Help me with ideas - Train adventure

[WolfKook]

Hi, everyone!

I wanted to ask you for help in filling the gaps for the adventure I'm currently planning for my group.

We're currently running RL over PF2, and have just finished the adventure "Child of the House". The heroes, though still level 1, have made a reputation for themselves in the village of Talanka (Western Darkon) and their deeds have reached the ears of potential patrons.

As you've probably guessed from the title, in my RL I've ruled that trains and railroads exist... So, there are several businessmen and engineers in Talanka trying to build a railroad from Martira Bay to Rivalis to circunvent the old road to Il Aluk (Now Necropolis). That's actually something that was established in the adventure, though it mentioned "roads", not "railroads".

So, that takes me to the adventure...

The hook
The idea is that the PCs are hired to protect the passengers of a high-class inaugural train route (Working Title: The Mistpiercer, though I'm open to suggestions) that departs from Martira Bay and travels through the core, but also goes to several clusters and islands of terror.

How? Well, the engineers of the company have managed to create a "mist-compass" that allows the train to navigate through the mists unerringly. They have marketed the first trip as a breakthrough and have sold tickets at huge prices. However, as they approach the date of the trip, they have started to receive veiled threats... Some routes have been sabotaged and there have been messages indicating that the train would never reach its destination. They don't know whether the culprits are competitors, luddites or even some other group, but they're concerned about the safety of their train, their investments and their reputation.

The adventure
What I have envisioned is a mashup of "Murder on the Orient Express" and "Alien", with a little intrigue to spice things up. My overall plan goes as follows:

1. The PCs get aboard the Mistpiercer and meet several of the passengers, most of them very rich, and just a little suspicious.

• The train departs, and the PCs have the opportunity to see the landscape and to chat with the passengers. The idea here is to give them a feel of what's happening in the world and to create hooks for future adventures (Making some of them into potential patrons), but also to make them feel that most of the passengers are hiding something.

• The train enters the mists, and there will be an opportunity for the PCs to (roughly) see what's going on, and how the mist compass works.

• In the second jump, in the middle of the night, the mist compass is stolen and its operators murdered (Perhaps there's a distraction to get them away from the main engine). From there, it's clear that without the mist compass, the train will be lost in the mists forever, so the first priority should be to retrieve the compass.

Now, I'd like that just as they're jumping into conclusions about the culprit, he/she ends up dead, in the most gruesome way (They were right about him/her, but there is someone else behind the mist compass).

I'd also like to have some kind of creature or creatures (I'm thinking something like the creatures from the movie Pitch Black or the batlike creatures from the last season of Stranger Things) emerging from the mists and becoming like a ticking clock: If they don't get the compass in time, they will rise in number until no one is left alive in the train.

What's Missing
Now, while I'm in love with the outline, I still need to fill in the gaps of several plot holes:

1. Who would want to steal the compass? (As I said above, there could be competitors and luddites, but I would like to have several candidates to account for red herrings and other suspects)

• Why wouldn't they just use the compass to get out of the train?

• What kind of creatures they encounter? (They should pose little threat for 1st level characters individually, but should become very dangerous in large groups)

• Why are these creatures lured to the train? Is there someone behind it? Or is there something they're after?

Indeed, any ideas to help round up the adventure would be very appreciated.

Than you in advance!

[Pizza]

Seems like the Vistani might have issues with giorgio being able to unerringly move through the Mists even if it is on a fixed route.

[SkiBird]

My first thought was to use a ghost in some fashion. A ghost conductor perhaps?

Another thought that popped into my head was to include a train-hopping scene where the PCs fight their way in, on, and above different cars [like the scene from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade ... where young Indy tussles with the artifact thieves].

Not trying to derail the thread and make it about the merits of using/not using AI ... but I've been tinkering around with ChatGPT lately, giving it D&D related prompts to help flesh out ideas.

Full disclosure ... everything that is enclosed in the spoiler tags of this post was ChatGPT's answer after I asked it to throw me 5 plot ideas using the following prompt:

"Set in the D&D setting of Ravenloft, there will be a horror adventure tale set aboard a moving train, give me 5 plot ideas about who could have stolen the magical compass that guides the train"

Here was what the AI had to say about it:

VIEW CONTENT:

The Vengeful Ghost: A tormented spirit from Ravenloft's past haunts the train, seeking revenge against the descendants of those who wronged it. The ghost, able to manipulate ethereal energy, steals the magical compass to disrupt the train's course and terrorize the passengers. The adventurers must uncover the ghost's tragic history and find a way to appease or defeat it to retrieve the compass.

