Children of the Night: Giants

[Speedwagon]

You've probably already seen the title and recoiled in horror, huh? Giants? In my Ravenloft campaign setting? I might as well have committed some other unspeakable heresy, like define the Dark Powers or dissolve the Core . But I jest!

How would you guys incorporate Giants into Ravenloft? I feel like there's untapped potential for Giants to have a presence in the Domains of Dread, whether as the doomed denizens of their own Domain (with a Giant Darklord) or as another worldbuilding detail. The Giants had their Ostorian Empire in the Forgotten Realms lore, and I feel like there's potential for a Gothic Horror or Dark Fantasy take on them. Dark Souls 2 and 3 gave an interesting Dark Fantasy interpretation of them (the Last Giant and Yhorm the Giant bosses) so I'd be interested in seeing the Giant, a creature that is so big it might be too big for its own good, face its own hurdles.

Perhaps the Giant Darklord wanted to recreate Ostoria, but sank to heinous depths that appalled both we smallfolk and its fellow Giants? Perhaps it gained an appreciation for the smallfolk around it, but then felt (wrongly) betrayed and snuffed them out for this (perceived) betrayal? Maybe it was just trying to help, but since it was too big in every sense of the word, it only brought misery with it as it went. What sort of curse would a Giant Darklord have? To be trapped in a body or space too small for it? To be preyed upon by Dragons or other, even larger creatures (and feel what's it like to be one of the smallfolk cowering in fear at the shadow of a gargantuan creature)? To see every attempt to save its glorious empire dismantled or rot away, partly due to the actions of its fellow Giants? To be part Giant and part Dragon (as dragons are their ancestral archenemies)?

And what of Giants in the canon domains, whether that be the Core or other Clusters and Islands? Maybe there's some Frost Giants hiding out in the Balinoks or the Sleeping Beast Mountains. Perhaps Falkovnia has killed off all of its Hill Giants that came from the Crumbling Hills and is trying to create a gigantification serum with Vjorn Horstmann's help like they did with the Primal Serum (turning your soldiers into living siege engines sounds appealing). Maybe there are still some Stone Giants hiding out in caverns beneath Kartakass or Hazlan, or even in Bluetspur (they're definitely crazy). Thoughts?

I asked that question on the Ravenloft discord server that Zilferofshadows made, but I wanted to ask it here. There's been some discussion of this topic in older threads way back in the past (like this thread here: https://www.fraternityofshadows.com/for ... php?t=6741) but I also wanted to see what the FoS members of today's thoughts on the matter would be. Here are a selection of some of the thoughts on Discord, at least:

• I am of those who believe all monsters can have their place in RL. A domain of giants a la attack on titan sound cool, if giving a giant a tragic/gothic backstory is to much trouble, you could always do a human darklord whose curse is having to fend off the giant attacks (you could even replace the zombies in nu-falkovnia with giants).
  As for giants on the core, I would insist on the fact that they are ancient powerful primordial beings, their mind should be alien to human and demi-humans. Markovia have a spot with giant statues sinking in the earth. I also used the death frost doom (there is a giant sleeping under the dungeon) nega-dungeon in Dorvinia of all place. Credit goes to NormandLamour on Discord

• I'd say a basic Jack and the Beanstalk scenario would be an easy base. Jack the Giantkiller needed more giants to keep people interested in him, so he began hunting more innocent ones until he eventually finally killed off the entire race... and their last survivor cursed him to never again know rest, that all he had built would be smashed by the vengeful fists of the Ordning.
  And, perhaps, he turned into a giant (or was giant blooded all along, a goliath maybe or a half ogre or whatever), or alternatively, became a "patron spirit of giabt killers" when he died, a ghost, whose body was possessed by the last giant and now reforms and reappears as a new killer giant on the regular, driving his legacy of "finishing off all the wicked giants" into the mud Credit goes to Chronische on Discord

• The problem with giants is making them a hidden horror. A beanstalk scenario does address that. Credit goes to Ryan/ArrBeeNayr on Discord

• Giants should be a lingering background horror. A massive Boogeyman.IMO, Giants should be something analogous to Eldritch Horrors within Ravenloft. That's how I'm treating them in my article. Perhaps like Eberron's Daelkyr, physically like us but sooooo alien. They're uncannily like us, but massive and psychologically divergent. Seeing one should make you empty your bowels in horror. Walking puzzles rather than monsters. Credit goes to Doc Necrotic on Discord

