What have you done with canon domains?

[mistshadow2k4]

Ok, I started the thread on canon darklords, but what about their domains? For starters I use Andrew Wyatt's Ricoba to replace Richemulot. I don't use his Old Southern US versionof Arkandale, however; I'd already worked on Arkan culture and combining it with the Old SOuth wouldn't work (there are marked differences between my Arkandale and the Verbrek in the gazatters too). Perhaps I'll write that up for QtR 14, if anyone is interested. I'll say this much though: the Wolf God wasn't evil IMC.

Another one I had to change was Har'Akir. It was apparently written by someone who didn't know that much about ancient Egypt and didn't understand the importance of the Nile. There's no way even a small number of people could've carved out a village in the desert there without the river. The river wasn't just a source of water, it was a source of silt. Silt enriched the soil and made it fertile. (Yes, this would have serious agricultural implications for the Dark Sun world too; the city-states should literally be importing silt from the Silt Sea for farming.) The silt was brought up onto the land each spring when the Nile flooded. Agriculture in ancient Egypt would've been impossible without the silt from the Nile -- which is the source of the Egyptians' own name for their land, variously spelled as Qam, Khem, Kem, etc,. meaning "black".

Thus, I had to make the Muhar River go through Har'Akir. More agriculture needed more people to farm it, so I nearly tripled the population of the domain as well, making Muhar a city with small farming hamlets along the river (but not too close to it, of course). I also changed the name of the darklord to a real Egyptian name, Ankhefenra, and removed the reference to ancient Akiri coins -- believe it or not, the ancient Egyptians didn't use a system or currency, only barter. Hard to imagine an advanced civilization entirely reliant on barter for day-to-day trade, but they did it for centuries.

Finally, I wanted Har'Akir to be seem as ancient and mysterious to Corelanders as Egypt is to us, so I had it that an unknown author published a book on Har'Akir in Darkon in the year 632, Mysteries of the Black Land. This book told the people of the Core about the myths, legends and culture of the Akiri dating back to whatever world they originally came from. Mysteries of the Black Land, I decided, had captured the imagination and wonder of the people on the Core, and translations of the book were a standard part of an aristocrat's education in most domains, inluding Dementlieu, Borca and others. Thus, Har'Akir rose from a backwater little domain with a mummy to something more like Egypt and just as exotic and magical to people living on the Core. But some of this was necessary, as the living situation described in the canon books is actually impossible if the land is supposed to actually be like ancietn Egypt.

[Undead Cabbage]

An idea I have been wrestling with is to re-arrange the core into clusters that cause the dread realms to have the same lay out as the real world. I don't know if it would work, but it would certainly be neat to try.

I'm thinking along the lines of something like this:

Verbrek and Valachan are a separate cluster (North and South America). Souragne is an Island in proximity to this cluster.

Forlorn, Tepest, Keening, Mordent, Staunton Bluffs, Paridon (with Timor under it), Avonleigh, and possibly Nidala are a cluster (British Isles). Mordent still keeps its trade and affairs with Dementlieu via ship (as well I would add that Paridon plays a larger role in Dementlieuese politics). I don't have a clue how the shadow rift would fit into this.

Dementlieu, Richmelot, Lamordia, Falkovnia, Borca, Invidia, Barovia, Nova Vaasa, Kartakass, and Vorostokov are a cluster (Europe+Western Asia). Hazlan is still connected to Nova Vaasa, but is really better considered part of the next cluster. Blaustein, Odiare and Dominia are islands near this cluster.

Hazlan and the Amber Wastes make a cluster (Middle East).

I don't have a clue what to make of Darkon and Sithicus. Perhaps there could be a separate cluster attached with Vechor, although really I don't see this working.

Essentially, I try and bring out the real world influences for each realm.

I'm contimplating basing Vaasan more off of Spanish than Danish. Nova Vaasa's religion, plains, horses, class divide, insular people, and Authoritarian nature first reminded me of dark-age spain. This works in that the supposed South America (Valachan) speaks the language of the supposed Spain (Nova Vaasa). This interpretation would definately not be for everyone, and it certainly is only because my campaigns tend to be very allegorical.

