WotC Ends PDF Download Sales

Discussing all things Ravenloft
User avatar
Lord Cyclohexane
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:59 pm
Location: Tanelorn, OH

WotC Ends PDF Download Sales

Post by Lord Cyclohexane »

While looking through the Ravenloft FAQ and following up on Ravenloft PDFs, I found out the following bad news. From ICV2:
WotC Ends PDF Download Sales, Citing Piracy
Published: 04/06/2009 10:09pm

Wizards of the Coast has ended sales of PDF editions of its products, which had been sold by online retailers such as DrivethroughRPG.com, RPGNow.com, and Paizo.com. A Wizards of the Coast spokesperson told ICv2, “Unfortunately, due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to cease the sale of online PDFs.”
Paizo, which had a complete collection of the 2E Ravenloft PDFs, now has absolutely no WotC PDFs on their site. All that remains are what few physical books they have for sale.

DriveThruRPG, however, does still have the 3E Ravenloft PDFs, though. As they're still listed with a publisher as "White Wolf," those PDFs still remain while all other WotC PDFs have disappeared with the disclaimer:
Wizards of the Coast has instructed us to suspend all sales and downloads of Wizards of the Coast titles. Unfortunately, this includes offering download access to previously purchased Wizards of the Coast titles. We are in discussions with Wizards about their decision to change their approach to digital sales of their titles and will post more information as we have it. If you would like to let Wizards know your opinion on offering D&D titles for download, we suggest the D&D Message Boards found here.
I thought I'd post this here, as I have no idea how things will go with the 3E Ravenloft books. Since the ownership technically reverted back to WotC, I figure the 3E Ravenloft PDFs will disappear soon. As such, I figure I'd warn people that, if you or a friend are missing anything, now's the time to pick it up.

WotC may not ever come back and get DriveThruRPG to take down the Ravenloft 3E stuff, but it's probably a good thing to keep in mind, just in case.

Link to the Ravenloft Section on DriveThruRPG.com
My name is lost to me
I know not who I am
And I await the crimson fires
That'll wash this world away!
- Wolfbait, "In My Lonely Time Of Dying"
User avatar
Ornum
Agent of the Fraternity
Agent of the Fraternity
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:01 pm

Post by Ornum »

So they make everyone take them down and stop selling them because of piracy. Do they realize that because of this, anyone who was willing to pay for the product will now have no other option but illegal downloading? Good thinking on their part.
User avatar
Catman Jim
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 844
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:58 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Sunny Florida

Post by Catman Jim »

My understanding is that the termination of all online PDF sales was in connection with the legal actions WotC took this week.

From Wizards Press page:

WIZARDS OF THE COAST SUES EIGHT FOR COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

April 6, 2009 — Wizards of the Coast LLC today filed three lawsuits in US District Court for the Western District of Washington against eight individuals, including named defendants located in the United States, Poland and the Philippines, for copyright infringement of its recently-released Dungeons & Dragons® Player’s Handbook® 2. The lawsuits allege that the defendants illegally distributed the Player’s Handbook 2 via free file-sharing websites and that these illicit uploads resulted in a substantial number of lost sales and lost revenue to Wizards of the Coast.

“Violations of our copyrights and piracy of our products hurt not only Wizards of the Coast’s financial health but also the health of whole gaming community including retailers and players,” said Greg Leeds, President of Wizards of the Coast. “We have brought these suits to stop the illegal activities of these defendants, and to deter future unauthorized and unlawful file-sharing.”

The complaint alleges, among other things, that one or more of the defendants purchased digital copies of Player’s Handbook 2 and then illegally posted the copies onto popular file-sharing sites for free access and download by the general public.
I only wish I had retired sooner!
User avatar
NeoTiamat
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 4119
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:00 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Post by NeoTiamat »

Well, at least from what I know, White Wolf announced a global 10% discount on its PDFs not twenty four hours after WotC pulled its PDFs. Then Paizo gave Pathfinder a 35% discount maybe six hours after White Wolf.

So Wizards has just gone and handed its competitors a lovely bit of market share, gift-wrapped and tied with a bow.

That said, one theory I've heard is that this is an example of executive meddling on the part of Hasbro. Anyone nerdy enough to make D&D games for a living would know that cutting off PDFs isn't going to do more than provide a small speed-bump in piracy, so this has the feel of orders from on high.

Of course, we might now even be in the same hemisphere as the right answer, but it's a theory.
Ravenloft GM: Eye of Anubis, Shattered City, and Prof. Lupescu's Traveling Ghost Show
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
User avatar
Jester of the FoS
Jester of the Dark Comedy
Jester of the Dark Comedy
Posts: 4536
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:19 am
Location: A Canadian from Canadia

Post by Jester of the FoS »

The problem is piracy is rampant with D&D books. Watermarking (which identifies the books and prevents them from being shared) was not working. There were always pirated copies of the latest release available within minutes of the public release.