• they could also go as the climax to a folk horror adventure, with the bulk of the adventure dealing with questionable locals leading up to the giants at the climax. or like an azenwrath like setup could work where most of it's building tension and a "what are we going to do" sort of mood
  kind of going with the cosmic/eldritch horror route, one of the things that you could play up is the impossibility of their sizes, like anatomically humanoids shouldn't be able to be that big, yet here they are. creaking/crunching bones as they walk, tight/tearing skin over their massive frames, bulging even telescopic eyes, impossible contortion to fit in small places (imagine one of them peaking a head into a place you thought you'd be safe from)
  and of course size can be scary when put with things in relation like a giant just grabs a handfull of cows and tosses it in his mouth nonchalantly or tears off the roof of a barn like it was tissue paper Credit goes to The Lesser Evil on Discord

• The same can be said of dragons, but there's more to draw Gothic horror comparisions to a giant than a dragon I feel. Giants can represent the endless gluttony, cruelty, and malice of men. Imagine Paul Bunyan, but working for an evil cause: the westward expansion, at all costs! He drove others as hard as he drove himself, yet none could keep up with a literal giant!
  Another example would be a 'giant of industry', something one became as a result of their belief and hard work at the cost of trampeling all who would even remotely slow them down; coal-boy to Vanderbilt style. Becoming a literal giant, to match their overweening pride and pairing political and monetary power with physical power seems reasonable, as well as having their evils laid bare by the change Credit goes to Chronische on Discord

I came up with a few ideas for Giants in Ravenloft but I must warn you: I'm still a newb when it comes to the campaign setting and haven't had the chance to really peruse the monster manuals of Ravenloft, so I'm really only familiar with the 5e monster books that have been released or the Kobold Press 3rd party monster books. I'm familiar that in Ravenloft, there's the Giant of Nartok and Nabon of Heroes of Light in Sithicus and Hurrek in CotN: Ghosts. Plus, the Castle of Otranto, one of the founding works of Gothic fiction, has the ghost getting bigger, no? So I really do think there's a place for Giants in Ravenloft. Keith Amman, the author of a book on monster tactics for 5e called "The Monsters Know What They're Doing", gave a general reasoning for the primary and fundamental/basic motivations of each type of monster type in 5e so far (for DMs who might not understand the reasoning behind the tactics he chose to ascribe to each creature in his book). For Humanoids and Giants, he wrote:

Humanoid enemies (as opposed to humanoids just going about their business) are driven by the things you don't talk about at the dinner table: politics and religion. They're social creatures, and therefore their goals are typically social in nature, as are the units they form to bring these goals about. A humanoid boss enemy is a leader of like-minded humanoids who all want the same thing, and the sophistication and abstraction of the goal is proportional to the intelligence of the humanoid(s) pursuing it. Although they may still be fundamentally interested in territory, wealth, and domination (like a beast and a monstrosity would be interested in territory and food while a dragon would be interested in the former two plus the latter two) it's shared territory, wealth, and domination, and the superficial justifications for those pursuits take the form of ideologies built around tribal, clan, or national identity; moral or theological doctrine; sex or gender roles; caste roles; hierarchies of rulership and allegiance; or rules of trade. The psychologist Jonathan Haidt's moral foundations (fairness, kindness, loyalty, obedience, and sanctity) and their opposites (injustice, abuse, treachery, rebellion, and corruption) come into play: the "bad guys may be committing one or more of the latter group of sins, or they may be going overboard in their attempts to root those sins out.

If dragons are the uber-monstrosities, then giants are uber-humanoids. However, while dragons have broader interests than most monstrosities do, giants' interests tend to be narrower than those of most humanoids, and they're tightly dictated by their species and their place in the Ordning--the giants' status hierarchy. In terms of social ideology, giants are chiefly interested in their relationship with other giants, and this impinges upon humanoid society only to the extent that giants need to claim humanoids' territory, humanoids' wealth, humanoids' food supllies, or rulership over a humanoid group in order to establish their intragigantic status. In other words, giants' goals revolve around rivalries, and when this makes them the villains, it's usually because of the collateral damage they're causing around them.

Here are a few of those ideas I came up with for a "Children of the Night: Giants" below. Please don't hesitate to give me some sort of constructive feedback and discuss more about the topic with me!

• A Falkovnian experimental super soldier (Johann Bletz) created by a collaboration between the Ministry of Science and the Ministry of the Arcane. The soldier is meant to usher in a new wave of warfare, with each future iteration of the project improving upon Lord Drakov's desire of a 'living siege engine' to topple the walls of Nartok and bust down the doors of Castle Avernus.

