Game of Thrones - the TV series

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I'm not sure that "set upon" is the right term, though. From what I see in my recap site, and from what I remember in the show and book, Arya never commanded her wolf to attack. Nymeria just responded to the threat Jof posed to Arya and went to protect her. In fact, Arya called Nymeria off (if she hadn't, Jof might not have survived to tell his version of the tale.) Now, of course, the king didn't see that part, Jof probably said "set upon" too, and Sansa didn't deny it. But in actual truth, Arya was in danger, Nymeria reacted. No commands were given.

[alhoon]

Yes. And Jof was for no reason physically torturing a little boy. Just because he could.
And Nymeria forced him to drop his sword, before he would cut Arya in half. Arya acted in self defense getting his sword.

So?!? He's the royal heir, so the above is "translated" as: A little girl set her wolf on the royal prince after hitting him in the back and then threatened him at sword point.
That is, unless someone dares to say otherwise.

You see one of the bad things in absolute monarchy is that the monarch owns you. If he decides to kill you slowly you aren't allowed to put a hand up in self defense. If he drops his knife after he cuts your fingers and commands you to give it back to him, you're supposed to pick it up with your mouth and hand it over to him, so he can continue butchering you up.
I'm not sure Jof is above what I mentioned BTW.

Anyway, Arya wasn't allowed to help the boy, and she wasn't allowed to stop Jof from cutting off her head.

EDIT: As I wait for episode 6, I keep reading WoT again. I'm in the end of book 2 and I have to say, I prefer it from the GoT. GoT is very good indeed, but the for me, WoT is better. Each to each own it seems.
If anything, there are more parts in WoT that I have my hair standing on edge and heart racing than GoT. Not that there aren't such things in GoT.
And to return to the topic: a pity... because in the show those things don't seem so... monumental. They lose for some reason a lot of their bite or steel or awe.
Like the Eyrie on top of a taaaaall mountain seeming just a white specle of candlelight from the bridge. That thing is 3 miles or so in height. People there should have altitude sickness. Or the fight where Tyrion fights to save Catellyn from 3 bandits, not understanding why his feet take him there instead of a place to hide.

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Like when Syrio faces 5 armored soldiers + a kingsguard with a stick to give time to Arya to escape, knowing fully well that he can only delay the kingsguard. Or when Ned more-or-less says his goodbuys to the King, writting down his last wishes while Robert jokes about being killed by a pig, or the sheer pervertion of Cersei telling Stark how she killed her firstborn and why it's so... "natural" to make babies with her twin. I went to wash my face after that. It made me feel dirty for reading it.

[alhoon]

And to return to the topic: a pity... because in the show those things don't seem so... monumental. They lose for some reason a lot of their bite or steel or awe.

What did I tell you? They butchered Ned's wake-up scene. Sure many of the important things were there (some overly simplified) but not the heart-warming things I liked so much.

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Sure there was a couple of lines to show the audience that they're friends ("You're the bro I chose") but not the long talk with Stark mentioning the bastards and Robert kinda embarassed/proud of his children and "complaining" about the prostitute chosing the name Bara and other things I remembered so fondly.
Also while in the show Robert put Cersei in (well beneath) her place it was longer in the book. He looks an insane, drunken man that snaps into decisions and out of them in the show.

They ruined one of my best memories. Yeah, I thought I have watched that too. The king wore red in my memory though.

Not to mention they didn't mention how Ned knew Jaime fled the city?

However, towards the end, the scene was far better than the books. Shorter with less unecessary drama and with exactly what needed to make the logic leap.
It will be a week of agony till I see how they conveyed the most important dialogue in the book. If they don't put it in word for perverted word, I'm suing the channel!

Daenerys:
Interesting. I think I should read my book about a couple of things there when I get the chance.

