Café de Nuit

Good evening, fine ladies and distinguished gentlemen. Oh, and my regards to any horrors that stalk the night, too. You know who you are.

I wouldn't say I'm new to RPGs, for I've been reading such material for a long time, but I will be the first to admit I have little to no practice in actual playing or DMing. I live in a faraway land where the very concept of tabletop RPGs is unheard of, and as such, I've had to resort to PbP. I've GM'd about six games in the past four or five years, only one of which remains active to this day. I've played in many, many more, but they've been prone to die gruesome, inglorious deaths. My previous attempts at GMing proved to be fairly disappointing for all involved, due to inexperience and what I like to call "Excessive Ambition Syndrome," something which might very well prove to be my doom.

My experience in Ravenloft is likewise lacklustre. I've read most of the books, from 2e and 3/3.5e. I've read the updates to 4e hosted in this charming website. I've played a grand total of one game, which I was forced to quit after finding that the story and the GM's characterisation failed to rouse any sort of interest in me. Not even his introduction of Count Strahd, his castle and his speech were enough for me to evoke the feelings and sensations I got simply from reading the rulebooks.

I want to give it another try. I decided that I'm thinking about attempting a small, short adventure with 4 trustworthy players. I'm going to confine the entirety of the adventure inside a pocket domain of my creation (Château De Brumes, in Dementlieu, to be precise) and focus heavily in roleplaying and messing with the characters' minds.

What I was humbly seeking from this elegantly macabre community (or is that macabrely elegant?) was some advice about the following points:

1) What system should I use? Combat will be scarce, mayhap 1 or 2 "encounters" per Act (and I foresee a total of four acts, Introduction, Investigation, Revelation and Finale). I am familiar with D&D 3.5e, nWoD, D20 Modern (And Past, too) and M&M. I am new to 4e, but I have played a few games and I was told it makes things fairly easy on the new DM.

2) Is my plot feasible and interesting? I intend to have the players trapped in a luxurious mansion along with a handful of NPCs. There was a masque ball that evening. The characters could be aristocrats, servants or anyone that could have a believable reason to be in the Château in the first place. Most of the guests leave at a certain hour, but the PCs and a handful of NPCs tarry behind. Perhaps they were engaged in a riveting game, perhaps they fell asleep, perhaps they were doing shady dealings or secret dalliances. By the time the young host of the party gathers his remaining guests and leads them to the front entrance, they find the doors locked. It is not possible to open it, nor to break any windows. A strangely thick mist impedes visibility outside. Some of the doors inside the Château are also locked, but these can actually be unlocked if they find the right keys. The players will be treated to a horrifying journey through a manor full of mystery. Is it haunted? Has an eldritch ritual gone wrong? Or has it perhaps gone right? Is this related to the skeletons in the owner's family's closet?

3) Do you detect any potential pitfalls in the plot above?

4) Do you have any tips or advice for running a Ravenloft game? Assume I have read everything in the front page's links. This question is aimed more towards organisation, potential problems, useful preparations, etc.

5) Anything else you wish to comment will be more than welcome.

If you have read this far, I wholeheartedly thank you.

Welcome to the fraternity! I hope you will enjoy your stay. Even though my stays here are usually brief, the esteemed members are usually of a great help.

As for your questions:

1) What system should I use?

Well, for this, the first thing I would say is to consults with yours players. If your players are familiars and want to use the system, it's likely that the game will run smoother since you will not be the only to care about the rules.

As for my own preference, I find that 4e suit better for a high-fantasy games, which doesn't seem to be for what you are aiming. I would go, for 3.5/PF, or even d20modern/past if you want to go really gritty.

2) Is my plot feasible and interesting?

Yep both. I would gladly play in such a plot, and it's possible that a chateau des brumes pop one night in one of my game session.

3) Do you detect any potential pitfalls in the plot above?

The main pitfall that I see is that players can and probably will try to ram/blow or lockpick the doors. You will have to adjucate those things. Personnally, i'm not fond of the whole key/door things, try to consider the house as something less static, perhaps as having encounter tie in to events rather than location (ex.: the party is split).

4) Do you have any tips or advice for running a Ravenloft game?

One advice I could say but I don't think will apply to you, is to remember that Ravenloft ain't a power trip for the DM setting. In a Ravenloft game, you often control more the setting and the location than on a normal fantasy game. A close house with misty boundary is after all a DM paradise. This put much more power in the hand of the DM, so use it wisely to further the fun of the group and not screw the players for the sake of it. I haved encounters many players burned about the setting because of power-hungry DM.