I imagine this is the result of sales of hardbound books not being as good as expected.
PDFs can be blamed for some of this, but the Character Builder is a pretty good target as well. No one in my 4e group has bought the PHB2 and half don't have a PHB1 (they're new to the game) because ALL the feats, races, classes, and powers are handled in the downloadable program.

Will this solve piracy?
Well, a lack of PDF didn't stop the leak of the Core 4e books a week before launch.
And it still won't prevent people with a good scanner and text recognition programs from knocking out copies.
The people who were not going to pay still are not going to pay. And those who would now can't.
User avatar
cure
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:34 pm

Post by cure »

If I understand correctly, this has just wiped out legal access to the entire 2e range of Ravenloft products, which, if true, is yet another way of saying, "You will be assimulated."
The cure for what ails you
User avatar
Igor the Henchman
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 793
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:50 pm

Post by Igor the Henchman »

About the loss of OOP products - should we write them a letter or ten?
User avatar
Jester of the FoS
Jester of the Dark Comedy
Jester of the Dark Comedy
Posts: 4536
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:19 am
Location: A Canadian from Canadia

Post by Jester of the FoS »

The most insulting part of this is the blocking of future access.
WotC didn't just stop publishing their new books as PDFs (like Arcane Power) or halt future sales: they removed all the content so people who actually paid for the books will not be able to download them at a future date!

Pirates will always be able to access the previously released books. This ONLY hurts the people who paid for the books.

So if three months from now a hardware burn-out or virus wipes out someone's 4e library they either have to pay for something they already purchases or download illegally.
User avatar
NeoTiamat
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 4119
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:00 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Post by NeoTiamat »

For some reason, most anti-piracy measures end up hurting legitimate customers a lot more than illegal downloaders.

I recall that with videogames, Stardock had some truly vicious copyright protection, including a limit of three installs per disk. End result? Legitimate users who had bad computers or bugged installs were out of luck, pirates just excised the DRM and put up the torrents a week later than usual.

I have a personal suspicion that this policy isn't going to last too long. It's not going to stop piracy, it hurts Wizard's market-share and profits, and it seems to have ignited an absolute whirlwind of criticism.

Then again, my predictive ability with regards to politics is dismal, so I am probably wrong about my corporate predictions also.
Ravenloft GM: Eye of Anubis, Shattered City, and Prof. Lupescu's Traveling Ghost Show
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
User avatar
Kaitou Kage
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 2115
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:53 am
Location: Here and there
Contact:

Post by Kaitou Kage »

cure wrote:If I understand correctly, this has just wiped out legal access to the entire 2e range of Ravenloft products, which, if true, is yet another way of saying, "You will be assimulated."
This has wiped out legal access to ALL 2e and 1e products, save what lucky ones you can find on eBay and similar sites for about $1 million.

I've sent an email to both the dndinsider address and Tolena Thorburn (the head PR manager) expressing displeasure. I know it won't get read but when I sent the emails I had a hope that the powers that be up there would get the hint if enough people sent in irate letters. I am beginning to doubt this, though. After this incredible backlash, one would think that a Wizards rep would step forward and say something.

Ars Technica got an interview with Ms. Thorburn where she essentially said Wizards is completely and utterly out of touch with their customer base.

I suspect Wizards wants to keep all PDF sales for themselves, though if so, the way they're doing it is pretty stupid. Also, the company's complete silence is doing nothing but irritating people further. They are, after all, "actively exploring other avenues for digital distribution."

One would think that the company would step forward and address the angry customer base. People have been livid about this decision and I have seen virtually no support for it. If there is some bigger reason behind the decision they "did not take lightly," then it would behoove them to inform their customers. Otherwise they'll likely lose more customers than they would if they just came clean.

One would also think that if a company received such an overwhelmingly negative reaction to a business move, the company would step back and rescind the decision at least partially. When you upset your customers, you lose business.

I know everyone here knows that piracy is a fact of life on the internet, so I'm kind of preaching to the choir. That doesn't make it a good thing, but it's an issue that nobody has figured out an answer to. I personally believe there is no answer and the internet pirates will be around as long as the internet is. However, if there is an answer, Wizards took exactly the wrong step to take when dealing with piracy.

However, it seems that Wizards has neither business-conscious or internet-savvy executives running the company. It could benefit from both.

I bet Arcane Power will be on torrent sites about as soon as it hits the shelves. I also bet that pirating rates of Arcane Power will spike noticeably out of sheer spite for Wizards' idiotic and shortsighted attitude.
Troile
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 9:22 am
Location: Canada

Post by Troile »

The best example of anti-piracy methods encouraging more piracy is with movies.

If you buy a legitimate copy you are forced to sit through an anti-piracy advertisement.