• An intelligent Hill Giant Mouth of Grolantor that resented his place not only amongst his own people but of the Hill Giants' place in the Ordning. This Hill Giant deeply resented the Ordning and Hill Giant culture that led him to being bound and shackled as an object of worship for the god Grolantor, instead of being treated as one of their own. Eventually, after a successful raid on a nearby county, the Hill Giant chief decided to further show his appreciation to Grolantor by giving the Mouth of Grolantor a helm of intellect. This backfired greatly, as the once dull and dumb Hill Giant could now better articulate his thoughts and plan for deception. He used his newfound intelligence to convince his tribe to 'join him in showing their devotion to Grolantor' by starving like him. He took advantage of the fact that the gods of the Giants were distant enough to not immediately intervene. Eventually, the Mouth of Grolantor overtook the chief of the tribe, and planned his own ascent to the top of the Ordning. He plagued the countrysides of his homeworld with his tribe of starving Hill Giants, using them to pick off the remainder of his own subrace tribe by tribe, piece by piece, until eventually, the Mists took him. He found himself in G'Henna, and learned of the religion of Zhakata...and he loved it.

• A Dementlieuse (or maybe Lamordian) scholar who dabbled in psionics and learned through studious research of the existence of Bluetspur. In an attempt to better understand the impossible, he underwent a procedure to expand his brain. Now his head is disproportionately large but he has attained great psychic powers (think of MODOK from Marvel Comics or the new less racist design of Egg Fu from DC)

• A Stone Giant Dreamwalker. She was lacking in athletic grace or carving skill, two qualities greatly prized by Stone Giant communities. She resented the fact that she was meant to dwell at the fringes of their society, to serve as a guide or a far-wandering hunter, for the rest of their days. In her desire for vengeance against her place in the Ordning, she committed two great sins. First, she struck a bargain with a nearby Drow sorcerer to curse her clan so that they may never be great carvers and artisans (similar to Meredoth's creative sterility) and second she betrayed her clan in leading the Drow to their caverns so that they may be exterminated. She has since been drawn into the Mists, aimlessly roaming the land and incapable of knowing dreams from reality due to the Stone Giant worldview and outlook regarding the surface world. She is of great interest to the Nightmare Court of the Nightmare Lands

• A trickster Cloud Giant that put his clan into such great debt that they committed suicide to escape the humiliation (need to work on this backstory). Now he floats in a flying castle above the Core, acting as something of a patron and sponsor to brigands everywhere due to the fact that the mastermind is far more mobile than the authorities believe (similar to the Fog Giant in older editions). He is on good terms with Ivan Dilisnya and Hazlik, with an adventure involving this Cloud Giant perhaps being linked to one or the other (Hazlik using the Cloud Giant as an additional deterrent against the Church of the Lawgiver from messing up his operations with their dogma, or Ivan Dilisnya happy to have not just a friend with similar decadent interests but one who can protect him and his lands from Drakov's raiders or Ivana's intrigues)

• Fire Giant Dreadnought (ideas?)

• A tragic half-ogre?

• A Frost Giant male born of a forbidden union between Frost Giant and Cloud Giant. He was looked down upon by the rest of his tribe for his heritage, leading to a resentment of his fellows throughout his life. He continually shirked the honorable ways of gaining glory in combat, opting to use under-handed tactics to try and move up the ladder of the Ordning. Continually he violated the tenets of the Frost Giant code, until one day he was cast out of his tribe after defeating the jarl in dishonorable combat. Out on his own, he received the dark dreams and omens of Vaprak the Destroyer, and he was drawn to the promises of power that the Destroyer offered. Towns were slaughtered indiscriminately, not only to appease the Destroyer, but to starve the other Frost Giants of food and supplies; a tactic which worked. Even when the last Frost Giant in the frozen north died, he was not satisfied. His actions caught the eye of a group of Cloud Giants, who both pitied and were disgusted by the Frost Giant's exploits. Regardless, they gave the lower Giant shelter among them in their cloud castle, and treated him with much greater respect than his former clan ever did, despite his lower status in the Ordning. But the Frost Giant was not content with this, and willingly chose to give himself over to Vaprak so as to see even these Giants, and eventually all Giants laid low forever. He consumed the flesh of the troll sent to him by Vaprak and slaughtered everyone in the Castle, before sabotaging its magical flying capabilities and jumping off the edge out into the sky below, towards the water. He never reached the waves as the Mists swallowed him mid-fall, dropping him in the 300 mile wide barren wasteland of Vorostokov.

• A Storm Giant Quintessent (lots of potential here but need to figure something out, ideas?)

• A Stone Giant that got lost in the Underdark and was drawn into the Mists. Currently he resides in a cave not too far away from Pakat, and serves the community as a guide of wisdom (this can also be repurposed for Kalakeri). A possible adventure involving this NPC/monster might be to do a task of some kind for it, in exchange for some boon to the people of Pakat (whether that be religious or secular wisdom or something else, I'll have to figure out)

• Haunted Giant roaming the plains of Nova Vaasa?