1) What system should I use?
Savage Worlds is a pretty good fit with Ravenloft. I've been using it for my campaign and it's working out really well. The heroes still feel like Heroes, but it's not completely over the top like in D&D. Savage Worlds is great for low magic settings where the combat is fast, fun, and kind of deadly.

2) Is my plot feasible and interesting?
The "party trapped in a haunted building" adventure is a good fit for Ravenloft. It's always fun to trap a group of heroes in a confined area and see how they react.

3) Do you detect any potential pitfalls in the plot above?
You want to prevent the adventure from turning into a dungeon crawl. Drawing up a bunch of rooms and filling them with monsters and "spooky things" just isn't going to work. You need to create something for the heroes to actually do, like find all the clues and use them to solve the mystery, or have a series of events occur that the party has to interrupt somehow, etc. Like Scipion_Emilien said, you need a good mix of encounters. Some should be assigned to certain rooms, others occur at certain points along a time line, and others are triggered by the actions of the heroes.

Use whatever system You get the most pleasure from-your plot is fine-just keep it simple and play slowly-take your time and remember-Rome wasn't burned in a day.

Scipion_Emilien wrote:Welcome to the fraternity! I hope you will enjoy your stay. Even though my stays here are usually brief, the esteemed members are usually of a great help.

As for your questions:

1) What system should I use?

Well, for this, the first thing I would say is to consults with yours players. If your players are familiars and want to use the system, it's likely that the game will run smoother since you will not be the only to care about the rules.

As for my own preference, I find that 4e suit better for a high-fantasy games, which doesn't seem to be for what you are aiming. I would go, for 3.5/PF, or even d20modern/past if you want to go really gritty.

2) Is my plot feasible and interesting?

Yep both. I would gladly play in such a plot, and it's possible that a chateau des brumes pop one night in one of my game session.

3) Do you detect any potential pitfalls in the plot above?

The main pitfall that I see is that players can and probably will try to ram/blow or lockpick the doors. You will have to adjucate those things. Personnally, i'm not fond of the whole key/door things, try to consider the house as something less static, perhaps as having encounter tie in to events rather than location (ex.: the party is split).

4) Do you have any tips or advice for running a Ravenloft game?

One advice I could say but I don't think will apply to you, is to remember that Ravenloft ain't a power trip for the DM setting. In a Ravenloft game, you often control more the setting and the location than on a normal fantasy game. A close house with misty boundary is after all a DM paradise. This put much more power in the hand of the DM, so use it wisely to further the fun of the group and not screw the players for the sake of it. I haved encounters many players burned about the setting because of power-hungry DM.

Thank you for the welcome! It sure seems like a "cozy" place.

1) Well, that's what I'd normally do, but I don't have any players yet. I'll try and ask around my PbP buddies if any of them wants to give it a try. I could even ask around here if that doesn't work.

Personally, I like 3e's variety, but 4e's balance (and skill list!), and in the end, I just want to go with the one that's both easiest to run and easiest to adapt to Ravenloft (and I agree with you that 4e is more high fantasy. To me, "cinematic" is not always a positive descriptor).

2) Hah, well thank you. I thought it might be boring or cliché ("Oh, no, we're trapped in a spooky mansion. Like countless other characters in other stories before us. Yawn."). If you want to hear more about the Château, send me a PM! I'll be more than glad to provide inspiration to a fellow DM.

3) Ah, yes, I actually expect them to do it. Normally, I'd have them go all over the mansion looking for the keys (And learning more about the plot on the way). This way, they have to go to the East Wing, solve a puzzle/encounter/skill challenge, get a key for the West Wing, open a room, survive a trap, get a key for the East Wing, etc. However, I will allow that, in certain occasions, they can just break down a door or pick its lock. I intend to provide them with variety.

However, I also intend to introduce an element of risk when it's dramatically appropriate. If they fail the DC to pick a lock or break down a certain door for more than a given number (say 5 or 10), or if they perform exceedingly poorly, maybe the lock breaks and it's not only unpickable, but unopenable even if they find the key. That will force them to seek other ways of entry to the room (and I'll make sure that every important room has at least 2 ways of entering it).

Also, I find it extremely intriguing that you suggested making the adventure event-based instead of location-based. What I was planning to do was to create the mansion's floor plan (by modifying the floor plans of a Real Life mansion) and then divide each "scene" according to the room or general location it takes place in. That way, the players would have complete freedom to roam the mansion as they pleased, and the plot-relevant events would only occur if they entered the appropriate rooms.

