Using Nidala and Bonemaw

[Terminusvitae]

And that's the way I look at it because quite frankly she's hit that critical point of being a darklord. Now it's interesting that she's the least evil dark lord of the dark lords unless you prescribe closer to the idea that Adam was dealt an unfair hand in his his own dark lordship. I need to find a way to have her being dead to the screams of the dying while still questioning the absence of the voice of her god.

The first leg of my current campaign was in Nidala, actually, and I ran into much the same problem that you have. Ultimately, I just couldn't come up with a believable way to keep Elena numb to the suffering she wrought and Belenus's silence in the first place (of course, in this campaign, Belenus is an unforgiving, one-mistake-and-you're-stripped-of-my-grace deity in Nidala, bearing an intentional and uncanny resemblance to Miss Faith-Hold, herself), as my interpretation of her curse and her past heroism always led me to the conclusion that she was going to reach a true crisis of faith at some point. Her status as a darklord has always felt little more than temporary to me, and that Ebonbane would end up being the Big Bad in all the Shadowlands eventually, either through the elimination or simply the release of both Morgoroth and Elena.

I went around the whole thing for weeks, trying to find a way to keep this corner of the Dread Realms as static, unchanging, and hopeless as the Dark Powers prefer, but as I was fleshing out things that were happening in other parts of the Land of Mists, I couldn't find a way to make it all jibe without deposing Elena, at the least, and still do with Nidala even half of what I had in mind. In the end, she had to go, so Theokos took matters into his own hands, proxy-sponsored a massive insurrection, and broke both Elena's spirit and her faith in an incredible bloodbath and an exposure of all her brutality and lies. The players, inexplicably, decided they were going to try to help her see the error of her ways and got her catatonic self out of Nidala after a couple of failed assassination attempts. Now, much like Nathan Timothy, I have her wandering the lands and looking for her place in, and it's the players' actions that will influence her either to find a new path to righteousness or an all-consuming hunger for destruction and slaughter. They've been accomplishing enough now that word of their deeds is starting to reach quite a few places in the Core, and even when she doesn't meet them on the road or on a mission, she still hears about what they're doing...as do forces who don't quite have such a rosy view of a bunch of people running around, upsetting the apple cart.

Gah. I didn't mean to turn that into that long of a post, especially when all it amounted to was a confession that I couldn't come up with a solution that didn't stretch the believability of willful blindness, even if said blindness was severe enough to lead a person to becoming a darklord. Perhaps it could be as simple as surrounding her with nothing but bad advisers and yes-men who all have their own reasons for maintaining the status quo; that was all I could come up with that would seem even somewhat plausible, but you may have better luck.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

You raise a good point. Elena, as presented, is difficult to imagine as a stable, long-term situation. And that's OK. I think a lot of people using Nidala seem to involve her being deposed or falling out of darklordship, etc., which can be an exciting adventure or series of adventures. She's unique in that she's one of the "expendable" darklords, but not simply a boss-monster to be defeated like most of the others that fit that role.

But it's probably Banemaw that's the issue to her long-term viability, I think. The "overboard zealot" character who kills the guilty and the innocent alike has two long-term versions that I see:
1) A true-believer, who thinks what she's doing is right, and that either these "innocents" are actually guilty and deserve their fate, or that they are unfortunate, but necessary, collateral damage.
2) An opportunist, who is using the trappings of her religion to maintain her own power and privilege, and doesn't care about who has to die to maintain that illusion.

Now clearly, Elena as presented is firmly in the first camp, but Banemaw is the sort of tactic that the second would use. If she truly believes every person in those villages she burns to be tainted by impurity, why the deception? Why not publicly condemn them and let their deaths serve as an example? Her doubts could be a long-term part of option 1. She can wrestle with those privately as much as she likes. Her over-strict adherence to her warped interpretation of Belenus's dogma could be legitimate misguided belief. But she knows Banemaw is false. She knows she's lying and that the only point of that lie is to scare the people into clinging to her for protection. That can't last long without throwing her into option 2.

