Ravenloft Reanimated: Should We?

[WolfKook]

Ok: For those who haven't read this thread, it all began when several people start talking about what would they retcon or change in the Ravenloft setting, if given a chance, and some others started joking about creating an "Ultimate Ravenloft".

The wheels started turning, and in this thread (On the community projects forum) we came out with a set of goals to achieve, if such a project would ever come to happen. I list them below:

• To keep Ravenloft's original staples as a Fantasy/Gothic setting.

• To increase playability and attractiveness as a setting.

• To maintain the setting's internal logic and consistency.

• To keep a unified and consistent timeline.

• To include fan-made material.

The project came to a halt, however, as expectation about WotC's plans for the setting grew, and the release of an article describing a new Realm of Dread and hinting at the new vision for the setting became inminent. We decided to wait to see what they would come up with before going on with a project that would probably be doomed to failure from the beginning.

And now that said article has finally been released, and opinions about it come and go, the question remains the same as it was when the project was first proposed... Should we?

As I see it, if positive, there are two ways in which we could do it: The first one is adjusting the entire setting to the changes brought by WotC, using them as a perfect opportunity to update the setting and to bring it completely to 4E. The other one would be to remain closer to the original setting and deny the changes brought by WotC, making RL as a completely independent campaign setting (And possibly opening the way to using it with several different rulesets).

So, what do you think?

[brothersale]

wow, first vote huh. Well i have read the article and hated it, but we can't compleatly ignore WotC, so update the setting and keep it our way not there way unless we are compleatly off base and they do release a non-munkin version of Ravenloft, in its true form (but having seen the upheavals in the forgotten realm setting i don't think so)

[Irving the Meek]

Let me put it this way: There's no reason to discard 3.5 Ravenloft in favor of a 4e Ravenloft. That being said, the 4e mechanics, rules, and design philosophy are interesting enough that a 4e framework for Ravenloft could be a great deal of fun. It also permits us to incorporate new rules, equipment, and other pieces of design from current 4e into the setting as the mood strikes us.

A case in point: the warlock PC class has a lot of merit for Ravenloft. The spells are extremely evocative, and there's a lot of potential implicit in the mechanics. We'd need to rethink the "planar isolation" of Ravenloft, though.

I say go for it. Even if the end result isn't satisfactory to everyone, we've lost nothing.

[WolfKook]

Hehehe... Few replies, but a lot of votes, this is not seen often.

My vote went for a Ravenloft Reanimated (As would probably been obvious), apart from WotC's mainstream. Well, I know that the integration with the Shadowfell would probably return RL to former glory, but as it would seem, some of our goals would be very difficult to achieve.

Of course, it's my opinion.

[Paladyn]

I voted for doing on our own, if we realy, and i mean REALLY want to make Raveloft 4E. You kno, we got a new edition every couple years, so it's like: as soon as we finish some work it starts again. The other thing is tat I don't think 4th Edition goes along with Raveloft's spirit.

[order99]

Well, I didn't think 3E Ravenloft/Masque could replace 2E...but White Wolf's S&S imprint seemed to capture the essence of it pretty well. I ended up ripping a few choice body parts from it to graft onto my 2E campaigns (loved the 'Sinkholes of Evil' concept from 3E Masque and the Caliban from RL).

So, I think it unlikely that 4E can do RL/MotRD-but considering my track record to date i'm fully ready to have the Voices In My Head eat my words later on...

[Paladyn]

I'm afraid that Ravenloft based on 4th edition rules will be hack&slash, Halloween themed park of amusement.

[Lucien Doomdark]

Well, that depends on your players...

Look at World of Darkness, a game of creeping personal horror, or undead kung-fu-your-throat-with-Killingness-5-in-everything (now with added silver katanas)!

I'm sure it can run the same way in 4th Ed, which is a combat system, but with much more flexible antagonist generation. To be honest, the whole idea of D&D and Ravenloft doesn't strike me as an issue, I mean jimmying the system and the setting together will be interesting. It's MotRD that's going to be heaps of fun, especially with Arcane characters with At-Will powers...

A Reimagined Ravenloft would be great, especially for us young 'uns, who only remember the S&S supplements. I think the canon and the setting as it stands are packed full of years of history and duplication, and purloining characters from other settings, which is great, but confusing for the rest of us. Sithicus being a case in point, I had to have Lord Soth explained to me by an older and wiser gamer, only to find him excised due to copyright issues.

