Phylactery Questions

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Clever! -- provided no one noticed it was their phylactery.

[alhoon]

That is a good point.
If the item has huge personal importance, the lich might want it available at all times, yet also safe.
[...]
if the associated feelings are profound enough, the lich might forego the phylactery's primary purpose and just ward it to the hilt and carry it around with them.

But liches are no more human and I would think such emotional attachments are gone by them by the process of them becoming undead. Furthermore, if the lich DID have such emotional connection with an object... why turn that object to its phylactery instead of simply warding that item very very well?

[IanFordam]

But liches are no more human and I would think such emotional attachments are gone by them by the process of them becoming undead. Furthermore, if the lich DID have such emotional connection with an object... why turn that object to its phylactery instead of simply warding that item very very well?

I agree that liches usually become more, ah, unnaturally focused in their attention, but not that they cease to have any emotional attachments. The attachments that survive the transformation I would expect to become deeply rooted, even obsessive.

After all, if Azalin doesn't feel any lingering attachment to Irik, he becomes a much less interesting character.

[alhoon]

Azalin though would have no issues sacrificing Irik, along with everyone and everything else in Ravenloft, in order to escape.

Still, even with the emotional attachment notion which could be ingrained to some liches by a flaw in the process or, let's be honest, with the Dark Powers toying with and taunting the now immortal wizard...
why would such a mage create a phylactery out of such an item instead of simply making that item much more durable?

What I mean is say, you are Evilwi Zard and in the process to become an undead you poisoned your wife and your daughter and you kept the hairclip of your daughter, the one you have made for your wife for your wedding night and later passed to your daughter etc etc.
Before you become a lich you want to make a phylactery. Why turn THAT hairclip that symbolizes the biggest moments of your mortal life (the love of your life and your kid) and the sacrifices you made for magic etc etc etc... to your phylactery, instead of making that hairclip very durable and resistant and make a phylactery out of a gem-studded jewelry box (like common phylactery choices) ?

[IanFordam]

I agree that most liches would follow the more prudent path. My real assertion is that a sufficiently compelling backstory could convince me that a particular lich might make the more sentimental choice.

Also, your point about the Dark Powers is well made. Particularly for a lich drawn into the Land of Mists by the circumstances of his transformation, I have no problem believing that the Dark Powers would arbitrarily reassign the new lich's phylactery to something unintended... just for that extra bit of tasty, tasty torment.

[Mistmaster]

That is a good point.
If the item has huge personal importance, the lich might want it available at all times, yet also safe.
[...]
if the associated feelings are profound enough, the lich might forego the phylactery's primary purpose and just ward it to the hilt and carry it around with them.

But liches are no more human and I would think such emotional attachments are gone by them by the process of them becoming undead. Furthermore, if the lich DID have such emotional connection with an object... why turn that object to its phylactery instead of simply warding that item very very well?

Sapient undead are still fundamentally human. They can forget a bit about the joy of living but if they keep themselves trained they won't.

[Baron Von Stanton]

Sapient undead are still fundamentally human. They can forget a bit about the joy of living but if they keep themselves trained they won't.

In Van Richten's Guides to Vampires and the Lich, he discusses how despair because of their inability to derive any sort of joy out of their wretched existence leads many neonate vampires and liches to end themselves

[alhoon]

Sapient undead are still fundamentally human. They can forget a bit about the joy of living but if they keep themselves trained they won't.

In Van Richten's Guides to Vampires and the Lich, he discusses how despair because of their inability to derive any sort of joy out of their wretched existence leads many neonate vampires and liches to end themselves

For vampires, yes. For liches, there was no such mention that I remember. I also disagree that sapient undead are still fundamentally human. For one thing, one of the major things that makes us human is our mortality and the realization we have limited time. Another major thing is ... biology.


But those asides - after all each of us can play undead as he or she wants - this does not change what I said about the memento the lich keeps on itself. That major memento with the emotional weight can be heavily enchanted for protections and the lich may keep it on its person for comfort or to remember an enemy etc... but it doesn't have to be a phylactery. A lich that has such an item could have a different phylactery and in all honesty, I would use that memento as an allergen similar to ghosts.

[Mistmaster]

Sapient undead are still fundamentally human. They can forget a bit about the joy of living but if they keep themselves trained they won't.

In Van Richten's Guides to Vampires and the Lich, he discusses how despair because of their inability to derive any sort of joy out of their wretched existence leads many neonate vampires and liches to end themselves

One of the many wrong observation the good doctor made, in my opinion. Van Richten was an hunter and his observations were colored by that aptitude.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

One of the many wrong observation the good doctor made, in my opinion. Van Richten was a hunter and his observations were colored by that aptitude.

He was first a doctor then a hunter and at the same time a scholar as Van Helsing.

Professor Abraham Van Helsing, a fictional character from the 1897 gothic horror novel Dracula, is an aged Dutch polymath doctor with a wide range of interests and accomplishments, partly attested by the string of letters that follows his name: "MD, D.Ph., D.Litt., etc.", indicating a wealth of experience, education and expertise. He is a doctor, professor, lawyer, philosopher, scientist and metaphysic.

[Mistmaster]

I know Van Richtens origins, and the original source, I called him good doctor, but still, his PoV is colored by his experiences. Vampires will never be his vavourire kind of people. Archibald Everlast positions are more balanced.

[IanFordam]

Can I take just a moment to express appreciation for a setting where both "Van Richten made a mistake because his prejudices color his perceptions" and "Van Richten was right because he is knowledgeable and observant" are both deliberately valid interpretations of the source materials?

[alhoon]

Yes and we should also all keep in mind that this is fantasy so we can interpret vampires and liches as we want.

[Mistmaster]

Can I take just a moment to express appreciation for a setting where both "Van Richten made a mistake because his prejudices color his perceptions" and "Van Richten was right because he is knowledgeable and observant" are both deliberately valid interpretations of the source materials?

True enought.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

I found a recipe for Lichnee, also known as a potion of transformation, a highly poisonous mixture that had to be imbibed as part of an evil ritual to become a lich. This looks like a good scenario as adventurers try to find what goes on behind some disappearances or murders they realise that someone is trying to create this potion.

Recipe
The following ingredients had to be mixed together in this specific order under the light of a full moon:

• 2 drops of pure distillate of arsenic
  1 drop of pure distillate of belladona
  1 quart of blood from a human infant killed by wyvern venom
  1 quart of blood from a non-human humanoid killed by a phase spider
  1 quart of blood from an individual infected with vampirism
  1 simmered intact heart from a humanoid killed by a mixture of arsenic and belladona poisoning
  7 sets of ground-up reproductive glands from giant moths killed within a tenday
  1 pint or more of fresh phase spider venom (less than a month old),
  1 pint or more of fresh wyvern venom (less than two months old).

There existed alternative recipes that disputed certain details, such as what kinds of humanoids' blood to use, how old they had to be, and whether or not they were a virgin.

In addition, the soul of a sentient creature whose blood was used in the potion had to be sacrificed to the aspiring lich's phylactery.

Some versions of the lich transformation ritual further called for the potion to be enchanted with castings of animate dead, cone of cold, feign death, permanency, and wraithform.