Though if you download it illegally you can just get to watching the movie.
User avatar
Algaris
Criminal Mastermind
Criminal Mastermind
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:28 pm
Location: Cornwall, England

Post by Algaris »

White Wolfs response:
http://www.swordsorcery.com/ravenloft/i ... cleid=1085
White Wolf Publishing To Continue PDF Products
Free and Discounted Downloads to Reward Fan Loyalty

In light of recent announcements, some fans have expressed concern over the future of electronic (PDF) format book sales in the RPG industry. White Wolf Publishing today has announced that it currently has no plans to discontinue its existing PDF products.

“Quite the opposite,” says Eddy Webb, the Alternative Publishing Developer for White Wolf. “I believe this is a growing market with potential we haven’t yet had a chance to fully explore, both as publishers and as fans of role-playing games.” Eddy remarked that he has dozens of upcoming PDF-exclusive products on his schedule in addition to continuing to provide PDF versions of upcoming products, and that White Wolf is still actively looking into returning to the print-on-demand arena.

To celebrate White Wolf’s continuing devotion to PDF products and reward their growing, loyal fan base, the company is offering a free download of the Exalted Second Edition rulebook as well as a one-time 10% discount on the purchase of any White Wolf PDF titles through DriveThruRPG.com and RPGNow.com from 1 Am Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. Simply enter the coupon code “wwlovesyou” to receive the discount. Both offers expire by midnight (EST) on Sunday, April 12th.
I hope that if D&D ebooks come back they'll be kept in an open format (I'm quite happy with my watermarked PDF's) and not locked up to their eyes in DRM. When I buy an ebook I want to be able to copy and paste from it, print the whole thing out (in one sitting if I feel like it), use it on what ever computer I'm with at the time, read it on my Pocket PC and when book readers have advanced along enough read it on one of them. I want to be able to do all of this from one purchased copy, without having to activate/transfer licenses, or worry about using specialist software that might not run on my Mac.
User avatar
Kaitou Kage
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 2115
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:53 am
Location: Here and there
Contact:

Post by Kaitou Kage »

Algaris wrote:I hope that if D&D ebooks come back they'll be kept in an open format (I'm quite happy with my watermarked PDF's) and not locked up to their eyes in DRM. When I buy an ebook I want to be able to copy and paste from it, print the whole thing out (in one sitting if I feel like it), use it on what ever computer I'm with at the time, read it on my Pocket PC and when book readers have advanced along enough read it on one of them. I want to be able to do all of this from one purchased copy, without having to activate/transfer licenses, or worry about using specialist software that might not run on my Mac.
Even if it does come out in a proprietary format, there'll still be ways around it. Anyone with Adobe Acrobat will be able to print to PDF with almost no problems. Short of making the files pointlessly inaccessible, a proprietary format is not a solution.
User avatar
Sorti
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:56 am
Location: Ethereal Border

Post by Sorti »

Algaris wrote:
To celebrate White Wolf’s continuing devotion to PDF products and reward their growing, loyal fan base, the company is offering a free download of the Exalted Second Edition rulebook as well as a one-time 10% discount on the purchase of any White Wolf PDF titles through DriveThruRPG.com and RPGNow.com from 1 Am Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. Simply enter the coupon code “wwlovesyou” to receive the discount. Both offers expire by midnight (EST) on Sunday, April 12th.
Nice :D! Downloading now :)
Coltiviamo per tutti un rancore
che ha l'odore del sangue rappreso
ciò che allora chiamammo dolore
è soltanto un discorso sospeso
User avatar
Le Noir Faineant
Rafe, Agent of the Fraternity
Rafe, Agent of the Fraternity
Posts: 4522
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:25 pm
Location: The Wind Isles

Post by Le Noir Faineant »

The problem, from all I get so far, is that 4e simply is not doing well.

Why so? - Out of all the reasons the fans usually name.

Now, not to say it isn't hard to work on the base of what 3e left - a basically open source rule system and almost every setting and theme of roleplaying already covered extensively by themselves or a 3pp.

Still, the kind of mismanagement Wizbro has displayed for the rpg market since 4e is stunning.

First, the killing off of the print magazines.
The GSL that noone accepted.
The cancellation of Living Greyhawk.
The cancellation of Living Death.
The ending of the 3e Dragonlance line that was very well-liked.
The FR revamp that noone liked.
Then, the cancellation of the PDF distribution.

I like to think that people who have supposedly learned their business
take some measures out of a reason, but this looks to me like deliberately raining on the D&D parade by destroying functioning and doing-well structures.

Not that I really care, but I guess the damage to D&D as a brand could not be worse if the Hasbro CEO committed public seppuku.

Not wanting to revert to one of those pseudo-businessmman discussions,
but that doesn't make sense to me at all.

Other companies seem to be successful WITHOUT constantly trying to castrate the hobby - like White Wolf, Mongoose, Atlas Games. Troll Lord Games, or even Paizo.

All this entire matter gives me is yet another TSR-related facepalm and the certainty that the days of D&D are numbered.
Post Reply