So a reboot/reanimation would be nice.

[Igor the Henchman]

In my current campaign, I've already started applying some of WolfKook's design tenets. I found the first two approaches you're proposing do not have to be mutually exclusive. Here's the layout of the Ravenloft I currently DM (in 4E):

Ravenloft is a Material World that's being slowly pulled into the Shadowfell. As such, the physical laws of the Shadowfell are beginning to supersede the old. The landmass has been dividing into "domains of dread" under the control of the most evil and pro-active individual within its borders, acting as darklord. Domain names, geography, darklord powers and curses, all remains the same.

Domains formed on the Material world are called Core Domains. These domains have a "normal world" feel to adventurers. Barovia, Darkon, Mordent, Har'Akir and Sri-Raji are all Core domains. Regions of the Material plane not yet claimed by a darkord are mostly polically-unstable, monster-infested wilderness.

Domains formed in the Shadowfell (including the "domains of dread" introduced by WotC) are called Islands of Terror. These appear alien and strange, and characters who find themselves there most often seek escape. Bluetspur, Odiare, the Nightmare Lands and Sunderheart are all Islands of Terror. Some Islands of Terror assemble into Clusters, one example being the Shadowlands. Regions of the Shadowfell not occupied by Islands are mostly thick, melevolent fog.

As both planes become increasingly linked, going from Material Ravenloft into the Shadowfell and back again is quite common for adventurers.

I'm sure it can run the same way in 4th Ed, which is a combat system, but with much more flexible antagonist generation.

4E is actually very flexible when it comes to antagonist generation. In our current game, the PCs have so far faced 5 all-new varieties of Widderribhinn, a group of Head Hunters, an evil fey-pact warlock and a nightmarish Aspect of Gwydion. All were quite easy to create from scratch using the monster creation rules in the 4E DMG.

[DasSoviet]

4E is actually very flexible when it comes to antagonist generation. In our current game, the PCs have so far faced 5 all-new varieties of Widderribhinn, a group of Head Hunters, an evil fey-pact warlock and a nightmarish Aspect of Gwydion. All were quite easy to create from scratch using the monster creation rules in the 4E DMG.

Good to see someone's able to run Ravenloft 4th edition without having it blow up in their faces... I've given up on trying to convert over several races and PrCs to 4E... way too much work, I end up banging my head on something hard after a few hours. Feats, abilities, monsters... I'll hold off until there's a larger variety to choose an average from, as right now I'm lost as a homebrewer, and I'm not about to play 4th edition Realms, considering I'm one of those people who started off with the Grey Box

Meanwhile, I'll be sticking with Pathfinder/3.5... and that's what I'll be writing up my homebrew Ravenloft cluster in.

[Lucien Doomdark]

Ravenloft is a Material World that's being slowly pulled into the Shadowfell....Regions of the Shadowfell not occupied by Islands are mostly thick, melevolent fog.

I really like your concept. So much so, I will probably steal it and use it in the Ravenloft campaign I intend to run (you know, the one you want to play but never get around to...). I haven't finished reading the new DMG but I had heard that flexibility was king, especially with people desperately converting Strahd & co on the WotC boards.

Out of curiosity, and for my own edification, what Domains have you incorporated into your Ravenloft, Igor?

[Igor the Henchman]

Out of curiosity, and for my own edification, what Domains have you incorporated into your Ravenloft, Igor?

This has nothing to do with the thread topic, but who can resist talking about their home game?

Domains in my game are slightly retooled to fit the "points of light" model, which I really like. In the "default" 4E setting, the world is a patchwork ruin of the latest great empire, whose language is today's Common. I decided that the domains of Ravenloft would be chattered pieces of four formely great kingdoms: Balok, Vaasa, Darkon and Mordent. Players get an extra language at character creation, to compensate there being four "common" languages, instead of one.

Domains with Balok tongue and culture include Barovia, Gundarak, G'Henna, Borca and Invidia. The common theme is large stretches of untamed wilderness, lycanthropes and vampires of all sorts roaming the wilds openly at night, heavily fortified towns and mostly uneducated, supersticious, hot-tempered or deeply suspicious natives.