[mistshadow2k4]

Actually, Undead Cabbage, I did something like that when the red box came out detailing the effects of the Grand Conjunction. Instead of just moving a couple of domains around, I re-arranged a bunch of them to suit me. Now that my group is getting ready to play Ravenloft again -- none of us old-timers liked 3E's combat rules, so I basically had to develop my own system and that took some time, but that's another story -- I'm not sure what to do with a lot of the domains in the netbooks I've downloaded. A bunch of them can remain as islands of terror, but it seems to me that several belong on the Core as they're culturally related to domains there and I like them well enough that I want to use them. I'm beginning to think I may have to split the Core up into two continents.

[Jasper]

I've tweeked the look of the shadow rift to better suit my campaigns. Instead of a vast 'hole' in the core the rift is a huge redwood forest shrouded in a constant fog bank. Jutting up from the center is Keening in a homage to the night on Bauld Mountain scene from Fantasia with the spirtis of the dead shadow fey climbing up the sides.

[Gemathustra]

I'm contimplating basing Vaasan more off of Spanish than Danish. Nova Vaasa's religion, plains, horses, class divide, insular people, and Authoritarian nature first reminded me of dark-age spain. This works in that the supposed South America (Valachan) speaks the language of the supposed Spain (Nova Vaasa). This interpretation would definately not be for everyone, and it certainly is only because my campaigns tend to be very allegorical.

Um, technically speaking, "Dark-Ages Spain" was under the Umayyid Dynasty, and was a fountain of culture and openness that was eventually destroyed during the Reconquest of Spain by Aragon and Castille.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I'd quite enjoyed the description of Daglan in FoG -- a land which, if you think about it, was the first domain to be given a genuinely detailed coverage in a game-product -- and was rather miffed that it'd no sooner appeared than it went "poof!" at the end of that module. I therefore let it split off from the Core instead of vanishing altogether, and it persisted as an Island under Nadaga's darklordship up until the Great Upheaval, at which point it fused with G'Henna to become a sixth Cluster (the Withered Expanse). Those two domains actually complement each other quite well, as they share themes of desolate wastelands, morbid religious fanaticism, and widespread deprivation and ignorance. Plus, Yagno's a lot more fun to play when he's got a rival death-cult to rave against....

Bluetspur and the Nightmare Lands are just too weird by half, so those lands were never a part of the Core IMC. All historical events linking their pasts to adjcent domains, like the mass Thaani exodus to Barovia, happened via the Mists, not overland.

[Jakob]

The only major change I made is making the Core a bit more large.
Dementlieu, focus of my campaign, was about as big as Lombardia (the region of Italy where I live), and Darkon (focus of my NEXT campaign) much, much bigger.
Thankfully, the Core has no fixed size.

In Dementlieu, I made halflings take the role of Jews in the XVI century in Europe. They live in ghettos, are jewelers and bankers, are extremely religious (they are devoted Ezrans) and are scapegoats for anything bad that happens in their city (or even in other cities).
Imagine the pleasure of two of my players, who played halfling fighters... Many knees were broken while saving their community from a pogrom.

[mistshadow2k4]

That's a great idea, Rotipher! I decided to keep G'Henna separated fromt he Core as it enhanced the tone of isolation and desperation for food, but Daglan fits with fine. I think I'll do that too.

[Nathan of the FoS]

I've changed lots of things, most of which I've mentioned before--I've talked about much of this elsewhere, so this may not be of interest to all readers.

Let's see. Everything is much bigger, both physically and in terms of population--cities like Martira Bay, Lekar, and Port-a-Lucine are home to 80,000-120,00 people.

Science and magic are not "at odds" with each other; they are, practically speaking, indistinguishable, with only two important exceptions (one based on the darklord's curse, one on the prevailing culture).

Pretty much every domain is accessible to the rest of Ravenloft by non-Mist means.

The Core appears more or less as it does now, with the following exceptions/additions: Sithicus does not exist; Saarkaath (BoSacrifices) lies south of Hazlan, and Sanguinia lies north of Darkon, with Vorostokov north of that. Tepest is ruled by Elena Faith-Hold, and there is no Shadow Rift; the center of the Core is dominated by the Hundred-League Wood, which is a great forest twisted by Gwydion's reality wrinkle. Lamordia and Sanguinia are nominally part of Darkon, and Dementlieu and Mordent form one political unit (Mordent is in the north, Dementlieu in the south); similarly, Forlorn is ruled (in theory) by Strahd. The Wolfwood dominates the south-central Core; there are a few towns worthy of the name, but no central ruler since the death of Kaspar Bakholis. Bandit captains--most notably Bakholis' son Yan, his murderess Gabrielle Aderre, and her son Malocchio--struggle for position. (Yan Bakholis rules "Verbrek", Gabrielle rules Invidia.)

