New Starwars rulebook

[alhoon]

Here is the presentation of the new rulebook for SWars.

To my opinion some changes are good, although other changes (made for simplicity) seem to be dragging the game backwards the 2nd edition. I don't mind faster combat, but the game seems too simple now from what I have read about it.

Is Steve Miller involved in this project? If yes, could we hear some opinion from you mr Miller?

[Scipion_Emilien]

Im actually waiting to have the book in my hand before making a judgement. But I think I ll like the change to the skill tree to streamline it.

On the other hand, I don't like the fact they drop the VP/WP system.

[JinnTolser]

I'm the exact opposite: I'm glad to see VP/WP gone because I got tired of my villains dying to lucky critical hits in the first or second round of combat. Makes for very anticlimactic encounters. And I think they simplified skills FAR too much.

[Jester of the FoS]

Skills were the hardest thing to do in 3E. They took forever to explain and unless you were making a first level character there were tonnes of them. And so much of an overlap. I like the idea of "stealth" and "perception".
I think it may be a tad too simple cutting out so many feats and synergies, but likely works without bogging down the game.

Don't know much about the combat system so I'm holding back comment on that. I like vp/wp but did think it needed some tweaking, everyone had a house rule and a variant, but they could have fixed it.

[JinnTolser]

Well, I actually got to play the game yesterday, though we were all trying to learn the system with just two copies of the book.

For one thing, the book is square, which is just visually jarring. Not a complaint really, just surprising.

It's WAY too expensive though, at $39.95 or thereabouts. Not at all a good price for the core book of a new line.

As for the system itself, so far it isn't as bad as I thought it would be. I like the concept of Stealth as one skill, as well as Perception (though I would have kept Sense Motive seperate, as I don't feel it's a good fit with the other skills folded into Perception). Gamble isn't a skill anymore, making it much harder to do unless you're willing to devote a bunch of Scoundrel talents to it, which IMO isn't worth it.

The idea of static defenses for Fortitude, Reflex and Will rather than saving throws and an AC I can't render a verdict on yet, though so far it's worked out pretty well. However, the game designers promised that armor would be worth it for heroic characters if they were willing to devote talents to it; I'm finding that beyond the first few levels, this isn't really the case, at least not unless you go for heavy or powered armor.

Speaking of talents, I like the concept so far, but there aren't as many (yet) as I thought there would be. Hopefully despite the high price they'll sell enough copies of the book to justify further supplements.

Last but not least, I'm glad to see that it's finally possible to make a character that can use the Force without being a Jedi, and without having to take the Force Adept class, which IIRC is now a prestige class anyway.

I'm not totally convinced yet, but the new system could well be a huge improvement. We'll see, I guess.

[alhoon]

IMO depends on the style of game you want to play. I like the many "overlapping" skills as they help making unique and more realistic characters.

Still, in the kind of game SWars is about, some simplifications of the skills should be made. I believe the system needs some work yet though, on the part of the creators and on the part of the DM.

As far as I understand of the game so far, their moto is "go simple!" instead of "go realistic". I'll tell you more when I actually have the book.

[alhoon]

Do you know if the new SW book is available for selling online? And I don't mean Amazon-like, I mean buying the PDF of the book like DrivethruRPG sells them. I have looked there but there isn't any mention of it yet.



And for those wondering, while a hard copy may be easier to carry etc, for a book I buy mostly to see the new skill and combat system buying a PDF for 70% or so of the price seems more reasonable.

[JinnTolser]

I don't think we can expect to see legal PDF versions of the Star Wars Saga Edition anytime soon. People on the WotC Star Wars boards have responded to requests for PDF downloads of Star Wars rulebooks in the past by saying that apparently WotC isn't allowed to do it. Their contract with Lucasfilm is very specific, and it seems that selling ANY content online, even PDF versions of printed books, would be in violation of that contract.

[alhoon]

Oh, no!

I don't want to wait 20 more days to see if the book will come in Greece and then spending the equivalent of 40$ on a book that will get on my already large stack of Hardpack books, resting on the chair next to me...

I just want the book not for the campaign but for the system. I want to see more about this new "fast paced" skill&combat system where the heroes even at 1st level are tough having triple the hp of the NPCs.

Is there at least any chance that WotC will give out an SRD about the rule system? Their Jedi council while quite good isn't as much as I would like to read.

[order99]

IMHO:

I believe that WOTC may be testing the waters with SW Saga. It's a better than even bet this new engine will be powering the D&D 4.0 game and the next D20 Modern...

If this is the case, one or more SRD's may make an appearence soon-assuming that WOTC is still interested in making it available for third-party use. Since everything they've done so far has been grown from works inspired by the previous SRD(and since the old OGL would allow "reverse-engineering" of this one) WOTC is likely to continue the third-party OGL policy...this of course would require an SRD.

In other words, be patient-I suspect an SRD online in a few months at most.

[Jack of Tears]

Since we're speculating, I had heard in the rumor mill that Hasbro won't be allowing third party merchase to be designed with the 4th edition system, for much the same reason they ditched Dungeon and Dragon magazines - they don't want the competition.

[Joël of the FoS]

Since we're speculating, I had heard in the rumor mill that Hasbro won't be allowing third party merchase to be designed with the 4th edition system, for much the same reason they ditched Dungeon and Dragon magazines - they don't want the competition.

This is total speculation by the way, without any link to anything WotC or its people has said.

Joël

[Jack of Tears]

Okay, well, like I said - this is flowing around the rumor mill, (and had become a quite popular belief) I make no claims as to its validity.

[order99]

Jack-

It is entirely possible that WOTC would like to phase out the whole OGL "shared system" phenomenon(personally, I think the cross-pollination has done them a world of good) but it's also possible they like things as is.

Having said that, I don't know if Wizards CAN deny use of the system. Whatever liscence they fashion for Saga-like D20 before it-can be as loose or as restrictive as WOTC wants...and of course Lucasfilm has total control of Star Wars content. But the Saga system was developed from the D20 core, which is fully Open under the OGL-in fact, it's a pretty good bet that Saga borrowed a great many elements from third-party developers in the first place(again, that's what OGL was for, cross-pollination as I said). The OGL exists in perpetuity and is irrevokable(that's how it was set up) under the current laws of the land.

So anyone could pretty much take an OGL system of any sort, tweak and release a homebrewed Saga SRD with no legal problems at all under any of the OGL agreements...don't call it Saga though, i'm pretty sure THAT is proprietary! Truth is, i've seen local homebrews that already match about 90% of Saga (one fellow I know wanted to give the Castles & Crusades treatment to his D20 Modern stuff frex) and those were arrived at pretty much independently.

Although (legal disclaimer!) i'm not an attorney, i've unofficially consulted with enough online and elsewhere to be pretty sure of my footing here. In fact, head over to RPGNow and search for OSRIC, an OGL SRD which has been(legally!) reverse-engineered to be at least 98% compatible with 1st ed. AD&D! The SRD is free and is the basis for multitudes of legally salable AD&D adventures and supplements...WOTC apparently had no qualms about this product, they ran an ad for it in the last printed Dragon Magazine!

[Jack of Tears]

Oh, again just rumor, but I'm not suggesting they'll try and stop use of the d20 ogl thing, but from what I've heard 4th edition will be different enough that products made under the ogl banner will be considered "last edition" and as such wouldn't be directly compatible with the new material - thus making them less attractive to those who follow the DnD line.

Again, all hearsay, but I've seen it quite a few places ... and nothing would surprise me after the cancelation of the magazines. (actually, I couldn't really care less as the cancelation was the last straw for me and I'm no longer a WOTC customer)