So as much as I love the concept of Banemaw, I think "he" needs a bit of changing if you want Elena to become a more standard, "stagnant," eternal darklord. Maybe it wasn't her idea. Maybe Theokos or some other advisor put that bit of propaganda out there without her knowledge? I dunno, she wouldn't stand for that for long once she found out. Maybe Banemaw is more of a spiritual concept, derived from Elena's dogma? A shadowy devil-like spirit dragon that infests the hearts of the weak-willed, who needs to be purged with fire... That way she can still own up to destroying the villages herself, but also blame Banemaw for the necessity, as well as the people who allowed Banemaw into their hearts with their sinful ways.

[High Priest Mikhal]

I need to find a way to have her being dead to the screams of the dying while still questioning the absence of the voice of her god.

Okay, that's (horribly enough) explained in serial killers and mass murderers who enjoy the act but then feel remorse and doubt after the fact. When Elena is killing and torturing "evil" (since her detect evil ability detects strong emotions focused on her, but she doesn't know it), either individually or in large groups, she feels justified in ignoring their cries since "they're obviously evil." Afterwards the doubts kick in. She believes in her actions when she's doing them but afterwards it's a very different story.

Okay, Gonzoron, I admit we have gone off-topic. But to reconcile Banemaw we have to establish why, in a given campaign, Elena does what she does.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Okay, Gonzoron, I admit we have gone off-topic. But to reconcile Banemaw we have to establish why, in a given campaign, Elena does what she does.

Nope, I agree, that's still on topic. Proceed...

[divinedragonslayer]

I see her traveling down a third road if she was truly deluded into thin king she was acting in the greatest good. Elana doesn't torture those who she doesn't wholeheartedly believe to be evil. I see her especially using flames or water she has 'blessed' in executions which happen often by her hand. By these executions she is cleansing the person so they may go to Belenus after death.

I almost see her rationalizing the death of innocent people as them being sent straight to Belenus rather than suffering corruption here on earth. That's how she could rationalize the deaths of children without feeling the soul crushing agony. Especially if after these massacres she consecrates the ground and buries the victims, thus in her mind.

By the way I wanted to say I think I have an idea for Banemaw. Banemaw itself is actually a wagon built to look like a dragon. It is operated by for to six soldiers inside the wagon. For it's 'breath' attack I'm thinking a modified dragon pack. While this would not be the most lifelike dragon it would work to scare the populous.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I almost see her rationalizing the death of innocent people as them being sent straight to Belenus rather than suffering corruption here on earth. That's how she could rationalize the deaths of children without feeling the soul crushing agony. Especially if after these massacres she consecrates the ground and buries the victims, thus in her mind.

I can see that too, but it still doesn't jibe with Banemaw. If she's not doing anything wrong in her mind, why hide it? And also, if she sees it that way, why not just wipe out everyone in her domain? The good will go to heaven, the bad to hell, and she'll have sent them all where they belong. Obviously an empty Nidala is no fun to play in, so she's got to have a reason not to do that.

By the way I wanted to say I think I have an idea for Banemaw. Banemaw itself is actually a wagon built to look like a dragon. It is operated by for to six soldiers inside the wagon. For it's 'breath' attack I'm thinking a modified dragon pack. While this would not be the most lifelike dragon it would work to scare the populous.

yup, the mechanical Banemaw came up in those previous threads, and in my campaign I ended up using something similar (an illusion projector. the illusion was magical, the projector was clockwork). It fit my needs (to have something concrete as proof, that could also be destroyed by the party, as well as to give my wizard and steampunk tinkerer something to do, while keeping Elena directly involved in the killing) but I wasn't super thrilled with having to use it. If you need it, go for it, but it's the sort of thing I wouldn't put in a Gazetteer of Nidala if I were writing one.

[The Lesser Evil]

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But it's probably Banemaw that's the issue to her long-term viability, I think. The "overboard zealot" character who kills the guilty and the innocent alike has two long-term versions that I see:
1) A true-believer, who thinks what she's doing is right, and that either these "innocents" are actually guilty and deserve their fate, or that they are unfortunate, but necessary, collateral damage.
2) An opportunist, who is using the trappings of her religion to maintain her own power and privilege, and doesn't care about who has to die to maintain that illusion.