• Something with Invidia; perhaps a powerful minion of Malocchio Aderre, a Verbeeg of some kind, that keeps Malocchio's rabble-rousing troops in line and has served as a second-in-command after the disastrous Sithican campaign (the whole 'Night of Screaming Shadows' ordeal)

Finally, what kind of domains could you see Giants in? Of the top of my head, I could maybe see one or more in:

• Darkon

• Tovag

• Sri Raji

• Kalakeri

• Vorostokov

• The Phantasmal Forest (British mythology featured Giants quite a bit, King Arthur fought a few so maybe the Shadowborns did?)

• Falkovnia (super soldier project or some infestation in the Crumbling Hills the military needs to get rid of

• Invidia (didn't Malocchio have like ogres and trolls under his command?)

• Sithicus

• Rokushima no Taiyou (great use for an Oni)

• Bluetspur

[The Lesser Evil]

Giants more than a lot of creatures will be dependent upon their environments for horror, particularly with spaces that can obscure their forms. Giant redwood forests, snow drifts, sand dunes, briny swamps, misty mountains, even dark waters, all might give the characters a brief glimpse of the giant's hands, eyes, or mouth without revealing its whole form. When not encountered in their native habitats, they will likely be mysterious raiders from parts unknown, spoken in hushed tones, and leaving horrendous devastation in their wake. A stray footprint, bit of hair, or even a lost tooth or nail could, through sheer size, act as ominous foreshadowing. As could listening to traumatized survivors. (So thinking about hyping up possibilities on the giants long before ever meeting them.) They may be blocked off by humongous walls yet still linger on as the Dreaded figures of myth and nightmare.

I agree with you, giants seem to go well with folk horror. I think that's because giants also seem to invoke feelings of things primal and old world, long before the current ages of man. It might be helpful to think about some of the vestiges of their old societies, or perhaps think about how they might shape the behaviors of nearby humanoid societies. What odd and horrific practices might a remote little river town have in order to appease or even impress a group of swamp giants, for example? Or conversely, what desperate steps might they take to combat such foes?

Following the folk horror them, might work well in some places like Nu Tepest, or perhaps Hazlan with its various lost civilizations. Daglan would also be a natural for this (if you determined it somehow survived its seeming destruction- the FoS had it as part of the Duskreach cluster as of the Nocturnal Sea gazetteer- which might be an good cluster thematically for giants given the decaying world themes of its domains).

Regarding specific individual giants:
Dealing with characters who stray from their religious codes/philosophies, I tend to like themes of myopic twisting and subversion of their codes more than out and out abandonment. So if I was using the Ordning, perhaps a stone giant, in wanting to follow Artistry, might kill artists or beautiful things and put use their blood as paint, or even eat the brains of creatives in order to gain their artistic insights. Part of the horror would be the paradox of in trying to fulfill their Ordning, the fallen one somehow became so horribly aberrant they utterly desecrated it. Exploring how and why a corrupted giant might've gotten that way could make for an interesting scenario. Of course, some of the Ordning are dark enough that you can have "creative", RL appropriate interpretations while still keeping within the accepted tenets of the giant societies in question.

[KingCorn]

I actually have something similar with the Falkovnian idea: Project Jotun.
The experiment of a Lamordian immigrant who joined the Ministry of Intelligence, the Jotun serum can cause animals to grow to Dire size, though as a cost it drives them mad and makes them sterile.

As for the men, they require not just the serum but a series of adjusting surgieries, and combined with the serum causes them to be in immense pain. The serum also causes mental deterioration, leaving them like hulking, childlike monsters. However, in full plate armor, these things can withstand cannonballs.

The project is still in the early stages, though an early success in the serum and surgies was given to Drakov as a gift: A giant, roc-like falcon-vulture hybrid. The kyrnn-native king has named it Sargonnas and loves it terribly.

[Mistmaster]

Small clans of Hill, Stone, Forrest, Sand, Swamp and Fire Giants live in the Mistworld's Core expecially in Darkon, and Frost Giants in Okraina. Ogres live among the Goblinoid in Tepest and in Tepest you can find Trolls, of course. Atachs and Ettins are found in Forlorn, while Storm, Cloud, Ocean and Mountain Giants live in hidden comunities while the mystetious Mist Giants roam the Mists.

[Speedwagon]

Giants more than a lot of creatures will be dependent upon their environments for horror, particularly with spaces that can obscure their forms. Giant redwood forests, snow drifts, sand dunes, briny swamps, misty mountains, even dark waters, all might give the characters a brief glimpse of the giant's hands, eyes, or mouth without revealing its whole form. When not encountered in their native habitats, they will likely be mysterious raiders from parts unknown, spoken in hushed tones, and leaving horrendous devastation in their wake. A stray footprint, bit of hair, or even a lost tooth or nail could, through sheer size, act as ominous foreshadowing. As could listening to traumatized survivors. (So thinking about hyping up possibilities on the giants long before ever meeting them.) They may be blocked off by humongous walls yet still linger on as the Dreaded figures of myth and nightmare.