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There has to be a reason she decided to place the dragon egg on embers. Not to mention that I've heard that as the books progress dragons made an appearance. "There are dragons and other things but the protagonists don't know of them". If I'm allowed a guess... she'll have dragonlings soon along with a Dothraki horde.
Well, now that I've finished Ned's storyline I thought I could keep myself from reading the other storylines. Time will tell.

In the show, it seems as her brother suddenly sees her child as a threat to his rule.
Well, further in the scene, it seems as he's finally getting it that he's not to be a king and that nobody gives a damn about him or what he wants.
Edit: Well he didn't take that well. He seems to have a deathwish threatening the Khal's pregnant wife. No blood in the city? No worries. A fitting crown that men would be afraid to behold. I'll read that in the book for certain.
I had a ghost once of somebody bad that was killed with molten silver over his eyes. Perhaps I got the idea from someone else now that I think of it. A pity there aren't any ghosts.

Question: Daenarys seems correct there though. When she handled the hot eggs she wasn't burned, although at the time I thought she was just handling them from the not burning side. Strange.

Bran:

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Did Robb really had trouble dealing with 4 ragclad brigands that came at him one at a time?

Tyrion:
Well, since he's my favorite (along with Arya) you can understand that I'll read today's scenes of him too. I'm sure they're done quite well, but the real thing would be longer and has more time to sink in. The difference between drinking nice ice-tea in a couple of gulps and sipping a very nice cup of hot tea sip by sip. Both quench your thirst but the hot tea also keeps you warm.

Robert (?!?):

What a spoiler that was there? That is, if the producers got it right BTW.

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The lannister guy seems over-eager to give the king his extra-strong wine. And Barrister is watching. That whole fight with his bro and "making the eight" actually was a red herring to hide that propably.
But I don't remember the Lannister valets being in service of the king that day. Whatever

Hand's business:
Well actually dealing with the villagers was IMHO handled better in the show than in the book. After a looong charade of how they turn things worse, they made that one better. The important parts were there and they jumped in the conclussion without the whole fuss in the books. It was good to shorten that scene.
On the other hand, they exagerated some things and left the political ramifications out.

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Well, after all those political ramifications didn't play much of a role in the end since events caught up and surpassed those things omitted

Sansa and Jof:
No, that didn't happen. Well, a good save for the scenes omitted anyway.
Also, what Jof apologizes for? I can't remember a single instance in the series so far that he has been rude to her.

One thing's for certain: It certainly feels as they're rushing things up. 550 minutes and they can't fit the whole thing in? Oh well, they're still doing an increadibly good adaption.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

What did I tell you? They butchered Ned's wake-up scene. ...They ruined one of my best memories.

That's always the trouble with an adaptation. There's only so much time to fit things in, it's always going to feel rushed. (and in this case, more rushed than usual since they only ordered 10 episodes for the first book.) But remember the mantra: the book is still there. The memories can't be taken away.

Not to mention they didn't mention how Ned knew Jaime fled the city?

Yeah, one has to assume as he lay bleeding, he saw Jaime ride for the city gates. I was more concerned that they left out his fever dreams. I hope it's not a spoiler to say that those are more important later on than they seem at first.

It will be a week of agony till I see how they conveyed the most important dialogue in the book. If they don't put it in word for perverted word, I'm suing the channel!

Brace yourself. It's not word for word (if you're talking about Cersei and Ned's chat). HBO put the next episode online on HBOGO.com a week early for HBO subscribers. Not sure how you're watching it over in Greece, but I assume they haven't done the same there. (I think they did it here because next Sunday is part of a holiday weekend here). So I tried watching it. The server crashed sunday night due to traffic an almost no one got to watch it. Last night I tried again and saw the first 15 minutes before the lag and crashing got to be too much to handle. Gave up and will watch the rest next week. But that scene is great, just abbreviated, so brace yourself.


Daenerys:

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There has to be a reason she decided to place the dragon egg on embers.