Now clearly, Elena as presented is firmly in the first camp, but Banemaw is the sort of tactic that the second would use. If she truly believes every person in those villages she burns to be tainted by impurity, why the deception? Why not publicly condemn them and let their deaths serve as an example? Her doubts could be a long-term part of option 1. She can wrestle with those privately as much as she likes. Her over-strict adherence to her warped interpretation of Belenus's dogma could be legitimate misguided belief. But she knows Banemaw is false. She knows she's lying and that the only point of that lie is to scare the people into clinging to her for protection. That can't last long without throwing her into option 2.

I don't think fanatic #1 and fanatic #2 necessarily preclude each other. It's not so hard for one to use so much deception and rationalization that it becomes self-deception. Get into a pattern of painting people into black-and-white, absolutist boxes and soon enough it can become reflexive. #1 can lead to #2 when #1 realizes he's put himself up against a wall (both theologically and practically) and now goes into sheer self-preservation, selfish mode. And #2 can turn into #1 when #2 "becomes the mask" and becomes immersed in the role they've created, perhaps as a way of justifying his selfish behavior in his own mind.

Furthermore, I think there are other options for darklords other than to be temporary placeholders or forever stagnant in one mode of operation. Certainly many darklords are static, but others can emerge and evolve very dynamically and still maintain their positions of power/evil (Hazlik's whole modus operandi did a complete 180 with the Grand Conjunction and his shift in policy from banning magic to encouraging it.)

Tying the discussion back to Faithhold, I see the core of Faithhold's curse as being cognitive dissonance. It’s a very painful curse, but also by necessity a very dynamic one. I can see Faithhold as a cyclical darklord, in that she may cycle between periods of #1, #2, and some combination of the two as she wavers from idealism/fervor and despair/self-preservation. Part of Faithhold's problem is that she's not so much of a psychopath that the deaths of the innocent do not go without some weight upon her soul. (And I think this contrast between her ideals and her actions is the reason why she is as attractive as a darklord to the Dark Powers). Like Baron Evensong (darklord of Liffe), she's probably gotten into a habit of judging people as with me or against me- essentially as tools, victims to be saved, or obstacles- objects more than people. Also like Evensong, she probably cares more for people/causes in the abstract than as individuals. However, unlike Evensong, her coldness to other people doesn't seem to the point that she does this without some sense of (admittedly possibly only subconsciously) guilt, shame, or remorse (as in, she's not a complete psychopath). Therefore she must come up with creative ways of rationalizing her behavior or even come up with ways she to (in her mind) minimize the harm she's doing.

One of the biggest tragedies of the middle ages was that the witch burnings and torture wasn't committed (at least officially) simply to punish the wicked or to extract information. Torture was a means of getting confessions and self-recrimination for evil acts the authority had already become convinced you had done. It was thought that a soul couldn't rest easy if the person hadn't admitted wrong-doing and recriminated her past actions. Similarly, witch burnings were thought to be last-chance attempts at soul purification. The tragedy of the situation is that people were performing these atrocities under the mantle of salvation (and probably justifying sadism while doing so.) If we take this seemingly implied perspective that a soul's fate before and up to death is fluid rather than simply static (punish the wicked, deliver the good to the deity) with Faithhold, then we have a reason and motivation for her to act the way she does.

If the evil that Faithhold most fears is self-damnation, it wouldn't be that hard for her to project her fears onto other people. Specifically, her greatest fears of damning herself (and probably others) turn into fear of other people damning themselves and others. Anything she could do to prevent that suddenly becomes a lot easier to justify. After all, what could possibly be worse than burning forever in the pit of fire? Of course, in keeping with her ends justify the means theme, she might think that some people can't be saved no matter what you can do. This unfortunate, but at least they can serve as examples for others not to follow their example. By demonizing and viciously punishing the "absolutely unrepentant", the largest number of other people may be saved.

Of course, there are probably periods when her doubt escapes to the surface. All the torture and killings leaves a stain upon her soul. Here is where we come to the invention of Banemaw. Banemaw could (in Faithhold's eyes) be an invention of mercy so much as social control. Banemaw and the paranoia the concept generates could be viewed as an alternative to controlling the masses through sheer intimidation and brute force alone. (You'll notice that Drakov has developed no external threat or theology to justify his rule like Faithhold has. I think a good reason for that is because he is much further along the psychopathy spectrum than Faithhold.) An external threat could theoretically galvanize the people so that she wouldn't necessarily need to punish them so much. Of course in practice it probably doesn't work this way- providing evidence for Banemaw requires some effort. This means the loss of lives. And so in attempting to become more merciful, the fallen paladin has ironically fallen even further from the path of righteousness.

