The why of Ravenloft

[Reginald de Curry]

I see the Dark Powers as a bunch of gamers sitting around a table, rolling dice, eating all of my pizza without chipping in oh, wait! You meant as a CAMPAIGN definition, didn't you....

[frandelgearslip]

I see the Dark Powers as evil Gods and other powerfull Beings who as a whole use Ravenloft as a plaything.

It as, as Wiccy says, a twisted freakshow. Put on by, and for the amuesment of the those who are truely genius and truely evil.

I agree. Thats pretty much what I was thinking about when I voted other

[Ivana_Boritsi]

I don't see the Dark Powers as evil.

:shrug:

But maybe that's me. Whatever floats your boat.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

Point taken. The Dark Powers may deal with evil, but it is never they who actually commit evil. The evil condition of Ravenloft is the sole fault of the Darklords and the other vile denisens of the demiplane. If the mists are tainted with evil, then it was left there by those who have passed through them.

[jamieraleigh]

I have to disagree with the thought that the Dark Powers don't do evil. Just look at the leader of Carnival. They've effectively imprisoned her and made her the lord of a pocket domain, yet she is definitely not evil.

Just my take. If the Dark Powers were good, or even neutral, I don't think that they would punish the good with the bad.

[Ivana_Boritsi]

But then why are the bad punished -more- than the good?

Being a Darklord really, really sucks. Like bad.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

Actually, I think Ishold (is that her name?) is a very unique example of how tha Dark powers are not necessarily evil.

Isholde entered the Dread Realms in pursuit of the Gentleman Caller. Her mission is to destroy him, and to accomplish that mission she delved into the depths of the demiplane of dread [I love D words ]. Do you really think that she would leave Ravenloft without slaying her nemesis?
I don't either.
So, in reality, Ishold is imprisoned, not by the Dark Powers, but by her own sense of duty. Nicely gothic, that.

Now, consider that the GC is a very evil creature out to cause chaos and pain and perhaps even worse. By allowing Ishold to even enter the mists, the Dark Powers have allowed to GC to be hounded by a very lethal opponent.
As well, remember that the people of the Carnival were about to be slaughtered/tortured/enslaved by the Falcovnians. Ishold is responsible for saving them. As well, her carnival has been a refuge for the misfits, miscreants and mutants of Ravenloft [I also like M words ]. So, Isholds arival has given many miserable creatures a home; albiet a freaky one.

So, does this prove that the Dark Powers are good? No. Clearly they allow evil to occur.
Does it then prove that the DPs are evil? I'd say No again.
The Ishold incident shows the balance that exists in the actions of the Dark Powers. They have allowed evil and fostered goodness simultaneously.

[Jester of the FoS]

Never done anything with them in my Campaign. I prefer some mysteries to remain that, and revealing it definitively would probably lead to many contradictions and problems. But if I did it might be this:
The Dark Powers are trying to distill the purest good and make the noblest heroes.

Simply put the Dark Powers are not evil, nor is it about the villains, Darklords or anything else. All that is simply a means to an end. It?s all about the heroes.
Not the mightiest or strongest or with the most magic. The ones who have stood up against overwhelming odds against unstoppable foes and temptation and still triumphed, albeit on a small scale.

Anyone can be a hero in the Forgotten Realms, and many are heroes in Dragonlance. All you just need is a good sword and some luck and hope that everyone looks away when you're really pissed off. So many really aren?t heroes but greedy thugs looking for treasure and glory. Plus there are Gods everywhere that tell you which is the right course of action if you get stuck and magic to hell deduce evil from good. And when the evil is so blatant and wrong, attempting to take over the world or kill millions, the right course of action is obvious and clear. And even heroic deeds are lessened when the possible consequences of failure, death, are easily avoided or negated by one resurrection spell.
But in a world where you have no back-up, when the correct course of action is obscured and have to struggle then those who rise to the challenge are truly special. And in Ravenloft there is someone always watching when you stumble and make mistakes... then those who remain good are really special. There is always the temptation to cross the blurry line, a carrot dangled to lead you further astray.
Who knows how good Elminster really is. He?s been around for centuries and could have done some awful stuff in that past that people have just forgotten about. He could have made some mistakes and moved on, perhaps never really atoning for them. He?s not a Paladin, he didn?t have to.

Ravenloft is the creation of the Dark Powers to filter out the unworthy, the easily corruptible and tempted to get the true pure souls. The heroes that will not falter, will not give up, will sacrifice all just to attempt to make the world a better place despite knowing how impossible the task is.

[The Stray]

The Dark Powers are trying to distill the purest good and make the noblest heroes.

Curiously enough, IMC, that's exactly what the Dark Powers are trying to do...but for entirely different reasons.

IMC, the DP actaully ARE evil. But they weren't always so. Once upon a time, they were the creators of the universe and it's denizens. They ruled as the gods they were for countless eons...but eventually, they began to succumb to powerful temptations, the seven deadly sins as it were, though I use a slightly different list. Seven Sins for Seven Creators. Each of them indulged in their chosen vice to the point where it consumed them, twisting and warping them into demonic creatures. They became Demon Lords instead of Creator Gods, and their reign was one of unending horrors as they played with their creation. But nine powerful mortal heroes arose to challenge their power. Caught completely unprepared, the Seven were cast from the Material plane and banished to the dark corners of the multiverse. Essentially, they were blindsided.

Now, the Demon Lords were, naturally enough, quite put out by this, and they began to wonder just how the heck such powerful heores of light could have ever come about, given their absolute control over creation. So while they plotted against the Nine Heroes, who had replaced them as gods to the mortal races, they also decided that they needed to study this heroism thing and find out just how it worked, so that once they toppled the foolish upstarts they wouldn't have to worry about being overthrown again.