It happens a little later in the book, (chapter 54) after Viserys's crowning. According to my summary, "She suddenly eyes her dragon eggs and gets a strange idea." I don't recall if there was any more to it than that.

If I'm allowed a guess... she'll have dragonlings soon along with a Dothraki horde.

You are allowed to guess. I won't answer, though.

In the show, it seems as her brother suddenly sees her child as a threat to his rule.

He is wising up. Who are the Dothraki more likely to rally behind, the child of the Khal or the Khal's whiny brother-in-law.

A fitting crown that men would be afraid to behold. I'll read that in the book for certain.

It was even more gruesome in my imagination.

Question: Daenarys seems correct there though. When she handled the hot eggs she wasn't burned, although at the time I thought she was just handling them from the not burning side. Strange.

Not sure that the non-burning part was in the book. Neither was the "The bath is too hot, my lady" scene back in episode 1, but both are derived from something that is in the book. I will say no more.

Bran:

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Did Robb really had trouble dealing with 4 ragclad brigands that came at him one at a time?

In the book, there are more of them, and they are less of a joke. But also Bran and Robb's wolves helped out. It's becoming clear that the dogs that play the wolves were harder to train than expected, and they are being downplayed in the show.

Tyrion:
One thing I liked better in the show was Mord, the jailer. Hilariously surreal.

Robert (?!?):

What a spoiler that was there? That is, if the producers got it right BTW.

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The lannister guy seems over-eager to give the king his extra-strong wine. And Barrister is watching. That whole fight with his bro and "making the eight" actually was a red herring to hide that propably.
But I don't remember the Lannister valets being in service of the king that day. Whatever

The hunt wasn't shown directly in the book, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went down. There were more people with them, though. We can just assume in the show that this small group splintered off from the rest.



Hand's business:

Well actually dealing with the villagers was IMHO handled better in the show than in the book. After a looong charade of how they turn things worse, they made that one better.

The one thing I thought was missing here is that in the book, the Mountain is identified by the villagers. In the show, Ned goes way too far with the little evidence he's given. (passing a death sentence without confirming the identity of the accused?

Sansa and Jof:

No, that didn't happen. Well, a good save for the scenes omitted anyway.

Agreed. I thought it was a very good way to get TV!Sansa back into alignment Book!Sansa in terms of her feelings for Joff. She needs to be on his side for what's coming.

Also, what Jof apologizes for? I can't remember a single instance in the series so far that he has been rude to her.

1. yells for her not to touch him and to leave after he's bitten.
2. puts her on the spot to confirm his lies in front of his parents.
3. does nothing to save Lady.
4. snubs her smile with a sneer at the tourney.

[alhoon]

About Joff and Sansa... yeah, alright. Compared to the real Jof that seemed trifle.

Good memory about Daeneris in episode 1. I have completely forgot about it.

About Mord... obviously. That's was also good. In the book it mentions him once I think. No more.

About episode 7: Ehh... so it's up already? Why I can't watch it then? Will it be available for me next week or not because it's holiday there?

EDIT: " Sorry, this video is not avaliable, but we will update latter… "
Let's hope "later" = "in a couple of hours"/"tomorrow" not "in a week". Usually they allow us to watch them 1 day later, not a week later. It's just unfair if it aired for you and not for us.
Especially since I had to watch 346 ads or so before I reached the "MWAHAHAHAHA! Later sucker!" part.

However the "you win or you die" part of the title is quite telling, isn't it?

[alhoon]

What did I tell you? They butchered Ned's wake-up scene. ...They ruined one of my best memories.

That's always the trouble with an adaptation. There's only so much time to fit things in, it's always going to feel rushed. (and in this case, more rushed than usual since they only ordered 10 episodes for the first book.) But remember the mantra: the book is still there. The memories can't be taken away

To be sincere the two have merged into my mind. It's confusing sometimes to remember what was there and what was not. I was discussing about the scene with friends today that don't have the book and they said that either they didn't consider Jaime leaving was important or that Ned propably guessed he left.
And they haven't realized that Lannisters and Tullies(along with Starks) are actually in a war while Robert tries to stop it... before actually deciding to go hunting. I had to remind them that the Mountain butchered villagers of the Tullies, that Stark and Lannister oathmen killed each other, Tyrion Lannister is captive and held for unproven crimes, Jaime had to flee the city and Ned was injured.