I agree with you, giants seem to go well with folk horror. I think that's because giants also seem to invoke feelings of things primal and old world, long before the current ages of man. It might be helpful to think about some of the vestiges of their old societies, or perhaps think about how they might shape the behaviors of nearby humanoid societies. What odd and horrific practices might a remote little river town have in order to appease or even impress a group of swamp giants, for example? Or conversely, what desperate steps might they take to combat such foes?

Following the folk horror them, might work well in some places like Nu Tepest, or perhaps Hazlan with its various lost civilizations. Daglan would also be a natural for this (if you determined it somehow survived its seeming destruction- the FoS had it as part of the Duskreach cluster as of the Nocturnal Sea gazetteer- which might be an good cluster thematically for giants given the decaying world themes of its domains).

Regarding specific individual giants:
Dealing with characters who stray from their religious codes/philosophies, I tend to like themes of myopic twisting and subversion of their codes more than out and out abandonment. So if I was using the Ordning, perhaps a stone giant, in wanting to follow Artistry, might kill artists or beautiful things and put use their blood as paint, or even eat the brains of creatives in order to gain their artistic insights. Part of the horror would be the paradox of in trying to fulfill their Ordning, the fallen one somehow became so horribly aberrant they utterly desecrated it. Exploring how and why a corrupted giant might've gotten that way could make for an interesting scenario. Of course, some of the Ordning are dark enough that you can have "creative", RL appropriate interpretations while still keeping within the accepted tenets of the giant societies in question.

These are all excellent points that I hadn’t really considered, so I appreciate the help! The example with the Stone Giant still following the Ordning but subverting/desecrating it gives a lot of ideas on how that can apply to other varieties of Giant.

Nu-Tepest and other places where folk horror would be applicable to or lost civilizations and primal fear is a good call for where to put these. I recently read Vecna Reborn and Die,Vecna,Die to prepare some ideas for a Burning Peaks Gazetteer project for QtR, and the description of Tovag gave the idea of “prehistoric, primal horror and fear”. So something like humongous walls to keep out Giants or Giants in the countryside by the River Tamross would be appropriate under that framework. Same for Hazlan or Daglan in the fan-made Duskreach Cluster (speaking of Daglan, it’s been mentioned a lot in the past few days, which is nice). Darkon’s also big enough to have a settlement where this is possible, and I’ve tried to keep Giants a step removed from the Core so as to give Clusters and Islands more details and play up the mythological factor of Giants (hard for a Lamordian or Dementlieuse scholar to believe such tall tales if you can’t find them in the nearby vicinity).

The point about their environments being important and how to build unease and tension is a great one—reminiscent of the advice given in the Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium’s opening pages, even! I’ll have to make sure to follow it well.

[SkiBird]

Giants — if only indirectly, and even then, as a 'ghost' — figured in the plot of the Castle of Otranto. One of the very first gothic tales.

Sins of the father being visited upon the son, a crumbling castle with secret passageways, a family with dark secrets, a forbidden love, portraits that move, ghostly apparitions, a prophecy/curse. A fair number of gothic tropes are present ...

A Ravenloft story that paid homage to that tale would fit in very well, I would think.

[IanFordam]

I could see an Outlander giant appearing in any given domain. A Big Fish Out of Water, if you will. Spectre of the Black Rose sold me on Nabon's presence, for example.

On the other hand, I would have a hard time imagining a society of giants existing in any of the Core domains except perhaps Darkon or maybe Verbrek. The former is large (and magic-heavy) enough, and the latter is wild enough, for a small enclave of such substantial creatures to exist without disrupting the entire domain around them.

Fortunately there's more leeway among the clusters and islands. The vastness of the Amber Wastes have plenty of room for the giants from Al-Qadim. The desert giants, in particular, are tragic even in their native setting, so it should be straightforward to turn their situation into something suitably gothic. I'm not familiar enough with Russian mythology to know whether it includes any sort of giant, but if so, then Vorostokov might have some giantish inhabitants. Sanguinia too. For that matter, if I recall the Ramayana correctly, there's at least one rakshasha (Kumbhakarna, maybe?) of giant proportions, so I could talk myself into a small society of giants existing in Sri Raji or Kalakeri. By the way time we escape domains with real-world counterparts, the (inevitably large) gates are thrown wide open. You've convinced me that giants would fit in the Burning Peaks, for example. By the time we consider custom domains, of course, we have all the room in the world to fit giants.

