Re: Origin of Vistani, Ezra, Hala?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:50 am
That's true with everything though. People are stepping on eggshells.
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I always thought Hala was "Crystal Dragon Wicca", contrasting Ezra as "Crystal Dragon Jesus".KingCorn wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:41 am For Hala, I found a pretty intersting possible inspiration for her: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ala_(demon)
Apparently a female mythological creature of Bulgarian and Serbian culture, and was basically a mixture of the Greek Lamia and the Slavic Baba Yaga, known for its appatite and said to control the weather.
However, the Ala seems to be a strictly evil creature, so besides the magic and snakes, theirs less connection to hala.
Considering worshippers of Hala wield 'The Weave', more than likely she was inspired by a mixture of Mystra and Selune.
My larger point is that people are looking at documentation from the past which uses the term "gypsy", and impugning the authors for not using a neologism that wasn't even widespread or widely accepted. Imagine for example if there was a movement that said use of the word "Burma" in the past was racist, even though Myanmar (Burma) had not established that as the name for their state yet. It's similar, but "Roma" is even more tenuous than such a case.Wolfglide of the Fraternity wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:32 am [Still, it is interesting how the authors discuss the tensions between the "Gypsy"-identifying Romani and the "Roma"-identifying Romani. Either term could cause trouble in the wrong context.
That is fair; we can't complain that people were not using "Roma" before it came into use as a term for the group as a whole. That said, "gypsy" was still based on a bad assumption in the past by outsiders to the culture, so it wasn't a particularly great option.tomokaicho wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:26 amMy larger point is that people are looking at documentation from the past which uses the term "gypsy", and impugning the authors for not using a neologism that wasn't even widespread or widely accepted.
I had a similar thought, and I appreciate the reference to that trope. For those not in the loop: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... ragonJesusHell_Born wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:11 pmI always thought Hala was "Crystal Dragon Wicca", contrasting Ezra as "Crystal Dragon Jesus".KingCorn wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:41 am For Hala, I found a pretty intersting possible inspiration for her: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ala_(demon)
Apparently a female mythological creature of Bulgarian and Serbian culture, and was basically a mixture of the Greek Lamia and the Slavic Baba Yaga, known for its appatite and said to control the weather.
However, the Ala seems to be a strictly evil creature, so besides the magic and snakes, theirs less connection to hala.
Considering worshippers of Hala wield 'The Weave', more than likely she was inspired by a mixture of Mystra and Selune.
I'll try to find it when I am home tomorrow.tomokaicho wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 2:07 am Resonant Curse - do you have a page number for the Vistani homeland? Because from what I read (via Internet Archive) the protagonist is a "prince of the Vistani" which is new and interesting, but I can't find an indicator that it is the Vistani homeland.
Nobody eXP-Ects the Ezran Inquisition!...alhoon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:03 pm Considering how little I know about Wicca and that, at least IMO, Wicca is not a well defined religious movement, I have trouble with the Hala / Wicca thing.
On the other hand, Ezra is dissimilar to Christian church in a great many ways. The Inquisition is not even Ezra's IIRC.
Yeah. Just no. Wicca was founded in the 1930s by Gerald Gardner. It makes claims to connection to witchcraft, however, there is no connection.
And thus, Faith is sure to take root in such dark places. Especially when you have people, even few people, that can actually do miracles or use magic.tomokaicho wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:36 am Faith gives hope and certainty. A powerful church like the Ezran church changes the facts on the ground.
But those don't have to do with the trappings and idioms of the Catholic church. Even the part that there are sects instead of a pope or Patriarch, or that there are Anchorites going out with a sword in hand and heavy armor... those do not bring to mind the Catholics or any priesthood.Mephisto of the FoS wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:39 am
It is insinuated that the Nevuchar Springs Sect does have a "Spanish Inquisition-like department" trying to uproot the Legions of the Night.
The theology of the Nevuchar Springs Sect places particular emphasis on ..
Also in Heroes of Light there is the Anchorite Inquisitor prestige class, ...
My approach is 9 archetypal deities with endless local aspects and poltheistic pantheons. I have three proselitizing cults who have reason to be world wide: The Church of Ezra, the Divinity of Self and the Iron Church.First and Last have a very Catholic-like ierarchy.alhoon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:22 amAnd thus, Faith is sure to take root in such dark places. Especially when you have people, even few people, that can actually do miracles or use magic.tomokaicho wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:36 am Faith gives hope and certainty. A powerful church like the Ezran church changes the facts on the ground.
I have no issues with established religion in Ravenloft and I think it is a very reasonable and realistic turn that adds to the setting. What I don't like is that there are too few religions. It is practically Ezra + something else in most places. I would like an approach of "3-4 major religions + local, domain-wide religions + superstitions, cults, fiends"
But those don't have to do with the trappings and idioms of the Catholic church. Even the part that there are sects instead of a pope or Patriarch, or that there are Anchorites going out with a sword in hand and heavy armor... those do not bring to mind the Catholics or any priesthood.Mephisto of the FoS wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:39 am
It is insinuated that the Nevuchar Springs Sect does have a "Spanish Inquisition-like department" trying to uproot the Legions of the Night.
The theology of the Nevuchar Springs Sect places particular emphasis on ..
Also in Heroes of Light there is the Anchorite Inquisitor prestige class, ...
I believe the different sects of the Church of Ezra were probably inspired by the different dogmas of the Christian faith, but the Church of Ezra is not a copy of the Christian Church(es) and definitely not a copy of Catholicism, though it is inspired by it.
I believe the Church of the Lawgiver is more similar to having a Pope or Patriarch but still you have Bastions' Councils that discuss vital issues affecting the Church as a whole, similar to the various Christian Councils (Council of Ephesus, Council of Chalcedon etc.). In the Church of Ezra the Bastions of different sects have the authority of unchallenged leadership over their respective sect, yet bind themselves, in principle at the very least, to the decisions of the Bastions' Council and recognise the greater authority of the Praesidius of the Church of Ezra.
I will disagree to this cause there were many religious military orders in the past like the Knights Templar, the Knights Hospitaller, the Order of Saint James, the Order of Calatrava, and the Teutonic Knights and dozens of Crusades that show otherwise.