EDIT:

Yayzzz! I found this screenshot:
http://imgclub.org/images/gameoftlt.jpg
So... The talk is too short to be the whole thing.

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-Was it so short till Robert's death? Or it's because both events were monumental that I remember then further appart? From minute 8 to 22 and there are two heavy scenes?
- The scene with Ned's & Robert's farewells was far darker in my imagination. Brazier light but somewhat less.
-It seems that the episode ends with Ned being captured.

Still not available.
It's so unfair that I'm not allowed to watch it.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

About episode 7: Ehh... so it's up already? Why I can't watch it then? Will it be available for me next week or not because it's holiday there?

No idea how you're watching it or what will be available for you. I assume ep7 will be available for you at it's usual time at least. It will air on TV here on Sunday, despite the holiday. They just put it on hbogo.com a week early to promote that service. I just think the timing of which episode to put up early was because of the holiday. They don't expect huge ratings for this ep because people will be vacationing, so why not use that one to promote their online service instead? (just my guess).

Anyway, I tried again to watch it, this time with a hardline ethernet connection instead of wireless. Still couldn't make it past the halfway point. It's either my computer is slow or their service stinks. Got up to

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Robert's deathbed and Ned's altering the will

but then gave up because it was so choppy. I'll let my Tivo catch it on sunday and watch it monday night probably.

It's just unfair if it aired for you and not for us.

Don't feel bad, many in the U.S. can't see it either. In order to use hbogo, your service provider has to support it and many don't.

To be sincere the two have merged into my mind.

Yeah, like you said about LOTR, the actors are starting to replace my visions of the characters.

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-Was it so short till Robert's death? Or it's because both events were monumental that I remember then further appart? From minute 8 to 22 and there are two heavy scenes?

the episode is pretty fast and furious. A lot to get through and only 220 minutes to do it in.

[alhoon]

So... can I join their HBO-something and watch it? Or it's just an American thing?
The site I watch the episodes says it's out but it's still " Sorry, this video is not avaliable, but we will update latter… "
But it's latter already.
Why did I have to watch all the advertisement then? It propably goes with TV time, not when they give it out.

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How was the Robert-Bye-Bye scene? Monumental scene too and I would like it to be good. There are 10-15 short scenes in the book that make it so good, making your hair start on end etc. That's one of them.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

So... can I join their HBO-something and watch it? Or it's just an American thing?

There's no joining. If you subscribe to HBO, through your cable TV service, and if your cable TV service supports HBOGO, you log in using your cable TV account info. So yeah, it's probably American only. Sorry.

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How was the Robert-Bye-Bye scene?

Hard to say, since the connection was so bad. It seemed pretty good, though. I surprised at how well done Joffrey's goodbye to his "dad" was. That kid can really act...

[alhoon]

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How was the Robert-Bye-Bye scene?

I surprised at how well done Joffrey's goodbye to his "dad" was. That kid can really act...

Emmm... the what? Are we talking about a different scene or they just added Joffrey to the scene when Robert was about to die? That's a major change, because then he wouldn't be surprised when Ed said he was the reagent etc. Even if they go by the "Yeah, I'm the new king so I don't care what my father told you" ... it's an important change.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Emmm... the what?

no biggie. just a minor beat added in. doesn't change anything except maybe your perception of Joffrey.