The Cursed Artifact Collector: A mysterious collector of cursed artifacts has boarded the train, seeking to add the magical compass to their macabre collection. The collector is a master of illusions and disguises, making it challenging to identify their true identity. As the train hurtles through the dark and treacherous lands of Ravenloft, the adventurers must uncover the collector's motives, navigate through their deceptive traps, and reclaim the compass.

The Mad Necromancer: A deranged necromancer, known for conducting sinister experiments, has infiltrated the train and stolen the magical compass to power their dark rituals. The necromancer's twisted creations roam the carriages, spreading fear and chaos. The adventurers must navigate the labyrinthine train, facing undead monstrosities and solving puzzles, to confront the mad necromancer and retrieve the compass before their nefarious plans come to fruition.

The Coven of Witches: A powerful coven of witches, banished to Ravenloft for their wicked deeds, seeks to tap into the magic of the compass to regain their lost powers. Each witch possesses unique abilities and disguises themselves among the passengers, making it difficult to identify them. The adventurers must unravel the web of deceit, face the witches' malevolent spells, and prevent them from accessing the compass's full potential.

The Manipulative Vampire: A cunning vampire, renowned for their ability to charm and manipulate others, has infiltrated the train, stealing the compass to gain an advantage over their rivals in Ravenloft. The vampire hides among the passengers, using their charm to turn the unsuspecting against the adventurers. To retrieve the compass, the adventurers must navigate a web of social intrigue, uncover the vampire's true identity, and outwit their clever manipulations.

At the very least, some of those ideas might be used as the seed of something different or greater? Or maybe supply the rumored 'red herring' that a mystery would need?

[Lord_Pruitt]

One of the first ideas that comes to mind - about the mist-compass - the nefarious bad-guy can't just take the compass and disappear - the train has to arrive in a domain before the compass can be completely removed from the train. Perhaps, by killing the compass keepers and removing the compass from the engine car, the train will "crash" at the nearest domain (instead of the intended domain), there by shortening the trip. Then, when the train crashes, the bad-guy can make off with the compass and return to his lair, after he leaves his destructive minions behind to eliminate any witnesses.

Next is, why does the bad guy want to compass? Following on my above idea, s/he could be a 1/2 vistani that wants the compass' inventor to suffer. Why this is would depend upon campaign specifics and set-up, but perhaps these two NPCs could be half-siblings, with the inventor being a non-vistani creator/artificer that the bad-guy 1/2 vistani wants to see epically fail. And since the inventor is an artificer type, maybe be stereotypical and make the bad guy a necromancer.

[Manofevil]

I like Mistpiercer. Keep Mistpiercer.

[A G Thing]

I like the idea of the train compass being stolen because of Vistani but maybe if the compass is made from Vistani secrets or the person is killed then that could explain a bit more as well.
Like the other Vistani curse the one who killed their kin or stole the knowledge and brought this down on them.
Also plenty of people want to traverse the mists unhindered. The Red Vardo Trading company due to Jacquelyn may want it or Azalin may see it as more valuable and beyond darklords or pure villains any other train company or interests would want it.

But I also run trains in the mists so I have a number of house rules for my game in OG Pathfinder that could be useful for reference. I will put them in the spoiler tag below.

VIEW CONTENT:

TRAIN HOUSE RULES FOR QUICK REFERENCE

Note that Trains traveling through a region 1 per day was uncommon in most stations not along a main line and often there were up to a week where a train may not pass through. For random delay for the next train to appear roll 1d10 -1d2 days and if result is 0 then next day and if -1 then a second train enters the station on that day as well. Note also that trains may be going the wrong way or other places so if you wish to randomly determine if the train is headed the right way just roll a d% and on a 1 to 50 on the die it is otherwise it is going somewhere else. Further if you want a train may be delayed a day or two so if you wish roll a d6. 1 to 2 it leaves on time, 3 to 4 it is delayed a day and 5 to 6 it is delayed another day.
Other delays or issues are left to the DM's desires.