Enter the Mists. The Demons yanked pieces of Creation to build their labratory, and started designing it to encourage monsters of darkness to flourish, granting them great control over their personal hells. They choose only those fallen mortals who's path into corruption and darkness mirrored the demon's own fall. Thus, they watch as the light struggles against the darkness, not only to see which side is stronger, but ultimatly to see why.

As a twist, I figure that some of the Seven actually despise their Fallen state, and are secretly wondering just how redemption works, to see if it's possible to return to their original state.

The reason they give blessings and curses in equal measure is because they see the darklords as minature reflections of themselves, tiny mirrors reflecting all the facets of their own dark souls. Since they see themselves as cursed, and they're trying to duplicate the circumstances leading up to their deposing by the Nine Heroes, they grant tainted boons (and the ones trying to study redemption are hoping to learn just what it takes to make a person turn back from the path to hell).

After all, it makes sense that the Dark Powers should be as Gothically tragic and tormented as the villains they create, no?

[Platinumwarlock]

After some contemplation, I've begun to think that Ravenloft deals with the question on the same fashion as Paradise Lost. That is, both works pose the query, "Why evil?" When men work for good aims, at least in their own minds, how can those same men fall so far from the path of righteousness (whatever that may be).

To this, there is no true answer. Love is a driving force for good, but look where that got Strahd. Admiration of beauty is, similarly, a penchant of good, but that didn't help the Hive Queen very much.

As such, the Dark Powers are, imho, a set of beings out to answer the unanswerable....trying to find out how evil is constructed and how we fight against that construction. There being no answer to this quandary, one wonders what success could possibly be had. However, the end of any education is seldom reached, and who can say that the Dark Powers have an end in sight? Sometimes the most important part of any experiences is the process of that experience itself.

[Guest]

A long, long time ago, Man elevated himself above himself; some would say his own destiny. The world bowed before his destructive might, Nature bled from the incessant wounds inflicted by his rage, and soon even the gods suffered his wrath.

One after another, pantheons fell to Mankind's bloody scourge, Ambition; one after another the gods were obliterated from the reaches of Time and Space, and it did not take long for the remaining gods to assemble and decide on a course of action. It was decided that Mankind would be granted that which they so wickedly fought for: Solitude.

A thick fog, conjured and sent by these fearful divine entities, soon enveloped the lands of men. And within this fog, this mist, was their bribe to Man...Solitude for Reprieve.

Man has chosen to define his Good and his Evil, and the gods, now forever distant, have chosen not to dispute these definitions, for they have also chosen not to interfere in the schemes of men.

Let Mankind be damned, damned unto itself...



((Something like that. Just introduce some of RL's gods/goddesses as the sympathetic minority, others with wicked intentions, and others still as fabrications of RL-folk, and bam!, PC food-for-thought...

The Dark Powers are Mankind's collective reward and punishment for being, well, Mankind.

The Dark Lords represent mankind's Past- and those that would further its course, the PCs represent mankind's Future- and those that would alter its course, and the poor common folk of Ravenloft represents the battlefield that is mankind's Present...))

[Pacal]

In 2nd edition demiplanes were each the epitome of something. There was a demiplane of magic, time, shadow etc. Ravenloft was the demiplane of dread. Therefore, it existed soley to evoke dread by whatever means possible. This included trapping evil villains and cursing them to evoke terror in them. (think of the dread strahd feels each time he loses Tatyana or the dread alfred timothy feels of his secret being discovered). But the lords are given tremendous power as well to evoke terror in their subjects and neighbors. Adventurers were pulled in from the outside world and trapped in a land of villainy were there good deeds can only make small dents in the pervasive evil. Finally, the dread spread to other lands. Ethereal travels had heard rumors of the misty plane of horror just as netherese archmages knew that there was something out there near the demiplane of shadow that could trap them. I still haven't figured out how this meshes into 3rd edition though.

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

I didn't mean twisted as a definition of evil. The reason I call the Dark Powers twisted is that I see them as some natural force(s) that have no true moral hudgement, so they judge as they best see fit. They reward and condemn at the same time.

Dark Lords are granted dominion to some effect, but are confined to the extent of what they are granted. Common people are protected by the heroes that are allowed to rise and face the ever-present dangers of the world, but are plagued by the horrors they face and may believe are out there. Heroes in turn are granted success with failure, they may win a battle against the darkness, but for each door they open they are revealled to even more darkness that exists in the world.

General villains and monstrous creatures are franted the right to spread terror and death, but are hounded by the chance of becoming prisoners of their own lust and fear and are also hounded by the heroes that rise to thwart them.

So the Dark powers are not essentially evil, just misguided, believing that the end defines the means.

[Arif Sayeed]

Ravenloft's "why" has been the subject of about a decade of speculation, with no official publisher seeing fit to deliver an answer.

Ravenloft could have been a utopia gone awry, with the Dark Powers planning on creating a paradise for mortals, apart from the imperfections of the Prime.

Ravenloft could be a deliberately designed chessboard for the Dark Powers, with the winner gaining control of anything from a powerful artifact to the entire multiverse. The conditions and rules of this game would boggle all but the most fully developed intellects.

Ravenloft could be the product of chance, with the Dark Powers created by the dark thoughts and desperations of those trapped within.

I doubt Ravenloft was built to be a deliberate prison (Carceri fulfills that function more than satisfactorily) and I now doubt that Ravenloft was built in order to save the souls of those within.

[Jakob]

Since I'm the optimist type, I vote for the "grudge match"...

I see the Demiplane as a big, huge tableboard with the mortals' lives used as pawn... A kind of philosophical cosmic debate.