Penalties for The Caress?

[Gwenfloor]

One of my players, Dromir the Necromancer, sees the drawback for the Caress, stage one of failed powers check, not as frustrating as the bonus is beneficial. You can either a bonus to an attack, skill, ability, saving throw, or whatnot, for a small cosmetic change. It did not say how one's cosmetic changes would affect an Outcast Rating. He also has enough experience to realize that those who continue down the path of depravity almost always get eternally condemned in a form of poetic justice for one's sins. Thus, he is going to avoid more Powers Checks when he can. He got a +2 to Intelligence, but his eyes become coal black and burn red whenever he casts a spell. How would this affect his Outcast Rating and social interaction, plus others who notice it?

[Luke Fleeman]

One of my players, Dromir the Necromancer, sees the drawback for the Caress, stage one of failed powers check, not as frustrating as the bonus is beneficial.

Worth mentioning: That's on purpose. The first steps are a little bit of an enticement. It is mostly an effect to tempt you to greater evil activity. You should let him like it, because it will be a good way to take him down that path.

That being said, I don't think it would affect his outcast rating unless someone saw him casts spells. And if he is a necromancer, he probably is not pleasing people during spellcasting anyways.

[Lord_Pruitt]

Well, thats just it - its to be tempting, to lure people down the path of depravity. From a metagame perspective, the bonus does outweight the penalties. But, from an in-character perspective - what kind of stain does that leave on the soul? And, can the PC stop from advancing further down that dark road? Ever since the original black box, I've always considered the powers checks to be a good way to toy with PCs, and to watch them tread down the path of good intentions, only to end up damned for eternity. And sometimes it even makes for a good plot twist.

[Hallow]

Well, thats just it - its to be tempting, to lure people down the path of depravity. From a metagame perspective, the bonus does outweight the penalties. But, from an in-character perspective - what kind of stain does that leave on the soul? And, can the PC stop from advancing further down that dark road? Ever since the original black box, I've always considered the powers checks to be a good way to toy with PCs, and to watch them tread down the path of good intentions, only to end up damned for eternity. And sometimes it even makes for a good plot twist.

I find it hard to belive that a Necromancer would only Fail one powers check in his entire career. Every necro spell is like
*Powers check* *Powers check* * cure light wounds* Powers check* *Milk and cookies break*

[Gwenfloor]

He is not as magic-focused as most Arcane Casters are. He is also good at swinging a Scythe and social skills.

[Luke Fleeman]

Fair enough- but make sure you lower the boom if he tries to go necro-crazy on a bunch of people for no good reason except power and treasure.

[alhoon]

Fair enough- but make sure you lower the boom if he tries to go necro-crazy on a bunch of people for no good reason except power and treasure.

I respectfully disagree with that... if his alignment is evil.

I cannot think of even a neutral character justifying a completely unprovoked attack (not the Powers check one, the "you spilled my drink!" BOOM! thing).

Note however that there are other ways to "punish" evil acts than powers checks. If he is low level and kills people = the authorities. If he is med level+ then rumors of the "evil necromancer" would bring monster hunters and even treasure hunting monsters against him. Also Strahd for example doesn't take kindly to people killing his sheep... I mean his people.

[Pariah]

Ever since the original black box, I've always considered the powers checks to be a good way to toy with PCs, and to watch them tread down the path of good intentions, only to end up damned for eternity. And sometimes it even makes for a good plot twist.

Does it ever make for good plot twists!

Also, it sounds like he's metagaming his character a bit much there...Yes, the caress nets him a bonus 2 Intelligence for awesome coal black eyes, but does his character want to stop at that? Sure, the players knows damn well that he may be damned for all eternity (and taken away from him for a new character...), but why would the character want to stop gaining more and more power? Does the character know of the increased sacrifices as they go further and further down the road?

I'd feel ok with it if he was RESISTING going down the road...but for him to just stay at the caress level for the good bonus without downsides...it just feels dirty. I'd make sure to set up traps for him to bait him into continuing down the road of depravity.

[alhoon]

There are more issues on that Pariah.

Would you really want to have coal black eyes? In a world that people know that bad guys sometimes get strange alterations as a punishment for their actions? Where monsters lurk in the shadows and you may well be judged as one of them?

Everyone I know without exception is sane/narcisist enough to not want to have completely black eyes, or stark white hair in his 20s.