TRAINS TEND TO RUN AN AVERAGE SPEED OF 25 Mile Per Hour to sometimes higher speeds of 30 MPH but this is often more risky due to the possibility of dereailing.
Higher grade steel track is needed to safely at higher speeds above this without damaging the track or derailing though older trains willing to run at higher speed could go up to 60 mph though the risks on iron track which was standard was far higher at anything beyond 30 mph.
Trains still needed to slow down for turns even on higher grade steel track so they often went down to at least 25 to 30 mph even on such turns while trains on iron track tended to go down to 15 to 20 mph on some turns just to be safe.

AVERAGE FUEL AND WATER CONSUMPTION
2.44 tons of coal and 2,880 gallons of water per hour to maintain and average speed.
I round this to 2.5 tons of coal and 3,000 gallons of water respectively.
So this is 5,000 pounds of coal and 25,020 pounds of water.
One pound of coal could turn six pounds of water to steam. While the engine uses quite a bit of the water it also reclaims some of it so honestly you are using to simplify only 3 lbs of water lost per pound burned.
Real world tender/coal/fuel car capacity ratios were normally close to 14 tons (28,000 lb) of coal per 10,000 gallons (83,400 lb) of water.
Averaging this I run it at 15 tons or 30,000 lbs of coal and 15,000 gallons or 125,100 lbs of water in a trains tender/fuel/coal car.
AVERAGE RATE would be at 25 miles per hour with a fuel supply of 30,000 lbs of coal and 180,000 lbs of water in the tender/coal/fuel car would allow the train to run for about 6 hours going over 150 miles.

HOW OFTEN TO REFUELING = Train Refueling Stop at minimum every 150 miles.
A REFUELING STOP TOOK 1 HOUR

Train Car order and number
Average minimum car number per train: 11 cars not counting the engine.
Max car number per train: 40 not counting engine.
• Engine usually only 1.
• Tender/Coal Cars usually 1 to 2 but up more added up to 5 very rarely depending upon needs.
• Luxury Dining Cars usually 1 but sometimes 2 depending upon needs.
• Luxury Passenger Cars usually 1 but up to 5 depending upon needs. Each car holds up to 12 people at most.
• Normal Dining Cars usually 1 but up to 3 depending upon needs.
• Private Passenger Cars usually 1 but up to 5 depending upon needs. Each car holds 1 to 8 people often but at users discretion can fit 12.
• Standard Passenger Cars usually 3 cars but up to 10 or 15 depending upon needs.
• Cargo Cars usually 3 at minimum but up to 32 total cargo cars are possible
• Caboose usually only 1.
FIRST NOTE: That adjustments up assume other base cars of the types are still there so 11 cars on base usually are accounted but a train might remove certain base cars to raise the number of other cars it can tow though the number should remain about 40 cars at maximum if the train is based as above. THAT
SECOND NOTE: For every so many 10 or so cars you should add a coal car and or have the train stop at refueling stops for water and coal at least whenever it can as it is hauling more weight, burning more fuel and needing more pressure to move and keep moving that much added weight.

TRAIN RAIL CONSTRUCTION COSTS

Each mile of any railroad track is 8,000 gp in labor to make the land suitable and lay the finished track down.
The cost for a yard of 80 lb iron railroad track is by the rules for iron being 1 sp a pound so it is 8 gp for that yard of track.
For a mile of such track it is 1,760 yards so it is 14,080 gp for a mile of such track.

Note that iron railroad tracks limit trains to 25 miles per hour and need to be replaced on average 3 to 5 years normally or in areas of extreme use such as near stations and stops sometimes only last 3 months before needing replacing.
The costs for this replacing were about 100 gp in labor per mile and about 5% of the iron rails cost as the remaining iron rail could be salvaged and reused or resold.

The cost for steel railroad track are double the costs of iron rail but allowed for sections with straight lines to let trains often get to upwards of 60 miles per hour. Turns still had to be handled at slower speeds.
Steel rail also lasted on average 9 to 15 years though again near stations or stops or other busy areas it could occasionally need replacing within about 1 year.

TRAIN CAR CONSTRUCTION COSTS

A TRAIN PASSENGER CAR IS 6000 lbs.
Cost to Make = 10,000 gp.