[alhoon]

I still get (after all the commercials) a "MWAHAHAHAHA! Sucker!"
OK, actually a " Sorry, this video is not avaliable, but we will update latter… "
Why they say "we will update later" instead of "See you next Sunday?!?!" I think it's pretty clear they intend to show it on Sunday. I'm really getting frustrated here. I check a couple of times each day, see stupid commercials about USA shows and programs along with investment opportunities and furniture and then get a "MWHAHAHAHAHA! Sucker!"

EDIT: Early sunday and it's still not available. Has it been shown officially in USA or not yet?

[alhoon]

WATCHED! ! ! !
Scene by scene analysis of the most important episode:

Scene 1
Ehh... what? Not in the book. Not a bad scene though.
Papa Lannister seems... sane. What he says makes sense. Pragmatic but makes sense.

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30K? Half their forces? :0 Haven't read that in the book, although I didn't read Catelyn's PoV.

The most important scene:
Well, it was there but with kids gloves on.

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As you predicted, no mention that she killed her son, and she did look away seemingly somewhat ashamed while in the book she wasn't flincing, she was talking about incest and killing the rightful heir in the womb as it was the most natural thing in the world.
They changed her to the better. Well, she's still neutral evil but not Darklord material. They gave her a couple of redeemable qualities that she didn't have in the book.
1. She didn't mentioned killing her child so with the "I love my children" thing we're left to believe that this child she mentioned in episode 1 was loved too.
2. She didn't went smiling into the "when he's in me, we're complete as we were meant to be" thing, but showed some shame and offered the Tagaryens as an excuse, not an explanation. Important difference.
3. She mentioned she loved Robert once, as she has admited to him too, love poisoned with jealousy. Not pure envy and hate as in the book. In the show she hated the Starks because Lyanne's ghost stole her husband in her wedding night, not just because she came second. Another small difference that still steers the boat to a different port. And she seemed... angry with that in the show, not contemptuous looking down on Stark
4. No seduction and tender touches of "sure, I love my brother but he's away like your wife and all this talk of intrigue... come on, I'm in heat and you would be well rewarded". I really, really doupt that she actually craved Ned at that moment, but from what I read about her in the book she would still not forget that he refused her. I'm not so sure that she was strongly against his execution politics or not. She seems the type of woman that says "Women may forgive those that took advantage of an opportunity, but never one that lost the opportunity". OK, it may be confined on thrones etc but re-reading the scene her contempt for Robert began from that.
Remember, she mentions her wrath along with that he didn't take the throne himself.
Well, she's bat crazy, I give her that.

Littlefinger thing:
I can't believe they shortened the other scenes to add this trash. Yeah, we know he loves her.

Theon and the wildling:
Ehh... what? Where did that come from? I've skimmed looking for that deep in the book, well after the episode ends and nothing.
That appart:
Nice scene! Cool insight on the Wildlings + lot of info. That's a good addition. Worth losing a few words here and there.

The next most important scene:
More or less exceptional IMHO. One the best intepretations IMO of the monumental scenes in the show so far. I have to say that except things like "it was night!" it had all it needed to have and more. It conveyed the brooding feeling, the touching friendship, the regrets.
I can say that they have saved themselves from my lawsuit just for that.
May I even dare to say... it was better than the book? Sure some important things were missing but more or less they were given elsewhere in the show, so the real thing could sink in undistructed. I even liked the way they changed a bit the order of things said and since they couldn't convey thoughts the words chosen instead of those actually spoken.
I took a break there to savor it, and then watched it again. I had the book open the second time. Yeah, I liked it more than the book.
In hindsight, I can forgive the de-pervertion of the most important scene. It's a show and there are limits how far they can take it. IMO that's the reason they aged the children a few years.

Daenarys:
She has her husband around her little finger, doesn't she?
Strange how she turned suspicious.
Well, I can't say I see the poor Khal fellow surviving to see his oaths fulfilled.

Nightwatch:
I can't really avoid any SLine, can I? Well, I'm pretty sure I'll manage not reading this one. So far I managed not reading Catelyn/Tyrion SLine too.