As for technique, I see two immediate ways to use giants. (There are plenty more, I'm sure.) The Lesser Evil does an excellent job of describing the first way: as an obscured but looming shadow in the wilderness or behind the wall. The second way, I think, would be to use giants as oppressors. Consider the kitchen orcs in Steading of the Hill GIant Chief. What if an entire town was similarly subject to giantish rule? Perhaps that sounds too much like high fantasy and not enough like horror, which case I point to John Christopher's Tripods trilogy for inspiration. I haven't read those books in forty years, yet they still linger with me.

[Speedwagon]

I could see an Outlander giant appearing in any given domain. A Big Fish Out of Water, if you will. Spectre of the Black Rose sold me on Nabon's presence, for example.

On the other hand, I would have a hard time imagining a society of giants existing in any of the Core domains except perhaps Darkon or maybe Verbrek. The former is large (and magic-heavy) enough, and the latter is wild enough, for a small enclave of such substantial creatures to exist without disrupting the entire domain around them.

Fortunately there's more leeway among the clusters and islands. The vastness of the Amber Wastes have plenty of room for the giants from Al-Qadim. The desert giants, in particular, are tragic even in their native setting, so it should be straightforward to turn their situation into something suitably gothic. I'm not familiar enough with Russian mythology to know whether it includes any sort of giant, but if so, then Vorostokov might have some giantish inhabitants. Sanguinia too. For that matter, if I recall the Ramayana correctly, there's at least one rakshasha (Kumbhakarna, maybe?) of giant proportions, so I could talk myself into a small society of giants existing in Sri Raji or Kalakeri. By the way time we escape domains with real-world counterparts, the (inevitably large) gates are thrown wide open. You've convinced me that giants would fit in the Burning Peaks, for example. By the time we consider custom domains, of course, we have all the room in the world to fit giants.

As for technique, I see two immediate ways to use giants. (There are plenty more, I'm sure.) The Lesser Evil does an excellent job of describing the first way: as an obscured but looming shadow in the wilderness or behind the wall. The second way, I think, would be to use giants as oppressors. Consider the kitchen orcs in Steading of the Hill GIant Chief. What if an entire town was similarly subject to giantish rule? Perhaps that sounds too much like high fantasy and not enough like horror, which case I point to John Christopher's Tripods trilogy for inspiration. I haven't read those books in forty years, yet they still linger with me.

Yeah, for a lot of the write-ups I made in the original post I had the giants as Outlanders, if only because I figured that the native population of giants was small due to the nature of the campaign setting. Plus the Outlander aspect of the giants allowed me to play with the Ordning's role in their damnation to the Mists and the fact that they were, as you said, 'Big Fish Out of Water'.

I hadn't thought of Verbrek though I did think of Darkon. Darkon is big enough that if your players were ever looking for a more, let's say "traditional" Dungeons and Dragons experience of dungeon-delving and saving a town from evil, then like you said, a small enclave of giants could work. Already you could combine The Lesser Evil's advice about making them an obscured but looming shadow by having the Giants in the Mistlands region of Darkon, or in the Mountains of Misery region (perhaps Ebb and Gloom don't like the fact that their racial enemies, as giants and dragons have had feuds in the past, are on their turf?) to work with the environment and give the player characters something to tie them down to Darkon (eg, 'congrats on handling the giant menace in this region, King Azalin would like to 'reward you' with an invitation to Castle Avernus and future job opportunities...). As for Verbrek, what honestly came to mind for me was a Paul Bunyan kind of figure, especially if it's piggybacking off of Mephisto's interpretation of Verbrek and Arkandale prior to Verbrek as a place for petty business tyrants and logging mills, as Paul Bunyan was heavily associated with stories of lumberjacks and what not.

Giants as oppressors is also a fun take, though one that I might reserve either for a place like Darkon (hence why Azalin would want the menace dealt with by adventurers or the Kargat, as it's a threat to his rule) or in Clusters & Islands. A place like Rokushima Taiyou, with so little detail in canon, could easily have something like an Oni extorting a village or a folk horror element of some kind with the villagers doing strange things to placate the Oni every month or season or year. Same with giants in the Frozen Reaches or in the Amber Wastes (that Al-Qadim idea is really good!) or Sri Raji and Kalakeri. And of course, the Burning Peaks (I'll be releasing the 'Speedwagon's Take On' that Cluster after I've added a few things to Staunton Bluffs and released the Wildlands.

I've ran Steading of the Hill Giant Chief before (it was a lot of fun) in an adaptation of the entire Against the Giants series for modules adapted to 5e as part of the Tales from the Yawning Portal anthology released a while ago. So something like that would work, especially if we take into account that Giants are uber-humanoids as I mentioned above. I'll have to look at the Tripods trilogy for inspiration. There's certainly a wealth of appearances of giants in folklore and mythology already, just through a cursory Wikipedia search: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... d_folklore

[HyperionSol]

I like the topic and I really like the discussion on how to fit giants into Ravenloft. For what it's worth, here is my two cents.