A TRAIN FLAT CAR IS 3000 lbs.
Cost to Make = 1,600 gp.

A TRAIN LOCOMOTIVE IS 12,000 TO 20,000 lbs.
Cost to Make is in the millions of gp.

A TRAIN CARGO CAR IS 4000 lbs.
Cost to Make = 6,000 gp.
Can carry about 30 tons of cargo inside.

A TRAIN TENDER/FUEL/COAL CAR IS 8000 lbs.
Cost to Make = 6,000 gp.

A TRAIN CABOOSE IS 3000 lbs. (Note that this is the crews personal living car and defense of back)
Cost to Make = 10,000 gp.

A TRAIN DINING CAR IS 4000 lbs.
Cost to Make = 10,000 gp.

CRUDE OIL SHIPPED IN PAST
OIL TANK 2500 lbs made of bronze
On a flat car is how it usually is shipped.
OIL TANK THAT SIZE CONTAINS 20,000 Liters or 40110 lbs. per tank.

BOARDER TAXES SIMPLE (Knowledge Local for land at DC of 15)
0.01 TO 0.05 Percent rounded to nearest copper piece = Reasonable
0.1 TO 0.5 Percent rounded to nearest copper piece = Unreasonable
1 TO 5 Percent rounded to nearest copper piece = Excessive

TRAIN CREW POSITIONS
Freight Train Crew Basic = 5 to 6 total
Head Conductor = 1 per train and runs the train staff and manages other employees.
Paid as Scribe (1 gp/day).
Trainmen/Brakemen, = 2 per train minimum who go and deal with switches and breaks.
Paid as Trained Hirelings (3 sp/day).
Engineer = 1 per train mans the actual engine and keeps it maintained and running.
Paid as Scribe (1 gp/day).
Fireman = 1 to 2 per train and both keeps the coal shoveling going and assists the engineer.
Paid as Untrained Hirelings (1 sp/day).

Passenger Train Crew Basic = 4 to 5 total
Assistant Conductor = 1 per train if passengers and heads some level of security.
Paid as Footman (5 sp/day).
Dining Car Cook = 1 per dining car sometimes pulling serving duties on cheaper service.
Paid as Trained Hirelings (3 sp/day).
Dining Car Server = 1 per dining car on some fancier dining cars.
Paid as Untrained Hirelings (1 sp/day).
Car Attendants = 1 per 2 passenger cars as general guards or seating and cargo check staff.
Paid as Untrained Hirelings (1 sp/day).

Other guards or attendant staff are added or removed as needed but seldom does the train staff number beyond 30 souls even for the longest of trains though guards often push that higher but usually they are paid for by private security concerns.

TRAIN STATION STAFF
Laborers = 5+ per station are often hired men for labor in the warehouses or private interests in the company and paid for their labor moving cargo and fuel for the trains.
Station Managers = 1 per station and are usually paid as conductors and manage the stations and keep the schedule and records.
Clerks = 1+ per station and they usually work to man ticket booths and also deal with other aspects such as cargo manifests or the like are usually paid as Assistant Conductors or Trained/Hirelings.
Guards = 3+ per station are both the companies and private and often range in both ability and availability based on the size and importance of the station but are often well equipped. They are paid usually for a static wage as if Untrained or Trained Hirelings but those with seniority or who are made captains of the guard can have higher wages usually up to that of a Footman at most.
Repair Staff = 1+ per station as they are basically paid as either Trainmen/Breakmen or Engineers but often only called specifically to inspect trains unless repairs are needed and occasionally work other jobs between their inspection work.
Linemen = 2+ per station who go out and check the nearby lines and often range on the tracks to check them for issues and problems and paid as Untrained Labors.

A station usually has somewhere around 12 to 30 or maybe more employees if large enough to warrant them for that stop.

BASIC TRAIN FARES AND COSTS
Fare Type Price
Common Fare per 500 miles 1 gp
Luxury Fare 50 miles or less 2 gp
Luxury Fare 51 to 100 miles 3 gp
Luxury Fare Each 500 miles 5 gp
Private Fare Each 500 miles 10 gp (This does not include the cost of attaching the private car which is likely 60 gp per 100 miles)
Dining Car Meal (Good Quality) 5 sp

TRAIN CARGO COST IS 1 cp per pound per 100 miles traveled.
DANGEROUS CARGO COST IS +2 cp per pound per 100 miles traveled.

