Café de Nuit

Through experience of DMing I have had PCs both roll for their stats and use the 26 point system. Does anyone have a preference as to which works better? Now that I am re-running an old game, I am thinking as to which method to use for the PCs. I never really saw a difference in eithermethod, except that the point system made for slower advancement in the game.

I'm not sure what you mean about slow advancement. I like the point buy system for its flexibility and fairness. If a player has a great idea for a character, I don't want him not to be able to play it because he rolled poorly.

I am still a fan of the method I have always used.

Roll 4d6, drop the lowest, repeat this 5 more times. Apply scores wherever they are desired. You may then subract 2 from any score to add 1 to any requisite ability score (Str for fights, Int for wazards, etc).

Simple really and has stood the test of time.

Of course, replacement player characters are a different story, I have pre-rolled characters for all of the replacement characters in my games

For this you take a character sheet, roll and apply the ability scores, applythe race and the modifiers, perhaps a class (if you feel mean). I you feel very mean, apply some skills you feel the character should havem, maybe a feat, perhaps one or two spells, a little equipment and then put it in the pile for someone to choose at random.

Wiccy of the Fraternity wrote: Roll 4d6, drop the lowest, repeat this 5 more times. Apply scores wherever they are desired. You may then subract 2 from any score to add 1 to any requisite ability score (Str for fights, Int for wazards, etc).

This was what I used to do myself, with the added condition of being able to re-roll 1's. It made for more powerful characters, but I always felt like adventurers should be a little above average. It really did not affect my campaign, as my RL campaign was one in which danger and death could spring up at any time.

Well, the reason our group went to the point system is b/c they were not being honest with their rolls, and we were getting scores with nothing below 15. Thankfully now, I have some more honest players.

That sucks. I dislike players who only care about stats and "winning" the game. The fun part of D&D is not "winning" but playing the game. I enjoy it when my character has to go through difficulties and suffers setback during adventuring. It makes the whole experience more realistic and satisfying.

My favorite method for rolling is and will always be -

4d6, drop lowest - straight down. You get 1 reroll, and 1 swap.

That way, you can still get some low scores, and you generally can still be whatever you want and mighty competent at that - but you have to make some sacrifices. Usually works out really well, and provides interesting stats to roleplay (as in my current game where we have guy with a wisdom of 6)

Yeah I know how having a low stat goes, in one game I had a wisdom of 6, but I made up for it with one heck of a high constitution; around 18.

Hmm... I'll dig out the last character I played a couple of months back

Str - 6
Dex - 8
Con - 6
Int - 13
Wis - 8
Cha - 9

As you can see, nothing to look at, but a great character to play with what I made of her. She was emotionally bland, but very cunning in her ways amd even managed to take over leading the party with her ideas (a little suggestion in the real leaders ear here and there) without anyone really noticing. Well, she did have the highest intelligence score in the party.

She is also the only one of her group that survived the adventure (the party split in two and each group alternated in play every half hour or so).

She is a character I will play again in the future should I get the chance. Having someone like her who managed to raise an entire village and poison the wells without anyonerealising it was her deserves to come back, at least as a villain in one of my own games.

Quite impressive. That proves you don't need ability scores of "yes" to be a powerful character.

Snake wrote:Well, the reason our group went to the point system is b/c they were not being honest with their rolls, and we were getting scores with nothing below 15. Thankfully now, I have some more honest players.

Really? Who was cheating (I'm in Snake's play group, and I don't recall who it was). I know people sometimes reroll all their stats if they don't like the ones they had (which I'm not sure if that's allowed or not).
The problem is the dice rolling system we use is too generous. It allows rerolls of not only 1's but 2's as well. So the absolute lowest you can get (which never happens) is a 9. Generally people don't have anything less than a 14. Which does lead me to wonder if all the rolls are 100% honest, but I've never actually caught anyone cheating.


On the original topic, I'm not much fan of the point buy system. I think 25 or even 26 points results in stats that are too low. I like Wiccy's roll system, and next time I start a campaign I will either use that or go with a higher point buy, either 30 or 32.

I prefer the 4d6 drop the lowest also. But sometimes when I am letting players gen for a harder game I will let them use 4d6 drop the lowest then if its under 13 reroll. This makes powerful players, but the monsters get the same treatment (Why give the player all the help)

I also agree that point buy works, but it depends on the allocation we recently had a game with 20 pts to spend that was rather *not doing that again* Nasty

But again my PC's are generated by the players and checked first. It can throw some interesting spanners in the works like an evil mage, 4 rangers and a Paladin!

JinnTolser wrote:

Snake wrote:Well, the reason our group went to the point system is b/c they were not being honest with their rolls, and we were getting scores with nothing below 15. Thankfully now, I have some more honest players.

I know people sometimes reroll all their stats if they don't like the ones they had (which I'm not sure if that's allowed or not).
The problem is the dice rolling system we use is too generous. It allows rerolls of not only 1's but 2's as well.

Thats it, they would keep re-rolling their stats until they got a number that they were satisfied with. Just look at the stats in your current game. Do you think everyone got the stats they did fairly? I don't. And since that was my first game ever, I wasn't sure what I should do to get stats so I redid my stats recently with more realistic scores. But now that I am a vampire, it doesn't matter as much.

Snake wrote:Well, the reason our group went to the point system is b/c they were not being honest with their rolls, and we were getting scores with nothing below 15.

Not knowing your players, I cannot speculate on how honest they are or not. However, it does seem very unlikely that the entire group would have all of their scores above 15. With the probability being rather low that a group of people would all roll that high, I would be skeptical bout them being honest with their rolls.

Wiccy of the Fraternity wrote:I am still a fan of the method I have always used. Roll 4d6, drop the lowest, repeat this 5 more times. Apply scores wherever they are desired.

I am a big fan of this method as well, and my groups have been using it without many troubles for over fifteen tears. Admittedly, you'll sometime get a rather weak character from a bad set of dice rolling, but we've seldom had a problem with characters beeing too weak or too power from using this method.

I'm not a big fan of the point system, although it does allow for some more versatility. I've had a couple of groups that preferred to use a 30 point pool to add to base ability scores of 8 (1 point = 1 point of increase). A character could theoretically have three attributes of 18, but the other three would be only 8.

I've also used a default set of scores (e.g. 18, 16, 14, 14, 12, and 10), which could be placed in any ability the player wants. It is a good mix of average and above average scores, but the method doesn't really provide a lot of variety or chance. The benefit of this method is that it has proven helpful when a new character needs to be quickly created to replace an old one.

We use another method in our campaign, which most players loved: it enhances original characters: roll 4d6 for each ability score, leaving out the lowest. Then you have a re-roll and a swapping.
In general it remains playable and creates some funny things like a strong noble or a dexterous cleric, which create quite interesting variations from the classic stereotypes.