If you goes far enough southeast in the Nocturnal Sea you'll reach Saragoss, with Sri Raji and the Wildlands beyond that, then a mountain range, and the domains of the Amber Waste beyond that.

Vechor lies with G'Henna and Daglan in the northeast.

Going west over the Sea of Sorrows one will arrive at the cluster composed of Arkandale (the "deep South" Andrew Wyatt version) and Nueva Aragona (USS 2001), with Mictlan (BoS 2000) and Cumbre de Oro (BoSacrifices) inland of Nueva Aragona.

Ummm...there was other stuff, too, but I can't remember it all at present.

What's that about cannons?...

[Undead Cabbage]

Um, technically speaking, "Dark-Ages Spain" was under the Umayyid Dynasty, and was a fountain of culture and openness that was eventually destroyed during the Reconquest of Spain by Aragon and Castille.

Dark Ages spain was perhaps not the best term for it. What I was thinking was more along the lines of the time of the Inquisition. Of course, none of this has gone into practice yet, and its still a sketchy idea at best.

Another great thing about the Ravenloft Campaign setting: it has no set size. If you want to keep its population small for a very insular feel, you can go right ahead. If you wish to make it bigger for more urban campaigns, nothing is stopping you.

The Core appears more or less as it does now, with the following exceptions/additions: Sithicus does not exist; Saarkaath (BoSacrifices) lies south of Hazlan, and Sanguinia lies north of Darkon, with Vorostokov north of that. Tepest is ruled by Elena Faith-Hold, and there is no Shadow Rift; the center of the Core is dominated by the Hundred-League Wood, which is a great forest twisted by Gwydion's reality wrinkle. Lamordia and Sanguinia are nominally part of Darkon, and Dementlieu and Mordent form one political unit (Mordent is in the north, Dementlieu in the south); similarly, Forlorn is ruled in theory, by Strahd. The Wolfwood dominates the south-central Core; there are a few towns worthy of the name, but no central ruler since the death of Kaspar Bakholis. Bandit captains--most notably Bakholis' son Yan, his murderess Gabrielle Aderre, and her son Malocchio--struggle for position. (Yan Bakholis rules "Verbrek", Gabrielle rules Invidia.)

I'm sort of with you Nathan in that Sithicus does seem kind of just...there. I don't know whether it is because I just never got Sithicus, but it doesn't feel right for the setting, and I don't know why. Could it possibly be because of the loss of Soth? Perhaps the setting has evolved past the realms use?

I like the idea of Elena Faith-Hold owning Tepest. I've always wondered why the shadowlands were not directly connected with Tepest? The two places seem like peas-in-a-pod. It also sounds like in your interpretation you're going for the whole Darkon=Russia, very cool .

[mistshadow2k4]

Everything is much bigger, both physically and in terms of population--cities like Martira Bay, Lekar, and Port-a-Lucine are home to 80,000-120,00 people.

Good idea. The population as listed in the books is often barely enough to sustain itself. And then when they get to the modules, they have a crime syndicate operating in a town with a population of barely 1000? I don't think so.

Pretty much every domain is accessible to the rest of Ravenloft by non-Mist means.

That's interesting. How so? I've been trying to make trade easier in most domains, as the mistways still leave many domains practically inaccesible.

Another thing I did was add some cultural color to Darkon. Divided by north and south respectively, I have it being psuedo-Scandinvaian and pseudo-Celtic. I say "pseudo" because it's more like some touches from those cultures rather than being a great deal like them.

Oh, and I'm sorry to contradict whoever first wrote that, but Tepest is not Irish, it's definitely English. Goblins aren't in Irish folklore, and an Irishman would've thought D&D's Tolkienesque elves were sidh instead of "night-creatures"; the hags of Irish legend were more like forces of nature, such as the Cailleach Bheur, whose coming brought winter. The English had goblins -- not that it really matters, as D&D's goblins bear no resemblance to folkloric goblins -- and had man-eating hags like Black Annis and Jenny Greenteeth. Elves in English folklore were a little people, like in the "The Shoemaker and the Elves", but often not so benevolent.