In typical fantasy setting, giants are definitely supposedly larger than life. But in Ravenloft, focusing on their symbolism would definitely be the way to go. Their bizarre distortion of the human form should be what makes them frightening. Bulbous noses, lanky arms, shadowed eyes. They look human enough to be recognized as human in shape, but off enough to now something is not right. But, this reveal should be done at a climax or some kind of special encounter.

If I were running Giants in my Ravenloft campaign, I would focus more on the effects they are having on the land. The easiest would be Hill Giants. when they come through, entire regions of land are stripped of food or anything remotely edible. In the worst case, the Hill Giants don't mind eating people if they look appetizing enough and there isn't enough food available.

Stone Giants would perhaps almost be benign, seeking their art rather than confrontation. Still, in their pursuit for their own artistic beauty, they warp and shape the very earth for it, which can lead to devastation above, especially if they believe settlements above are offending the shape of their art. It would be a distortion of human desire for beauty and culture, reshaping the world to devastating consequences.

Fire Giants would be another of the easiest. They go to war, battling each other, other giants, or whoever they think has something they want. They would utterly devastate regions either with their fighting, or stripping of resources and people for their crafts. They would seek to build themselves, a distortion of human desire to make something. All the giants can make are cruel, destructive, and often frightening works that adheres to their sensibilities, but appear brutal and unforgiving to others.

Ice Giants would, at first, possibly be thought as beneficial. They fight what can give them a challenge and clear lands of large terrors. Of course, then this leaves the greatest threats gone and allows smaller, and more numerous threats to come forward. I would view this as a distortion of a human desire to tame the land and impose order.

Cloud Giants, living high above Ravenloft would be a distortion of pride and vanity. They would casually toss their refuse away, likely either ignoring smallfolk or not knowing they exist down below. Their waste, what they consider trash, falls almost like meteors and devastates settlements it might fall on. They'd be a warped take on haughty thoughts of nobility, taken to an extreme.

Storm Giants would be a warped view of mysticism, possibly even faith. They take such a far distance, they commits several almost nonsensical actions to follow the signs and see them come to fruition. While it may have some benefit in the long term, in the short term, it only brings destruction and chaos since people have no idea these actions are coming and who is doing them. This warps the view of human long-term planning, putting to risk everything in the here and now for a possibility of tomorrow.

The point would be to see the effects of the giant first. Hiding them could be difficult, unless the giants learned to use the mists to cover their actions. Cloud and Storm giants are easier to hide. The others would use phenomenon like the mist, rain, or snow to hide their movements as smallfolk huddle to avoid it. Then they commit their actions, leaving only tracks which are slowly swallowed by the weather, or vanish into different terrain.

I admit this is off the top of my head and doesn't feel as deep as some of the symbolism talk here, but I hope it helps stir conversation.

[Manofevil]

For those wondering how to make giants scary, I suggest this scene from Jurassic Park:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc_i5TKdmhs

[Speedwagon]

I like the topic and I really like the discussion on how to fit giants into Ravenloft. For what it's worth, here is my two cents.

In typical fantasy setting, giants are definitely supposedly larger than life. But in Ravenloft, focusing on their symbolism would definitely be the way to go. Their bizarre distortion of the human form should be what makes them frightening. Bulbous noses, lanky arms, shadowed eyes. They look human enough to be recognized as human in shape, but off enough to now something is not right. But, this reveal should be done at a climax or some kind of special encounter.

If I were running Giants in my Ravenloft campaign, I would focus more on the effects they are having on the land. The easiest would be Hill Giants. when they come through, entire regions of land are stripped of food or anything remotely edible. In the worst case, the Hill Giants don't mind eating people if they look appetizing enough and there isn't enough food available.

Stone Giants would perhaps almost be benign, seeking their art rather than confrontation. Still, in their pursuit for their own artistic beauty, they warp and shape the very earth for it, which can lead to devastation above, especially if they believe settlements above are offending the shape of their art. It would be a distortion of human desire for beauty and culture, reshaping the world to devastating consequences.

Fire Giants would be another of the easiest. They go to war, battling each other, other giants, or whoever they think has something they want. They would utterly devastate regions either with their fighting, or stripping of resources and people for their crafts. They would seek to build themselves, a distortion of human desire to make something. All the giants can make are cruel, destructive, and often frightening works that adheres to their sensibilities, but appear brutal and unforgiving to others.

