What the heck went wrong with Baldur's Gate 1?

HuManBing · Post by **HuManBing** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:21 pm

More or less, yes.

The PC had BG1 and an add on Tales of the Sword Coast.

The PC also had BG2 (which you could import your BG1 character from) and an add on Throne of Bhaal.

I'm not sure how closely related the console BG is to the other two. From what I heard the gameplay is very different.

Snake · Post by **Snake** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:18 pm

Alright thanks for clearing all that up.

Jack of Tears · Post by **Jack of Tears** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:07 am

Part of the problem with BG1 was the way in which you got xp. In the sequel you receive xp for using class abilities, memorizing spells, picking pockets, etc. but in the first game you were only rewarded for killing monsters, which made playing anything but a fighter pc a real pain. While it is true one can play in multiplayer and create additional pcs to fill out their party, they miss out on all the great npc interaction the game has to offer, which, for me, was the best reason to play.

While I agree one cannot always make rp based decisions in crpgs, I will note that I often made my decisions in BG2 based upon my perception of my character and enjoyed the game all the more for that. Indeed, I played though the entire game once without ever reloading unless my entire party died - choosing to carry dead pcs and their armor until I could find a temple or another means of having them resurected ... went through 3/4 of the underdark with only my PC bard and a Paladin (actually lost Minsc 1/2 way through) and still had a great time for the added sense of realism it added.

BG1 was an alright game, but could not compare to the higher quality of #2. (and no crpg to date has touched Planescape: Torment)

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:53 am

Coan wrote:BG1 is a great game but when you get to the final boss here's a hint: Monster Summoning Wands and plenty of them.

I grinned when I read this; it was that wonderful situation which caused them to limit the number of creatures you could summon in BG2. But damn it was wonderful to have an army of gnolls, orcs and wolves between you and Sarevok...

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:08 pm

@ HumanBing: I can't believe that you would prefer Icewind Dales to BG1 (I also enjoyed Torment). It was so linear (and thus dull) that I never finished that game. A friend of mine who did complained about how hard it was.

Everyone's going to prefer BG2 to BG1 in terms of improvements in game play (heck the speed alone!), but what can you expect? For its time, BG1 was amazing. My best friend used to play earlier RPG games on our PC and I ignored them all. I was reading when I heard some NPC making a passing comment to the PC as the party walked around, and went over to watch it all. I was addicted soon after, and believe you me, I am TERRIBLE when it comes to playing PC games.

The innovations BG2 introduced were available simply because of the popularity of its predecessor. Heck, there are people who are working on mods that permit you to play BG1 with BG2 rules. If you want, look them up, and you can have your cake and eat it too.

PS As for random encounters and difficulty sleeping- save, save, save...

HuManBing · Post by **HuManBing** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:14 pm

Yes, I'm aware of BGTuTu (which is the "Play BG1 in the BG2 Engine" hack). Like I said, it doesn't surprise that BG1 is different a rougher round the edges.

It surprises me that BG1 is practically unplayable for me because of quirks in its design. Obviously it didn't make it unplayable for the general demographic, because BG1 did very well commercially and (fortunately) spawned BG2.

Either way, I don't have much more to say about this. If you liked BG1, then you're a luckier and happier player than me. I was extremely disheartened with the game.

alhoon · Post by **alhoon** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:19 am

Llana wrote:@ HumanBing: I can't believe that you would prefer Icewind Dales to BG1 (I also enjoyed Torment). It was so linear (and thus dull) that I never finished that game. A friend of mine who did complained about how hard it was.

Everyone's going to prefer BG2 to BG1 in terms of improvements in game play (heck the speed alone!)

While the improvements were cool, I found the two games more or less equally enjoyable. I agree however that if I had seen BG2, I would find BG1 a bit ... small and hollow.
On the other hand I agree that Icewind Dale 1 was more difficult than BG1. However Linear or not, I liked IWD very much. The SLine was interesting and the enemies were interesting.

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:48 am

@ HumanBing: to each his own.

@ alhoon: I agree with you on enjoying both games equally- or at least, once I included that mod that speeded them up.

I haven't played either in two years, but I know that when I next do, I'll play them in order. Two of my biggest disappointments in BG2 were that they didn't include Xan and Coran. The third was making Imoen the PC's sister- ugh!

When I was bored (but not ready to replay any of the other games I like), I tried returning to IWD1 and 2, but I just couldn't get into either. That druid's monotonous voice in IWD1 didn't help either. I recall my friend playing during his looooong death speech, and scurrying to get out of that area just to shut him up.

alhoon · Post by **alhoon** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:23 am

Llana wrote:Two of my biggest disappointments in BG2 were that they didn't include Xan and Coran. The third was making Imoen the PC's sister- ugh!

Well, I didn't mind about Imoen one way or the other.
However, Xan and Coran died in BG1.

They couldn't return in BG2.

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:51 am

Neither died in BG1 (or at least, not when I had them in my party

). Xan was included in the tutorial for BG2; Coran was in the woods with his werewolf lover (can't remember her name). A very open-minded fellow, that one...

HuManBing · Post by **HuManBing** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:40 am

There is a BG2 mod that ignores the "Imoen is your sister" plot twist and instead allows you to have a romance with her.

Tactically, that's a bit of a weird decision given that [spoilers] her character takes an extended leave of absence from the party. [/spoilers]

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:09 am

I know; I never tried that mod because I'd never been a particular Imoen fan in either game. I always dropped her for Coran in BG1 when I found him; not as good a thief to begin with, but a 21 Dex made him very useful with the bow...

I would have been much happier if they'd let me keep Yoshimo in BG2. I know there's a mod which lets you do so, but I found it ridiculously hard. The only reason I ever bothered to keep Imoen around was due to the XP you did that last Bodhi encounter.

HuManBing · Post by **HuManBing** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:57 am

Yeah, Yoshimo was cool. It's too bad they hard coded his demise.

You can make the last battle against him easy though if you dual class him to a fighter right before he leaves you. Then when he fights you he has no backstab and no hide in shadows.

Imoen was okay for opening locks and disarming traps, but Yoshimo was far better.

My BG2 party was:

Me, Minsc, Imoen/Yoshimo, Aerie (romance), Jaheira, Jan

Later on I multiplayed into a custom made party, leaving only two slots open for NPCs. There's really nothing better than a dual class mage/cleric able to spell sequence divine spells as well as arcane

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:14 am

I did that trick too of multi-classing him!

I pretty much picked up everyone except the evil PC's, though I almost always had Anomen. I loved having a priest who could turn nearly all liches and vampires by game's end (including ToB, that is). I never was very good at playing with my mages.

I generally played a paladin in the game. I take it that you were generally a mage or sorcerer? Or perhaps a monk? I did that once- not easy to begin with at all!

Drinnik Shoehorn · Post by **Drinnik Shoehorn** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:16 am

My party currently is my BG1 character (human female fighter)/Minsc/Anomen (romanced)/Viconia/Edwin/Imoen.

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What the heck went wrong with Baldur's Gate 1?

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