[Sorti]

Simple solution: don't tell him how power checks work. Yeah, I know, he already red the rules, but tell him you've changed them to make them more beautiful and because you thought they could be abused. And no, you're not gonna tell him how they work now, 'cause this make things more mysterious. Hey, you're meddling with the Dark Powers, there's no table that can pin down that!

Also, try to tempt him into committing more evil acts. If he resists every time, assume his character "redeemed" himself, and remove the Caress (the rules allow this, and it does make sense).

Should he try to be caressed again, this time it's not a +2 Int but a +2 Cha, and find a more sinister drawback, like "you cannot help but try to bluff people in believe they are worth nothing and spread depression. Roleplay it!".
Just my 2 bits

[Gwenfloor]

Great ideas, Sorti! I will plan on using them in my next gaming session!

[Pariah]

There are more issues on that Pariah.

Would you really want to have coal black eyes? In a world that people know that bad guys sometimes get strange alterations as a punishment for their actions? Where monsters lurk in the shadows and you may well be judged as one of them?

Everyone I know without exception is sane/narcisist enough to not want to have completely black eyes, or stark white hair in his 20s.

But why should he care? Siegfried, my character who walked down the path, certainly didn't. Though he was a druid and didn't spend much time in the town anyway...it's still not much of a detriment if your party is still willing to stick with you when civilization isn't. It even puts them into a tricky situation where they have to decieve the citizens while they purchase <whatever> for the character banned from the city. Do they tell the people they're still hanging out with the 9 foot furry monster? Does every citizen care about the monster or were there some sympathesizers?

Just as the players don't know about the Path to Darkness...your everyday citizen just has to go by what he's heard, and if he's seen the guy do things for good he could just pass off the charcoal eyes or whatnot as a curse.

[Luke Fleeman]

Playing on Sorti's great ideas, you coudl also add extra effects to the caress. Of course he thinks it is just the coal eyes, but he also appears different ot other people, or has a smell he can't detect, or something.

[alhoon]

But why should he care?

...

Just as the players don't know about the Path to Darkness...your everyday citizen just has to go by what he's heard, and if he's seen the guy do things for good he could just pass off the charcoal eyes or whatnot as a curse.

Well Ravenloftians are xenophobic. And would you really don't care if you had charcoal black eyes? Wouldn't you feel... well like you're a freak?

As for the everyday citizen, how would you as a person react to a person sitting next to you in the bus that has completely black eyes? Even if you have heard he has helped the town. Would you really appreciate his efforts as much as if he was normal? Not your character, you as a person.
Wouldn't you feel unseasy if that freak was near you? If you were alone with him? Yes, perhaps he is a good, unlucky guy. Perhaps he is a tragic hero that some witch or fay cursed him for a heroic act... but he is still spooky.

Now remove your education and modern beliefs.
Now add an inherent fear about strangers and non-humans.

[Pariah]

Well Ravenloftians are xenophobic. And would you really don't care if you had charcoal black eyes? Wouldn't you feel... well like you're a freak?

As for the everyday citizen, how would you as a person react to a person sitting next to you in the bus that has completely black eyes? Even if you have heard he has helped the town. Would you really appreciate his efforts as much as if he was normal? Not your character, you as a person.
Wouldn't you feel unseasy if that freak was near you? If you were alone with him? Yes, perhaps he is a good, unlucky guy. Perhaps he is a tragic hero that some witch or fay cursed him for a heroic act... but he is still spooky.

Now remove your education and modern beliefs.
Now add an inherent fear about strangers and non-humans.

I would certainly feel uneasy around a person with black eyes, very much so. Though it's impossible for me to fully remove myself from education and modern beliefs and think like a Mordentish native...I'd be able to set aside a person's differences if he's done something beneficial for me.

People may think he is a bad guy, a freak, and be uneasy around him...but those aren't reasons to abhor the idea of having black eyes or stark white hair. Most people who walk down the path stand out enough as it is, and these physical changes won't do much to a person's reputation if he already has undead minions or has torn a man's rib cage open with his bare hands.

Once again, my character didn't care because he had more important things to worry about than plebian paranoia. If I myself could potentially walk down the path of darkness as well, then I'd probably be worried more about where my new found powers are coming from...that is if I wasn't too infatuated with them and gaining even more power. By no means am I an exemplary character, and if I could find a path to accumulate lots of power in a short period of time without any forseeable consequences...then I'd probably take it. Who wouldn't?