With the ultimate failure of Banemaw as a policy to "save the people", Faithhold may for a time become despondent and hold onto her position for pure and conscious selfishness for a time (slipping into more of a fanatic #2). However, given time, every transgression can become rationalized. In her mind, she can't doubt herself- after all she doesn't know what the world would be like if she hadn't invented the Bonemaw myth. A world without Bonemaw could've been much worse. And maybe she can figure out something that will make up for it later, or so she (perhaps subconsciously) thinks.

[Manofevil]

I want you all to take a long listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z7oPwEAtFg Then consider Elena's darker motivations and Ravenloft's and wonder if we haven't found the origin of Banemaw.

[divinedragonslayer]

Gonzoron: I see your point about Banemaw being better a ghost in the night, but I was thinking something more to pacify the masses that Bonemaw is real. But that's probably best done by other means. You're right about not needing Bonemaw to justify her actions to the populous. I guess I didn't understand the role of Bonemaw and maybe I still don't. I appreciate your time and patience helping me understand Elana and Banemaw.

The Lesser Evil: To be honest that's the insight I really wanted for Elana. I see that cycle playing through her character. Perhaps I'm being a little too close minded but I see her always as Fanatic #1. It's that desperation that has pushed her into #2 at times and pushes her deeper without her realizing it. Banemaw is far more effective as a galvanizing tool rather than a punitive tool which I confused it for at first.

Perhaps it's more dynamic if Banemaw is nothing more than a vain attempt to hold together her crumbling rule and thus lead the people to salvation. Yes she does care for people rather than persons if that makes sense. An individual sacrifice is nothing compared to saving the people. It would make her both more dangerous and much more worthy of the title darklord. While she always is the consummate utterly faithful warrior doubt due to the silence along with the feeling power slipping through her hands is what pushes her down the darker path.

I thought I might've said it before, but I said that her method of execution either involves fire or water depending. This method enforces the purifying powers of both. Perhaps in doing so she's also trying to purify herself as you said, but I'd rather see what more insight I can get on the matter. Though one thing I truly believe is that through it all is that she is mot motivated by her unending quest to break the silence that Belenus has imposed.

Man of Evil: While I haven't watched the movie it's definitely something I need to watch, but I hadn't. My question has evolved from what is Banemaw to what is Banemaw's role in Nidala.



Reconciling Elana Faith-Hold And Banemaw
___________
In the end I think what it comes down to is the way I see her curse is that her god suddenly was lost to her. LI hate to liken something so brutal as mass torture and such to something as innocent as a child, but I'm honestly coming to compare Elana's situation to that of a child systematically ignored and neglected by a parent. Through all the brutality I honestly believe she believes that she's doing what is the greatest good. Her laws, rules, torture, and executions are nothing more than a cry in the dark for solace from the isolation. Granted her rampant witch hunts do not bring her any closer to Belenus.

I see her as showing that determined side to her people. One that shows the unshakable rock of Nidala, but her curse is those lingering doubts and questions in her mind. As much as she tortures others I see her torturing herself in the form of flagellation. This crisis of faith is as Lesser Evil said is cognitive dissonance. This has trickled down her followers thus causing the split in her clergy. I see three sects of Belenus forming; a neutral good, lawful, neutral, and a neutral evil sect of the church.

Most of the time she's too busy with foes real or imagined to notice the cracks of doubt shining through in her mind. Only when she sleeps or prays do those whispers of doubt come through most clearly. It's those whispers that tug at the very back of her mind.

As for Banemaw himself nothing is concrete. Cannon says that he's a boogie man that she uses .the boogieman as a cover for annihilating towns she deems evil only to bemoan the fact that it couldn't be stopped while I tend to think of the beast as something she uses to galvanize those to her cause. Maybe he's both. Maybe I can't see the forest for the trees. All I know is that he should not exist as a tangible force so to speak. Really I'm half thinking that Bonemaw aught to be a direct incarnation of the DPs. All I can figure out is what he's not.

