Café de Nuit

Do any of the sources actually say what Gundar or Bakholis did to become darklords? If not, what explanations have people come up with?

I don't recall any, but back in the early days just about anyone and his dog could be a darklord if they stepped into the mists.

If that were so, then I could see there being far more than just 50-100 domains. If all it takes is a brutal murder, then there would be hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of domains.
I could, however, see Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahlmer, Emperor Hirohito, and other mass killers for power and selfish desires could be Darklords in their own right. I wonder if a Modern Masque of the Red Death would be feasible?

Bakholis became darklord of Invidia after being cursed by a peasant girl named Marta. He was already a pretty brutal warlord, and he came to Marta's village to kidnap her for his own pleasure. Her lover and family resisted, killing one of Bakholis' soldiers, and he had the entire village crucified in retaliation. Her lover, Karlus, managed to escape with her, but eventually they were both captured and brought before Bakholis. Karlus was slowly lowered into a pit with starving, rabid wolves, while Marta was gang-raped by Bakholis and his soldiers. Finally, after Karlus was torn apart and Bakholis promised the same fate to the girl, Marta cursed him with her dying breath. That night, the Mists descended on Invidia. A month later, Bakholis transformed into a werewolf and slaughtered everyone in his castle, including his servants and his wife and children.

As far as Gundar goes, I have no idea. XD

Jeremy Puckett (Hida Jiremi)

Gundar was said to be a vampire far older than Strahd, and yet, was far weaker. He fought with Strahd after having been stranded in Barovia one night, and then he fled back into the mists, whereupon Gundarak formed.

Gemathustra wrote:Gundar was said to be a vampire far older than Strahd, and yet, was far weaker.

Remember that vampires didn't grow more powerful with age, under the AD&D rules, until VRGtV was published. Nor do vampires in the current system gain power with age, under the core rules of 3E/3.5. Plenty of centuries-old vampires in non-Ravenloft products have only the base MM abilities of the template, not the enhanced abilities provided by longevity to the Ravenloft setting's vampires.

A logical deduction is that vampires only gain power with age if they age in Ravenloft -- a plane where necromantic forces in general, and the powers of undead in particular, are much stronger than on the Material Plane -- rather than on other planes. So Gundar could well have existed as a vampire for centuries on the Material Plane, in whatever world he came from, before arriving in Ravenloft ... still with only a fledgeling vampire's statistics, hence weaker than Strahd.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:

Gemathustra wrote:Gundar was said to be a vampire far older than Strahd, and yet, was far weaker.

Remember that vampires didn't grow more powerful with age, under the AD&D rules, until VRGtV was published.

Not true... the original vampire aging table was in the Black Box.

But yes, I don't think it's ever been established whether you have to age in the demiplane to get the powers or not.

Well, the Black Box said that he was weaker-willed than Strahd.

Yes, this was before the whole stats-inflation deal came along with VRGtV, and which was then carried over for vanilla D&D in 3rd edition so every single vampire had amazingly high abilities.

I think there was some age progression in Black Box. In the Guide, however, it introduced various salient abilities that made it even more deadly. Lyssa von Zarovich, who can drain five energy levels with a touch, is one example of munchkinism gone amok.

I suppose it's possible that Gundar only had a weaker "Will save" than Strahd did

gonzoron wrote:But yes, I don't think it's ever been established whether you have to age in the demiplane to get the powers or not.

In VRGtV there was at least a strong suggestion that the aging rules worked in all realms, BUT that this was undermined by a) the shorter life expectancy of the vampire outside of RL, and b) the increasing likelihood of an older vampire getting sucked into RL. The end result was that vamps outside RL rarely enjoyed their aging abilities.