despite the current displeasure I voice at WotC and Hasbro, my games have been going great! I had a Friday one-shot at the 5e House of Lament that's now a two-shot taking place this Friday and that's going well, along with a level 5 group in Markovia playing through a homebrew-modified (with help from QtR #29) Neither Man nor Beast and a Monday group in a mix of 2e and 5e Har'Akir, chasing a 'mysterious Gentleman' after getting dropped off by Isolde's Carnival after joining up with the troupers after they killed the Jongleur and set fire to Ivana's mansion in Borca. And this upcoming Saturday night I'll be a player in a Lancer campaign I've been waiting for and tomorrow I'll be playing in a Pathfinder 2e 3-shot (maybe turning into a 4-shot) so I'm certainly not in a gaming drought.

[Five]

Yeah, I read about that subscription leak earlier this evening/afternoon. If it's true (there was a same/similar-sounding confirmed hoax some time ago?), the corporate Wizards are so detatched from the game that's it's both sad and hilarious.

$30 bucks a month if I want to share my homebrew? I don't even pay that kind of dough for Netflix, Prime, or Disney Plus for my family. Two of those for about the same I guess. Still, $360 a year for...what exactly?

I'll do what I do and continue on. Thanks Wizards, but I never needed you since you took over from TSR...

If it's not true, then whatever. I'll still carry on without them. What they started cannot be stopped nor taken away either way you slice it.

Oh, and stay away from Dark Sun. Please. I'll pay $30 a month for a year to make that happen...haha