Ice Giants would, at first, possibly be thought as beneficial. They fight what can give them a challenge and clear lands of large terrors. Of course, then this leaves the greatest threats gone and allows smaller, and more numerous threats to come forward. I would view this as a distortion of a human desire to tame the land and impose order.

Cloud Giants, living high above Ravenloft would be a distortion of pride and vanity. They would casually toss their refuse away, likely either ignoring smallfolk or not knowing they exist down below. Their waste, what they consider trash, falls almost like meteors and devastates settlements it might fall on. They'd be a warped take on haughty thoughts of nobility, taken to an extreme.

Storm Giants would be a warped view of mysticism, possibly even faith. They take such a far distance, they commits several almost nonsensical actions to follow the signs and see them come to fruition. While it may have some benefit in the long term, in the short term, it only brings destruction and chaos since people have no idea these actions are coming and who is doing them. This warps the view of human long-term planning, putting to risk everything in the here and now for a possibility of tomorrow.

The point would be to see the effects of the giant first. Hiding them could be difficult, unless the giants learned to use the mists to cover their actions. Cloud and Storm giants are easier to hide. The others would use phenomenon like the mist, rain, or snow to hide their movements as smallfolk huddle to avoid it. Then they commit their actions, leaving only tracks which are slowly swallowed by the weather, or vanish into different terrain.

I admit this is off the top of my head and doesn't feel as deep as some of the symbolism talk here, but I hope it helps stir conversation.

Even if it’s off the top of your head, it’s really well thought-out! I appreciate your input.

The symbolism of each Giant is definitely something I want to emphasize, and I’ll be making a later post addressing some of those. Personally I’d switch Frost and Fire Giants if only because the former are more like chaotic Vikings while the latter are lawful evil and are more organized in their tyranny.

What I might do for this CotN, is write an initial article in the style of a Van Richten’s Guide that analyzes and discusses Giants in Ravenloft (whether native or Outlander) and then the actual CotN with associated NPCs and adventures.


Also, are you the same guy who did the Metropolis Cluster, with the Bendy and the Ink Machine Darklord? I really liked that idea, so if you ever update that, I’ll be happy to read more!

For those wondering how to make giants scary, I suggest this scene from Jurassic Park:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc_i5TKdmhs

A classic scene, and one that really helps with showing how big the dinos are. Excellent advice for the Giants! Especially if they’re obscured like the advice given by users above.

[KingCorn]

What I might do for this CotN, is write an initial article in the style of a Van Richten’s Guide that analyzes and discusses Giants in Ravenloft (whether native or Outlander) and then the actual CotN with associated NPCs and adventures.

Feel free to use my Project Jotun idea if you want it. Lord knows I'll never get around to it, I've only ever played dnd a couple of times. I'm just a lore and settings nerd

[Speedwagon]

What I might do for this CotN, is write an initial article in the style of a Van Richten’s Guide that analyzes and discusses Giants in Ravenloft (whether native or Outlander) and then the actual CotN with associated NPCs and adventures.

Feel free to use my Project Jotun idea if you want it. Lord knows I'll never get around to it, I've only ever played dnd a couple of times. I'm just a lore and settings nerd

I'll definitely make use of it then, and I appreciate your help KingCorn!

[Speedwagon]

Before I post any further updates or ideas to this thread, I wanted to post some art of Giants that I found that may or may not hit the mark for what exactly has been discussed in this thread, in terms of inspiration. I've never posted photos before on this forum so here goes nothing (may the Dark Powers be less mean than usual...). Feel free to let me know which ones really evoke the style of Ravenloft Giants more than the others! If this isn't the sort of thing that should be posted on a thread like this, I can perhaps put these images somewhere else like in the Visual Inspiration thread in The Dark Beyond. Lmk what works best!










Castle of Otranto, btw













My favorite

[Mephisto of the FoS]

I remembered the following from its cover, haven't read it though...

King of the Giantdowns (Birthright 2e)

Untamed by the laws of man, the Giantdowns region remains a buffer zone between the ruined empire of Anuire and its northern neighbor, the Rjurik Highlands. The Great Downs themselves are the stuff of legend: Giants, they say, are buried beneath the mounds, awaiting some call to rise and battle once more.

But in the meantime, other forces threaten the Downs. A new awnshegh, the humanoid known as Ghuralli, strives to make his small kingdom a rival to the neighboring Gorgon's Crown. His armies of humanoids, giant-kin, and monsters stand ready to strike at the few human settlers brave enough to live in the shadow of the Great Downs.

The Rjurik settlers need a leader, someone who can defeat Ghuralli and forge a kingdom out of their scattered clans. They need someone to step forth and become King of the Giantdowns.

This 64-page adventure accessory contains detailed information on the Giantdowns region, the people, monsters, and places that can be found within, and several adventures for beginning and experienced characters alike.