Ned again (with king's bro and Littlefinger) + final scene:

Again, kinda better than in the book. Less "duck-and-weave" around words and more to the point. They upped the ante a bit, but I think that was their intention. After all it's a show that tired from work people come home to watch, so they may not remember who's who and what they want.

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Also to be sincere I'm glad they got rid of the scene with the little council meeting that actually did nothing since they didn't have the time
My only gripe was that they omitted the part where the children of the Queen are openly wondering why Ned says that Jof isn't the rightful king and he evens seems to be considering it.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Finally got to watch it all the way though Tuesday, myself.

Ehh... what? Not in the book. Not a bad scene though.

I liked it too. I wish there was some explanation of why the richest man in the kingdoms is doing his own butchery, though. I suspect the symbolism of carving up a stag was the only reason they felt they needed, but it was puzzling.

The most important scene:Well, it was there but with kids gloves on.

Still powerful, though, I thought.

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As you predicted, no mention that she killed her son, and she did look away seemingly somewhat ashamed while in the book she wasn't flincing, she was talking about incest and killing the rightful heir in the womb as it was the most natural thing in the world.

Hmmm... I didn't see shame there. I'll have to go back and look.

1. She didn't mentioned killing her child so with the "I love my children" thing we're left to believe that this child she mentioned in episode 1 was loved too.

Funny, I had the opposite thought. I think we have to assume she did kill her son. The son did exist since she spoke of it with Robert; she didn't make it up for Cat's sake. So if we believe that her adoration of Robert turned to loathing on their wedding night when he called Lyanna's name, by the time this added kid was born (9 months after that night, maybe? if she never let him near her again) the hate would already be in full swing. And she still says "thank the gods" that the (surviving) kids are all Jaime's. So I'm left thinking that TV!Cersei killed her firstborn post-birth rather than before.

4. No seduction and tender touches of "sure, I love my brother but he's away like your wife and all this talk of intrigue... come on, I'm in heat and you would be well rewarded". I really, really doupt that she actually craved Ned at that moment

Absolutely. Seduction is just one of the tools in her arsenal, I think. No way it would work on Ned, but at that point, she had to try something to save her skin.

I can't believe they shortened the other scenes to add this trash. Yeah, we know he loves her.

I think the were trying to give a bit more of his character, while fulfilling their "nudity quota" for HBO. I agree, it was terrible, but if you can manage to listen to what he's saying, it does work on two levels, just clumsily.

Nice scene! Cool insight on the Wildlings + lot of info. That's a good addition. Worth losing a few words here and there.

Agreed, some wildling info, some Theon info, and a well done addition. Best lines: "She's our guest." "I thought she was a prisoner." "Are the two mutually exclusive in your experience?"

More or less exceptional IMHO.

Agreed. Mark Addy really shone as Robert, here, and throughout.

Daenarys:
Strange how she turned suspicious.

Jorah seemed to be suspicious first, if you're talking about the wine merchant.

Well, I can't say I see the poor Khal fellow surviving to see his oaths fulfilled.

Really? What makes you say that?

Ned again (with king's bro and Littlefinger) + final scene:

I was literally on the edge of my seat, despite knowing exactly what would happen. Spectacular job of making it intense and suspensful. Really, really well done.

[alhoon]

Khal: He seems to dispensable for story element. Kinda looks like the "I'm gonna die so the protagonist may fulfil her role better" type. Daenarys still needs him and she seems to not mind him, I wouldn't say she loves him from the show though (and I haven't read her part in the book) while he seems increadibly twisted around her little finger.
Once the baby comes he will be even less needed in the story, while his death would open opportunities for fine story lines, like some Dothraki infighting etc.

PS. Everyone I spoke with that watches the shows agree on one thing: The dragons will hatch.

About the de-pervertion of the earlier scene: The book specifically describes she wasn't looking away. In the show she turns her head.

Last scene: Well, I can't say it held so much power for me.