Since you're suggesting making it event-based, I'm now very curious as to how would that benefit me (since I can't see it for myself). Would the story and the game evolve better that way? Wouldn't it be a bit too much "railroading"? Wouldn't it throw things off balance if the players didn't act as I predicted?

4) Yes, I am fully aware of that. However, I will admit that what you said applies to me when it comes to NPCs. I definitely go on a power trip and gleefully torture the NPCs I create, whether they're innocent or corrupt. However, I'm aware that repetition tends to create desensitisation, so I will try to hold back my urge to torture those poor figments of my imagination.

Thanks for your thoughtful replies, by the way. They've been most helpful.

Shadowdragon wrote:1) What system should I use?
Savage Worlds is a pretty good fit with Ravenloft. I've been using it for my campaign and it's working out really well. The heroes still feel like Heroes, but it's not completely over the top like in D&D. Savage Worlds is great for low magic settings where the combat is fast, fun, and kind of deadly.

2) Is my plot feasible and interesting?
The "party trapped in a haunted building" adventure is a good fit for Ravenloft. It's always fun to trap a group of heroes in a confined area and see how they react.

3) Do you detect any potential pitfalls in the plot above?
You want to prevent the adventure from turning into a dungeon crawl. Drawing up a bunch of rooms and filling them with monsters and "spooky things" just isn't going to work. You need to create something for the heroes to actually do, like find all the clues and use them to solve the mystery, or have a series of events occur that the party has to interrupt somehow, etc. Like Scipion_Emilien said, you need a good mix of encounters. Some should be assigned to certain rooms, others occur at certain points along a time line, and others are triggered by the actions of the heroes.

1) Hmmm, I've been meaning to read Savage Worlds, since I heard good things about it. I'll definitely consider it as a choice if I like the system.

2) Indeed! Though it does feel kind of a waste to ignore all the rich background the other domains have, such as Paridon's sewers, Falkovnia's bellicose machinations, Barovia's villagers, Azalin's plots, Sithicus's elves, Mordent and Richemulot's decadent feel, Lamordia's mad science, Souragne's old voodoo feel, and so on. Although I'm sure I can sneak in some of Dementlieu's dark politics, it's not truly the same if the players never leave the confines of a building for the entire campaign.

3) Oh, yes, of course. Just as nature abhors a vacuum, I abhor the absence of plot in a story. Around 80% of the rooms, whether they're full of monsters, spooky things, traps, hallucinations or ordinary furniture, will contain something related to the plot at hand. I have already planned the basics of it, and my game's tagline might as well be "A Tale Of Tragedy, Corruption And A Poisoned Family" or "How Far Would You Go To Get What You Wanted?"

But I wholly agree that I need to mix things up. If everything is triggered by location, it's going to get old fast, and I need to keep the players on their toes. I am going to try and fight predictability as much as I can.

Thank you for your advice as well, you've given me a lot to think about!

Sareau wrote:Use whatever system You get the most pleasure from-your plot is fine-just keep it simple and play slowly-take your time and remember-Rome wasn't burned in a day.

Hah, nice metaphor. I'll definitely keep it in mind.

Scale back a little. Start smaller. The hardest thing for a new GM who's been a long time player or just has experience storytelling is taking to the role of the referee-what makes a good player and a good GM are two different skill sets and need to be approached separately. If you've had problems with your game falling apart, it might be that you are so focused on plot that you've forgotten the game part of the experience. In other words, you are applying advanced gming tricks without setting up a strong base first.

Even this "reduced campaign" involves you making your own domain which seems to largely involve the PCs learning about the backstory you've written. What do they get to do? What are the personal stakes for the characters? What are the rewards for success? Even "survival" can be complicated with most experience systems.

You have the right idea with starting with a very standard sort of adventure. I daresay you might want to try having the PCs explore a dungeon with some sort of dragon in it. Details are great; they're the difference between competent GMs and great GMs, but you have to get to "competent" first.

The traditional, "Mercenaries looking for adventure and loot." campaign can actually be very useful in that regard; the PCs's motivation is simple but enduring("Paying the rent."), and flexible enough to fit into nearly any sort of adventure, depending on who is paying for the PCs's services. And you can leave the game, try a more structured campaign or just something different, and come back to old characters easily; its just been slow for a few months. Why not have your haunted house just be a "dungeon"? The PCs are hired to investigate the house on behalf of a distant relative of the family who's inherited the place and has no interest in falling victim to any sort of family curse, treacherous servant, restless spirit, or any other cliche. Maybe their employer ends up betraying the PCs or falling victim to the curse of the house, and the PCs are left with the property to convert into a headquarters. Then you can seed your story about the house throughout your game, by ridding the between session stuff with references to the past and occasionally haunting the dreams of your PCs-they can't just sell the place because, well, where else are you going to get a rent controlled townhouse in Port-a-Lucine?