That is, really, the major difference between my Ravenloft and the canon version; I've returned many of the D&D tropes to their folkloric roots. That threw my players for a loop at first, but when they got used to it they admitted they liked it better, because the originals in folklore were more mysterious and supernatural -- scarier. And who needs humanoid hordes when you can use humans in their place? Back in the 90s I had to buy a couple of books to do the research I needed but now you can find virtually everything you need to know about folkloric critters online.

Tepest is larger IMC, and it can be divided into east (medieval English) and west (medieval Scottish). The Inquisition (along with the shadow fey) I moved to Nidala, which I shrank and made part of the Core. In Tepest I have religious conflict brewing between the priesthood and the witches; even though they follow the same Celtic gods, each regards the other as doing so all wrong. The priests also spread rumors that the witches don't follow the gods at all, but are servants of the Old One (a great soul-devouring demon from the dawn of time in Tepestani mythology).

There's more, but that's enough for now.

[Ail]

I'm contimplating basing Vaasan more off of Spanish than Danish. Nova Vaasa's religion, plains, horses, class divide, insular people, and Authoritarian nature first reminded me of dark-age spain. This works in that the supposed South America (Valachan) speaks the language of the supposed Spain (Nova Vaasa). This interpretation would definately not be for everyone, and it certainly is only because my campaigns tend to be very allegorical.

Um, technically speaking, "Dark-Ages Spain" was under the Umayyid Dynasty, and was a fountain of culture and openness that was eventually destroyed during the Reconquest of Spain by Aragon and Castille.

Sorry for this plug, but Portugal too was an independent nation at the time of the Reconquista and had its own Reconquista. They started from the same movement with the Battle of Covadonga in 722 (the invasion had been in 711, so this was quick ).
In the 11th century, there were the christian kingdoms of Castilla, Navarra, Aragon and Leon, but Leon was annexed by Castilla. In 1065, Fernando I was king of Leon-Asturias, Castilla and new lands he had conquered under the name of Galiza. They were split by his sons but ater some inner fights, one of them, Afonso VI, brought them all together.
This is the point where we being studying the history of Portugal in school. Afonso VI calls for help from beyond the Pyrenees and two knights come help him: Raimundo and Henrique. Raimundo is rewarded with the kingdom of Galiza and Henrique with the province of Portucale which is part of the kingdom of Galiza. Henrique's son, Afonso Henriques, rebels against the Galician king and becomes independent in 1143 (only recognized by the Pope in 1179) and is first king of Portugal. From then on, Galiza no longer has a border with muslim kingdoms, so the Reconquista is continued by the independent kingdoms of Portugal, Castilla, Aragon and by the Counts of Barcelona (I guess this has geographically something to do with Navarra, which was near the Pyrenees). It seems Castilla retained influence over all other kingdoms except Portugal.
All these movements expanded southwards and prevented each other from expanding sidewise (east / west).
Portuguese Reconquest ended in 1249 with the last conquest in the Algarve. The Spanish Reconquest ended in 1492 (funny dates, same digits) by the destruction of the Kingdom of Granada in the same year, to the best of my knowledge, that Castilla unified or annexed (either way, brought under its influence) Aragon and Navarra (one of them by marriage, but others will know Spanish history better than me) and I guess Leon was already definitely not an independent kingdom. It is also the year Columbus reached the Americas (to put this in perspective).
Since then, there have been only two independent countries in the Peninsula, Portugal and Spain.

Ail

[Ail]

Oh, another thing. That culture was not necessarily destroyed. Much of the success of Portugal in the 15th and 16th centuries may be ascribed to the mathematical and scientific competence the moors had left among us. And even though the arabian rulers were indeed defeated and expelled, the moor populations were allowed to remain and share their culture. From this intermingling came many good things to us, although that influence must surely have been greater in Spain, I bet.

Ail

[Gemathustra]

I wouldn't know: all I've read is that two of the first things that King Ferdinand's forces did after negotiating for the last Caliph's abandonment of Granada was to burn the libraries of Granada, and begin converting the city's inhabitants to Christianity by sword-point.

[Manofevil]

They were split by his sons but ater some inner fights, one of them, Afonso VI, brought them all together.

Off topic but is this Afonso the one made famous in the movie 'El Cid' w/ charlton Heston?