As for my last sticking point Theokos.The ice devil disguised as a wizened old father figure to guide Elana. He is an agitator and manipulator. I see Elana both falling for his schemes and being just a bit too unpredictable to really control with any reliability. he has a few schemes and plots to corrupt the masses, but with interference from every direction he's doomed to be reactive to the situations.

[The Lesser Evil]

I want you all to take a long listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z7oPwEAtFg Then consider Elena's darker motivations and Ravenloft's and wonder if we haven't found the origin of Banemaw.

Oh, this gives me some wonderful ideas for yet another wonderful take on Faithhold. What I like about this link is the concept of a lie spreading like a highly infectious disease, even a contagion. To the point it bloats all out of proportion to what the original liar ever intended, until it begins cascading all around him like an avalanche. If I may take some ideas from the (seemingly unconnected to the current discussion) surreal psychological thriller/horror anime Paranoia Agent, a tale about the hysteria surrounding the brutal attacks of the legendary mystery delinquent “Little Slugger”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_Agent
The strange thing is that Slugger seems to attack those deeply in anguish and pushed up against a wall with nowhere to go…
Some plot spoilers for that anime:

VIEW CONTENT:

It turns out that Slugger is but a hoax, or at least started out that way. But then it grew all out of proportion and took on a life of its own perhaps somehow made manifest by belief much like the Bogeymen of Ravenloft (see Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends). It turns out that Slugger was the fabrication of a young girl to conceal from her overly harsh father her responsibility in an accident that killed her puppy. Later in her life she’s used the incident as inspiration to propel her into a successful career as a pokemon-esque character designer. But years later, it comes back to haunt her when it comes back again to get her out of trouble. Again, and again and again. And like a wildfire, it spreads to the rest of society.

Now, how is this connected to the conversation about Banemaw and Faithhold? Well, consider that Faithhold is something of a loose analogue to Joan of Arc seen through a glass darkly, put into a backdrop of knightly Arthurian romance. Joan of Arc claimed to be guided by visions where the saints and angels commanded her to support the French king against the onslaught of the English forces. Let’s take that part of the inspiration and apply to Faithhold but with a more sinister spin. Since we’re going for an environment of paranoia, let’s go with visions that are nightmarish like those that inspired the Salem Witch Trials. And since Banemaw is our (figurative bogeyman), let’s tie them to him.

Now, this for this alternate take on Elena Faithhold as a “visionary”, I’m thinking the foundations have to be set early on in her life (as opposed to first falling into corruption in the middle of the War on Evil). Early in life Faithhold might’ve experienced some traumatic experience where she had some culpability in the events that occurred. Like Slugger’s “creator” in Paranoia Agent, Faithhold fabricated Banemaw as excuse to avoid external blame. But the internal guilt ate away at her, to the point the young Faithhold used it to motivate her to go on and pursue a (what later turns out to be successful life) life crusading against evil in general and Banemaw in specific.

Whereas her crusade against evil in general was genuine, somewhere deep in her heart, Faithhold knows that her chase after Banemaw she’s just chasing a mere phantom of her imagination. Still, having created Banemaw as a lie, this gives her some insight into the dark minds and souls of the guilty, an insight that ironically gives her a unique edge in the fight against evil. To alleviate her sense of guilt, Faithhold turns the lie of Banemaw into an ideological bludgeon for good- the visions have revealed to her that the dread dragon Banemaw can feed on sin to become stronger and enter this world. And people lap it up- it propels her to an early path to knighthood. Even after she becomes a paladin and forswears lying, she speaks of Banemaw as more of a metaphorical being than something that actually existed. Therefore, Banemaw’s creation is directly related to Faithhold success as a paladin.

Now let’s talk about the dark part of her rise to power. Perhaps somewhere along the lines this lying got somebody hurt- somebody falsely incriminated by her early, pre-paladin days of lying. Ryan Naylor’s Pathfinder in the Mists has darklords failing powers checks even before they come to Ravenloft- implying that the Dark Powers can and do reward/punish evil acts even on the Material Plane just like they do in Ravenloft. Lying is a crime much less likely to draw the Dark Powers attention, but it still can happen. Somewhere along the line one of her lies causes young Faithhold to fail her first powers check, and the Dark Powers reward with the ability to actually receive visions to base her lies upon. Or maybe she just lies enough that her overly active imagination begins working in a usually lucid dreaming state.