Domains sprung from Vaasi culture include Hazlan, Kartakass and Nova Vaasa (itself only recently reunited from five feuding duchies under the still-fragile throne of Othmar Bolshnik). Common themes include the worship of Bane the Lawgiver, tolerance towards magic, wide class divisions, unfair exploitation of the poor, rich vocal and music tradition and exotic-looking fashion and food.

Domains with the Mordent heritage include Mordent, Dementlieu, Richemulot and Lamordia. Common themes are culture, civilization, sophistication, advanced technology and a general distrust of magic and religion in favor of more "rational" studies.

Darkon is the only realm that hasn't split. King Azalin managed to reclaim the majority of his former lands after a period of great turmoil. Darkonese culture favors such things as magic, feudalism and extreme fear of undead. In Darkon, all races are equal by edict of Azalin Rex. Any intelligent humanoid who claims allegiance to the King of Darkon is henceforth under the protection of the crown.

Tepest (vaasi tongue) and Sithicus (elven tongue) have never been formally part of a greater kingdom and live more or less unaffected by outside politics. Falkovnia (darkonese tongue), a vast military realm, has sprung in just a couple of centuries among the wild lands to the south-west of Darkon, and has become a very important player in the new politics.

Finally, there's quite a number of small fey and eladrin "realms" dotting the vast regions of the Feywild, outside of mortal sight. The most powerful by far is the realm of Arak (elven tongue), ruled by Queen Maeve and Prince Loht, both eladrin spellcasters of great power.

There. I rather like this setup.

End of Igor's Bragging Hour, and back to the main topic, I hope.

[Gnarfflinger]

This could be long. I have read all three threads and am ready to pontificate...

First, we have to face the possibility that WotC may not plan on an official Ravenloft release until 2010 at the earliest, 2012 more likely, and maybe they may not get to it! It could get even stickier because of the deal they had with White Wolf, and if there are legal concerns WotC may not be legally able to give us a 4e Ravenloft. Therefore I am assuming that we're on our own to save the setting we love.

Second, Judging from how 4e has handled the release of FR, I can see two different groups needed for such a project:

One group would be the custodians of the setting, compiling and fitting together the Geography, History, the personalities and anything else needed to maintain the setting. They would be involved with re-working the incomplete or lame parts, as well as assimilating new content.

The second group would be the rules committees These would be in charge of the game mechanics. Separate committees would be needed to cover each rule system that we want Ravenloft to work with. This would not only mean translating the special rules from older systems into future systems, but retrofitting new rules into older systems...

AS for what to include, Gothic horror is the what made Ravenloft what it is, but I don't see reasons why other types of horror wouldn't work in clusters.

On Darklords, Evil is not enough, but they must have committed some truly unforgivable crime, like Strahd's betrayal and murder of his best friend and his brother. These acts of perdition must be sheathed in emotion and elements of humanity gone to tragic extremes. Further, even if the adventure calls for the "kill", perhaps the Darklords can't truly die, but when you drop them to "0 hitpoints", they are bested, and appear to die, the escape is possible, but after the Characters are gone, the Darklord comes back and the domain reverts to normal. Alternatively, you could rip off the one scenario from Sunderheart, when Ivania and the Ghoul are slain, the dead rise and go berserk for a few days. Have the party defeat the Darklord then have them stuck in the chaos from the period of slumber then the horror of having the Darklord return...

As for closing the borders, While I like the idea that they can't be fully closed, it could be very difficult to escape when the Darklord doesn't want you to leave...

That's just some ideas I have. I want to see Manual of the Planes before I vote. I want to see what they say about the Shadowfell before deciding if it will suit our needs...

[Scipio]

I've been pondering the best way to convert Ravenloft over to 4e for a while now, and may steal a couple ideas from this thread. I agree that if we're going to see a 4e Ravenloft that stays true to our beloved setting we need to step up ourselves, as I don't know that the current 4e writers are up to the task. (Nothing personal against them, they just seem to be going more for the somewhat cheesy action movie motif these days.)

[WolfKook]

I like your ideas about the project, Gnarfflinger. Such division of work would require a lot of people working on it though. Perhaps we should start with the fluff part, and let the committees create themselves with the will to adapt such fluff to some rule system.