Café de Nuit

...we're treating the Feywild as a similar border plane between the positive energy plane and the prime material. The dreaded domains of Ravenloft are its opposite number, between the negative energy plane and the prime. Elements of the Shadowfell can become domains within Ravenloft.

Linkypoo: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... l/20130701

Hmm. So far, I'm not impressed with D&D Next over all. However, it might end up being a better fit for Ravenloft than 3-4E have been. The heroic fantasy focus of the recent editions and the awesome, combat/heroic focus of the class abilities, made it hard to tell a believable, immersive horror story.

Next has been spectacularly unimpressive to me so far. As for fitting Ravenloft, I don't know if its strong 1E, 'back to basics' vibe will help it much there. Ravenloft and D&D have always been uneasy bedfellows; sometimes that tension works, sometimes it doesn't. My current approach to Ravenloft is to approach it in one or both of two ways:

1. Stick with the canon, embracing the Gothic Horror side of the tension, and change the system to match. FATE, SAGA, Savage Worlds or BRP are my current prime candidates here.

2. Take a system and change the canon and tone to match--basically embrace the "D&D does Gothic Adventure" side of the tradition instead of the "Gothic Horror" side. I have some scattered musings on this for 4E, although I can't quite fit dragonborn, shardlings or some of the other more exotic races in, though. Tieflings and half-orcs fit nicely into Hazlan, though, as replacements for the Mulan and Rashemi, and devas in Sri Raji. On a different note, Necropolis finally acquires an actual purpose as the Shadowfell parallel to Il Aluk or Darkon as a whole.

Cool. I haven't really kept up on the D&D Next stuff as much as I'd like, but I'm glad to see their goal of pleasing "everyone" extends to the planar setting. It just makes sense to leave room for the various different takes that have been in the different editions. After all, the planes are infinite, so there's plenty of room for "near" and "far" versions of each plane, etc. Ravenloft as the opposite of the feywild makes a certain amount of sense, though it puts the shadow fey in an odd spot.

I do disagree about Spelljammer, though. While I can see why the average Ravenloft or Eberron fan might not want Spelljammer butting in to say "surprise, you're connected!" It seems to me that hopping from setting to setting (world to world) would be a major selling point for Spelljammer. I think it's fine as a connection between worlds, as long as it doesn't pollute those worlds too much. The Ravenloft DM (Greyhawk DM, etc.) is free to ignore Spelljammer, but the Spelljammer DM would be remiss to ignore the potential of trips to the various other settings.

Matthew L. Martin wrote:Ravenloft and D&D have always been uneasy bedfellows; sometimes that tension works, sometimes it doesn't.

That's my feeling, pretty much - DnD makes assumptions of cinematic epic fantasy role play which doesn't serve the low-level, isolate-and-terrify mood of RL very well.

RL could work really well in a dedicated horror ruleset - I almost plumped for CoC as my campaign default and my "GM specialty" system back in 2008. The other thematic system I thought about using was the WoD system, although I can no longer recall if I looked at the NWoD or OWoD.

In the end, universality won out and it ultimately came down to a judgment call between HERO System, GURPS, and TriStat dX.

HuManBing wrote:

Matthew L. Martin wrote:Ravenloft and D&D have always been uneasy bedfellows; sometimes that tension works, sometimes it doesn't.

That's my feeling, pretty much - DnD makes assumptions of cinematic epic fantasy role play which doesn't serve the low-level, isolate-and-terrify mood of RL very well.

A thousand times this.

RL could work really well in a dedicated horror ruleset - I almost plumped for CoC as my campaign default and my "GM specialty" system back in 2008. The other thematic system I thought about using was the WoD system, although I can no longer recall if I looked at the NWoD or OWoD.

In the end, universality won out and it ultimately came down to a judgment call between HERO System, GURPS, and TriStat dX.

Deadlands is a system specifically designed for horror story telling, and I think it does the job damn well. (I know I'm like a broken record on this front, but if there was a list of three things that never got a fair shake, it would be Firefly, Deadlands, and Aqua.)

I've got props to you HB for taking Ravenloft into a different system, and if I ever have the time, I think I may do the same.

Holy crap, I just looked at Deadlands on wiki. It looks fantastic for a Blood-style Gothic Western campaign, of gun slingers and cultists and strange extradimensional beasts running around in the service of a dreaming god.

I'll see if I can get a digital copy off e23 or Paizo. Thanks for the pointer!

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Cool. I haven't really kept up on the D&D Next stuff as much as I'd like, but I'm glad to see their goal of pleasing "everyone" extends to the planar setting. It just makes sense to leave room for the various different takes that have been in the different editions. After all, the planes are infinite, so there's plenty of room for "near" and "far" versions of each plane, etc. Ravenloft as the opposite of the feywild makes a certain amount of sense, though it puts the shadow fey in an odd spot.

I do disagree about Spelljammer, though. While I can see why the average Ravenloft or Eberron fan might not want Spelljammer butting in to say "surprise, you're connected!" It seems to me that hopping from setting to setting (world to world) would be a major selling point for Spelljammer. I think it's fine as a connection between worlds, as long as it doesn't pollute those worlds too much. The Ravenloft DM (Greyhawk DM, etc.) is free to ignore Spelljammer, but the Spelljammer DM would be remiss to ignore the potential of trips to the various other settings.

As I said in the other thread, I think you could use the ToUD to explain Ravenloft now being a major plane. It kind of works and explains why that event had so much foreboding.

In regards to Spelljammer, he actually makes a good point. The original Spelljammer spent a lot of time on connecting existing settings (like connecting Greyhawk to Forgotten Realms, etc.). There's plenty of potential in a fantasy space setting to be its own setting, but that potential was never realized. As long as they don't negate the ability to tie different settings if you want to, or retcon the earlier works out of existence, I'm fine with them not focusing on that part of Spelljammer.

Gate works pretty well from hoping from Prime material to prime material; I don't like the idea of spaceships.

alhoon wrote:Gate works pretty well from hoping from Prime material to prime material; I don't like the idea of spaceships.

And some people do, so why leave them out? It's a legitimate D&D setting that has its fans, and WotC is trying to be inclusive as possible.

Rules-independent, this is still exciting. This is the first I've cared about the new edition, all because there's official mention of our favorite setting. Let's trust them to put the right people in charge and read what they give us. New content is ripe for the picking, even if an individual DM can only use a bit of it. I'm sure my canon roots are showing, but they've got me on the hook for one book already just to satisfy curiosity.