Regardless of the source of her visions, the “visionary” Faithhold is different from the truly delusional or the truly supernaturally sighted in that her conscious mind knows the visions aren’t from truly divine sources. (I.e., they’re not credible). However, she consciously chooses to shove her doubts to the back of her mind with false reassurances and rationalizations. The liar has become so proficient in lying that she can lie to herself.

But whereas her visions are phoney-baloney, Faithhold's will to champion the cause of good is genuine (or at least the guilt that fuels it is genuine). Therefore, she makes a holy warrior valuable to the cause. She stops talking about Banemaw as something that actually literally existed and uses it as a metaphorical bogeyman (thus avoiding actually lying). She does holy works and penance to outwardly (if not directly) atone for any sins she might've committed, but internally she never gets past her early lies. And thus, the possible effects of the Powers Check linger with her, along with the cognitive dissonance that will eventually become her torment.

Time passes, and her early life is forgotten as the War on Evil carries on. Early on things look promising, but with the death of her companion Kateri Shadowbourne things begin to fall apart. As the people look to Faithhold for guidance, even put her up on a pedestal, the pressure is too great for her. The visions come back, and she consciously resurrects the image of Banemaw as a physical threat. This not only creates a social atmosphere of paranoia where her dark crusade can thrive but also spreads like a contagion out of her control. Her more zealous and irrational followers act with violence without her command, and Faithhold reacts by covering things up and blaming the whole matter on Banemaw. Worse, when doubt comes around as to the existence of Banemaw, sometimes she has to directly work violence in its name to perpetuate the myth.

Unlike the traditional take on Faithhold that highlights her ruthless zealotry and stubborn pride as the cause for her damnation, the “visionary” take on Faithhold is more about her lies- starting with the lies that ironically put her on the path to righteousness and just as ironically caused her to fall from it. Not just to others but also herself. In this situation, I believe Faithhold’s ultimate torment might be, like for the girl in the link Manofevil gave or the creator of Little Slugger, to see how “Banemaw” would take on a life of its own. A damnation of lie made reality that could, but not necessarily, have a supernatural component to it.

[divinedragonslayer]

I like the fact you came up with something completely different for Elana. It's a pretty interesting idea I played with in my head. The problem is what does a manifestation of Bonemaw mean for the campaign? If Banemaw becomes real in my campaign it's a manifestation meant to play at Faith-hold's crisis of faith.

And it would be an okay way to use him as a manifestation of the mists, but I don't know. Really I need to write up an analog for Elana in this campaign. This analog will a surrogate for the doubt and crisis of faith within Elana's heart. A lawful neutral cleric of Belenus she upholds Elana's rules without question or mostly without question as she sees the brutality intertwined with Elana's brand of justice she starts secretly questioning everything she's learned. Being a surrogate for Elana I also want her to find salvation in the face of the crimes she's committed. This in turn is symbolically redeems a younger Elana from the crimes of the darklord.

[The Lesser Evil]

Well, if you went with the supernatural take on Banemaw, you could make it an especially large mist horror, or apply the template from the Guide to the Mists to a dragon. Or it could be some kind of bogeyman like the other existing fey creatures that seem to spring from myths and legends. Another creative take would be to have some kind of dread golem created by some of Faithhold's underlings and have it be given life not just by its creator's obsessions but also somehow tap into the paranoia and hysteria floating around Nidala.

Of course, you don't have to go with a "spooky" explanation either. A comparatively mundane copycat (or group of copycats) could be responsible for perpetrating Banemaw's acts. Consider, for example, the Spawn of the Lizard from Falknovia. This group of possibly dragon-venerating kobolds are led by an unusually large kobold in the fight against the military establishment there. The Spawn of the Lizard are also tentative allies with Gondegal and his Knights of the Shadows, but relations are so tenuous they haven't been really good at coordinating a lot of activities. What's interesting (and relevant to our discussion) is that the Knights of the Shadows were orginally formed by Alexi Shadowborn of Nidala. It is required for the Knights of the Shadows to return for a yearly pilgrimage to Nidala. (The Book of Shadows elaborates on this in the framing fiction, along with a few rebel NPCs against Faithhold. In this netbook canon, the pilgrimage to the Shadowlands is to renew the bindings that keep Ebonbane from escaping.)