As you gain experience running adventures, you will develop an instinct for working personal details and character threads into the game; some stuff might not work out, and try not to get discouraged at a few failures. There's one blogging GM who posts something he's learned from every session-usually four or five things. This makes even a sub-par session productive for you, and helps keep you in a forward thinking mindset. This is imperative; if you give up on the game, your PCs will notice and, like any animal, will immediately begin looking for a way out or a choice bit of meat to scavenge.

you could have it be part of a campaign, ie pick the domain that you and your players like the most, and set this part of the adventure there. I get the feeling it is best in one of the civilized domains like Mordent, Dementilieu, and Richemulot. Place it there and then give the characters a reason to go inside the house. After the leave the house they can continue on in the campaign.

DocBeard wrote:Scale back a little. Start smaller. The hardest thing for a new GM who's been a long time player or just has experience storytelling is taking to the role of the referee-what makes a good player and a good GM are two different skill sets and need to be approached separately. If you've had problems with your game falling apart, it might be that you are so focused on plot that you've forgotten the game part of the experience. In other words, you are applying advanced gming tricks without setting up a strong base first.

Even this "reduced campaign" involves you making your own domain which seems to largely involve the PCs learning about the backstory you've written. What do they get to do? What are the personal stakes for the characters? What are the rewards for success? Even "survival" can be complicated with most experience systems.

You have the right idea with starting with a very standard sort of adventure. I daresay you might want to try having the PCs explore a dungeon with some sort of dragon in it. Details are great; they're the difference between competent GMs and great GMs, but you have to get to "competent" first.

The traditional, "Mercenaries looking for adventure and loot." campaign can actually be very useful in that regard; the PCs's motivation is simple but enduring("Paying the rent."), and flexible enough to fit into nearly any sort of adventure, depending on who is paying for the PCs's services. And you can leave the game, try a more structured campaign or just something different, and come back to old characters easily; its just been slow for a few months. Why not have your haunted house just be a "dungeon"? The PCs are hired to investigate the house on behalf of a distant relative of the family who's inherited the place and has no interest in falling victim to any sort of family curse, treacherous servant, restless spirit, or any other cliche. Maybe their employer ends up betraying the PCs or falling victim to the curse of the house, and the PCs are left with the property to convert into a headquarters. Then you can seed your story about the house throughout your game, by ridding the between session stuff with references to the past and occasionally haunting the dreams of your PCs-they can't just sell the place because, well, where else are you going to get a rent controlled townhouse in Port-a-Lucine?

As you gain experience running adventures, you will develop an instinct for working personal details and character threads into the game; some stuff might not work out, and try not to get discouraged at a few failures. There's one blogging GM who posts something he's learned from every session-usually four or five things. This makes even a sub-par session productive for you, and helps keep you in a forward thinking mindset. This is imperative; if you give up on the game, your PCs will notice and, like any animal, will immediately begin looking for a way out or a choice bit of meat to scavenge.

Hm. Smaller than a one-shot adventure? I'm not planning an entire campaign or anything.

As for the "dungeon" part and the "typical mercenary party" suggestions... well, they're very useful and I'm sure that they are of great benefit to most new GMs, but that's not really my style. I honestly wouldn't enjoy playing nor running a dungeon crawl. The mercenary party hook sure has its merits, but I could never really wrap my head around the concept of adventuring as a viable career. To me, a game should be first and foremost about a story (and I mean a story with a plot I find interesting, not "The Adventures of Mercenary Company X"). Games that amount to a great percentage of hack and slash bore me to tears.

I'm definitely going to take into consideration what you said in the first part about finding a reason for the players to care. After all, keeping them interested and engaged is definitely a must.

Thanks for the tips!

herkles wrote:you could have it be part of a campaign, ie pick the domain that you and your players like the most, and set this part of the adventure there. I get the feeling it is best in one of the civilized domains like Mordent, Dementilieu, and Richemulot. Place it there and then give the characters a reason to go inside the house. After the leave the house they can continue on in the campaign.

Hm, that's a possibility, yes, but I was aiming to make it a one-shot thing. Once they resolve the plot and escape the mansion, then that's it. The sun rises and a relaxing music plays as the credits roll (figuratively, of course). But I suppose that if the adventure was a success and the players want another one, I could come up with one. And yes, I was planning on placing the mansion on Dementlieu.