TELEPORTING ON OR OFF OF MOVING OBJECTS
SPEED OF MOVING TRAIN = 220 ft. per round for a train moving 25 miles per hour.
Teleport and Greater Teleport and other teleportation spells that imply safety so they do not impart momentum.
Dimension Door or lesser teleportation magic not implying safety do require an acrobatics check.
Teleporting onto or from a moving train/object at decent velocity when the spell does not implies safety it requires a DC 10 +1 per 10 ft. traveled speed max DC 30 Reflex save or Acrobatics or fall flat or be thrown. Making the DC reduces the damage by half and reduces the distance to 5 ft. thrown if horizontal. If vertical then you remain in the square landed in but take half the damage.

COAL PRICES
Highgrade per pound is 2 cp
40 gp per Ton Highgrade
Lowgrade per 4 pounds is 1 cp
5 gp per Ton Lowgrade

RARE TRAIN ENGINE EXPLOSION
If a train engine ever explodes it deals 5d6 Fire, 5d6 Bludgeoning, 5d6 Slashing, 5d6 Piercing damage to all creatures within 100 ft. of the engine with a DC 20 reflex save for half. The radius is also covered in a cloud of smoke and remaining steam for 1 round blinding those around it as if fog cloud. Any creature caught in the blast is also subject to a DC 20 fort save or be deafened for 1d2 minutes and on a roll of natural one on the save has their eardrums ruptured and remain deafened until healed for the damage done with magic. Objects that can catch fire in the radius only need to make a DC 15 reflex save to avoid catching fire. The engine of the train along with any car directly behind it are completely destroyed and remaining scrap is spread over that 100 ft. radius.
OF NOTE: This usually only happened if the water in the engine was too low and other circumstances usually when refueling at a station caused a rupture at this time but even a good crew if the gauges were off or they missed signs could have this happen.

[SkiBird]

I like the idea of the train compass being stolen because of Vistani but maybe if the compass is made from Vistani secrets ...

I'm really digging the Vistani angle. Riffing on the 'made from Vistani secrets' angle ... perhaps even made from VIstani?

Similar to how folks can use a needle and place it on a floating cork to create a makeshift magnetic compass ... perhaps the mist-compass is some sort of glass orb that contains the suspended finger bone of a Raunie or something?

[Jeremy16]

I like the idea of the train compass being stolen because of Vistani but maybe if the compass is made from Vistani secrets ...

I'm really digging the Vistani angle. Riffing on the 'made from Vistani secrets' angle ... perhaps even made from VIstani?

Similar to how folks can use a needle and place it on a floating cork to create a makeshift magnetic compass ... perhaps the mist-compass is some sort of glass orb that contains the suspended finger bone of a Raunie or something?

Having the Vistani wanting to get the mist compass is a good idea, but that still leaves the problem of why they wouldn't just hijack it and then step off the train and disappear into the mists. I think the Vistani angle would work better as the red herring. It would be a good way to cast suspicion on any passenger you would like. All one person has to do is say, "That guy has curly, black hair... he's a Vistani spy!" and all hell would break loose.

Meanwhile, the real culprit might be a rival businessman, who wants to steal the mist compass, reverse engineer it, then mass produce it for profits. During the theft maybe some vital piece was broken off or lost, so the thief can't use it to get themselves off the train safely. Plus, this gives the culprit a good motive to interrogate and kill other passengers, as they desperately search for someone with the know-how to fix the mist compass for them.

As for baddies,why not take a page of of The Mist and have the fog slowly travel up the train compartments (starting at the caboose), and the passengers within being killed or eaten up by whatever "things" are hiding within it? The PCs and other passengers only hear their fellow traveler's screams and see large shadowy shapes. That is a great way to up the tension without having direct combat, and provides motivation for the PCs to figure everything out as fast as they can since eventuall the mist WILL reach their compartment!

[Mistmaster]

In my Ravenloft you have two main groups which can mist-travel safetly, the Church of Ezra and the Vistani Tasques, and the first might be willing to partecipate to a similar endeavior, after all, uniting the lands and people separated by the mists is kinda of part of their mission.