Now I'm thinking, what would happen if a bunch of dragon-venerating kobolds followed some the Knights returning to the Shadowlands? And what would happen if they heard about the legend of Banemaw? BAM, you have a perfectly plausible "mundane" explanation the existence for "Banemaw" that acts independently of Faithhold. Yet she also bears direct responsibility for this in that it was her fabricated lies that inspired these kobolds.

Without the image of Banemaw, the kobolds may have simply returned to Falknovia after their spying on the Knights of the Shadows was complete. But the image of Banemaw is something that might compel them to stay and cause trouble. If nothing else, they could exploit the legend for their own gain. Or perhaps "becoming" Banemaw is a sacred rite to them now; perhaps they are offended by the "pretender" Faithold using an object of their veneration as an ideological tool. I know I'd be pissed if I came all the way from Falknovia to discover what I'd consider to be a living god to be a complete fabrication. That would surely set me on the warpath. You don't want to piss these guys off. And whereas kobolds are known for being weak cannon fodder, the Spawn of the Lizard are different. They have experience fighting off Drakov's minions in on his home turf. That's no mean feat. It also means they have experience resisting tyrants through trickery, deceit, and possibly magic. Although Faithhold's clergy can cast spells, I'd imagine many of the tactics the Spawn of the Lizard used on Drakov's men could be adapted to work against Faithhold's servants.

[The Lesser Evil]

And as for your "Faithhold II", perhaps Faithhold I's curse (as related in the "visionary" version) is beginning to happen again to a younger clergywoman. She's having visions of a questionable quality. Faithhold sees a kindred spirit in her and begins (ostensibly) grooming the young woman to be her successor. Faithhold the Elder could be taking the young visionary under her wing for any number of reasons. perhaps she truly does want a worthy heir that resembles her life experience. Or perhaps she's been around this block before and she knows how it goes; in this case, the motivation is to keep any potential rabble rousers under her thumb. Or perhaps on some subconscious level, Faithhold recognizes the potential good in the young visionary and is setting up a better person to lead when she is gone. And in so doing this, she would be having an atonement of sorts. Of course, I would see the latter, more benign motivation to be almost entirely unconscious on Faithhold's part. If it's the latter, there may be an almost infinitesimally small chance of using Faithhold II to get to Faithhold I.

Now, to avoid Faithhold II getting dinged by Faithhold I's "detect passion" ability, we need to come up with a reason why Faithhold II doesn't have strong feelings for or against Faithhold I. But I think you've provided an answer there- her doubt. Not knowing where she stands on Faithhold I and her ruthless tactics keeps Faithold II from getting on Faithhold 1's radar simply because her emotions on Faithhold aren't strong enough to be of notice. Faithhold II might be tormented by some deep-seated inner conflict and turmoil about what to do, but this may probably relate more to the feelings Faithhold II has for herself (and how she defines herself) rather than those she has for Faithhold I. Of course, once Faithhold II makes up her mind, she may become a target for Faithhold I's wrath. But for right now the ambiguity Faithhold II feels may be what is keeping her from winding up in Faithhold I's dungeons.

[divinedragonslayer]

If Banemaw is a mist horror which isn't a bad idea. I've played with the idea some myself the mist horror, but as a mist horror it would be directly tied to Faithhold as it is formed from the malice of those she's hurt or killed in the past. It would essentially be her beating heart. Granted this idea being something of a mixture of our ideas.

I'm thinking that in this campaign Bonemaw is Faithhold's way of bringing the populous together not as a punishment. This highlights her losing control of her people and she knows it. Though she won't admit it she knows there are cracks within her system. Using Banemaw she seeks to unite her people with the lie. It's the lie mixed with the malice of those slain that creates the horror of Bonemaw to torment the faithful. Though not the way Faithhold decrees.

As for Faithhold II I see her as a lawful Neutral cleric. She could be groomed by Elana to be part of an inner advisory position or to act in her stead. And she starts out as unquestioning. She is driven by the ideal of justice and law. But as time goes on she starts seeing the cruelty and horror brought on by Elana's twisted pursuit of paradise.

[The Lesser Evil]

Cool. Sounds like you're ready to go.

I've found this discussion quite helpful in getting the gears in my mind working on Faithhold/Nidala as well.