Using Nidala and Bonemaw

[Hamiclar]

Wouldn't any thing dragonlike be called a Bonemaw! Check Quoth The Raven Issue 4 the serpent entry may be of interest.

[divinedragonslayer]

I've come to the crossroads where I've asked myself what does using Bonemaw do for the story? Bonemaw as a living breathing dragon? Absolutely nothing. Bonemaw as a manifestation of the mists designed to torment the faithful for their sins against the innocent? Now that has potential.

More than Bonemaw I'm finding Theokos fathering a half devil sorcerer is much more interesting. Theokos has his own 'agenda' which involves further corrupting lady Fathhold.

I agree with The Lesser Evil's post about Elana. Basically Theokos and Banemaw have as intended or not become bhysical manifestations of Elana's curse of cognitive dissonance. Theokos becoming the proponent of peace by absolute law at any cost while Bonemaw is the coalesced entity of pain and misery Elana has released through her bloody rule. Bonemaw has become Elana's main source feelings of failure, doubt, and impotence.

[IrvyneWolfe]

I've always seen Banemaw as a sign of Elena's declining mental health. Her determination to destroy evil at all costs, and her fake detect evil power, lead to innocent villages getting wiped out occasionally. While she's filled with doubts about her actions, wholesale slaughter would make it pretty hard to not move beyond that into full on despair.

In short, sometime after becoming the Darklord Elena snapped entirely. She believes Banemaw destroyed these villages for their evil. However, Banemaw only ever existed in her head. Those closest to her have read her insistence of an evil dragon committing these purges as a mandate to sell the story to the populace. Whatever stand in physical Banemaw you want to use is a product of Thekos, and some of Elena's other advisors trying to cover for the boss.

However, Banemaw is the lynch pin in Elena remaining as she was originally presented. She knows, subconsciously that she did these things, and they feed her doubts and insecurities. Her nightmares must be pretty damn epic in my opinion. If she should ever discover that Banemaw doesn't exist, and that she was the one doing these things, she'd be forced to admit how far she's fallen. This could conceivably lead to her losing her Darklord status. However characters like Thekos and Ebonbane are going to move heaven and earth to make sure that never happens.

[divinedragonslayer]

In the case you're looking at is Bonemaw an alternate personality or just something her mind makes up?

[IrvyneWolfe]

In the case you're looking at is Bonemaw an alternate personality or just something her mind makes up?

Yeah Bonemaw is more or less just an excuse her mind made up to shift all the conscious blame she feels about her slaughter onto. He doesn't exist, but her advisers perpetuate the lie because it's a great cover for the occasional purge they "need" to do.

[divinedragonslayer]

You said it's something that Thekos uses when he 'needs' to deal with a village. So Elana wouldn't directly be involved in those actions?

[IrvyneWolfe]

You said it's something that Thekos uses when he 'needs' to deal with a village. So Elana wouldn't directly be involved in those actions?

Yes and no. Whenever Elena loses it and slaughters a village she doesn't remember doing it and blames it on Banemaw. If Thekos or anyone else needs to wipe out a settlement for any reason they'd claim Banemaw too but simply because it's convenient.

I only foresee an actual physical Banemaw if/when Elena loses her Darklord-ship. The Mists might craft a Banemaw as a physical representation of her cruelty and hypocrisy to taunt her even as she attempts to come to grips with what she's become and possibly seek redemption. All this occurs as the domain slowly is enveloped by the phantasmal forest.

[divinedragonslayer]

That is something certainly to consider. My question is an atrocity committed in the name of Elana Faith-hold the same as one committed directly by her? If the answer is yes that works for Bonemaw. But I'm looking at the human mind's ability to rationalize brutal acts.

[IrvyneWolfe]

Yes they can be used interchangeably in this example.

[divinedragonslayer]

Assuming that Banemaw is either a lie created by Thekos or a creature from a nightmare of a degrading mind to explain the atrocities committed in the name peace Bonemaw is nothing more than a perpetuated lie. I'd like a mist horror that represents the manifestation of pain and sorrow her holy war has created.

I just think it undermines her role as a darklord if she gets free excuses if she's not entirely in control of her actions IE blacking out or Thekos did theses things behind her back. Though perhaps she could've convinced herself of the lie in a desperate attempt to shift blame from herself.

[The Lesser Evil]

My take on Theokos is that he's neither a dream projection nor a devil (well, not completely). Unlike Faithhold who presumably was mostly good at some point, Theokos has always been rotten to the core- cunning and manipulative. While Faithhold can be very cunning and manipulative herself, her malice is one that tends to burn hot. Theokos's evil burns icy cold, he plots and plans; he truly has little feeling beyond a detached sense of condescension for those around him. He nominally served the cause for good and played the humble wise man and adviser because it suited his needs- being on the side of Good meant that you were less likely to be punished for your sins. But he was always there to bend his puppets to his will, not so much as to corrupt them but to wrap them around his little finger for his own selfish purposes. Faithhold was just one of his pet projects he had going to seize power. Pushing her to expand more about her delusional lies and to use violence against her critics made him work for her kind of like an evil Jiminy Cricket.

As Faithhold damned herself through a series of evil actions resulting in failed powers checks, Theokos was also damning himself, but in a more literal way. He was undergoing a transposition with a fiend, an ice devil (gelugon), for the coldness he showed towards others. When Faithhold was drawn into Ravenloft, Theokos came along for the ride. Though he was in the latter stages of the transposition, the transposition never completely finished. In a twist of irony, the Dark Powers decided to afflict both man and fiend by merging them into one body- the old man's body alternately inhabited by the man's mind, the fiend's mind, and both at the same time. This is an ironic punishment considering Theokos two-faced nature. Now the Manflesh-Fiend's nature truly is divided- between his simple greed and lust for power and the fiend's true malice. Things are getting worse for Theokos as the fiend inside may be staring to go mad. And sometimes his whole form shifts into this strangely buglike form, during which he tends to black out.

Theokos' coldness is what has let him escape from Faithhold's attentions. She is nothing more than a pitifully deluded puppet, albeit a very useful one. He still plays the role of an adviser to Faithhold, but he represents the torment of her cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy all the more.

As fiend/human crossbreed, Theokos is considered a native outsider (and therefore has no reality wrinkle or phylactery). Like a rakshasa, he has a fiendish essence imbedded inside mortal flesh. Statistically, you may consider him a half-fiend (with occasional moments of slipping into full but uncontrolled ice devil mode.)

[divinedragonslayer]

Now that is an interesting take on on the guy. Now I didn't mean that Theokos was a dream or anything like that. He's come to be more of a representative of the lawful evil corrupting force. Though I do like the parallel between Shadowbane and Theokos. More than anything I'd like to hear what you came up for his backstory before I make any real hard decisions in that regard.

[IrvyneWolfe]

My take on Theokos is that he's neither a dream projection nor a devil (well, not completely). Unlike Faithhold who presumably was mostly good at some point, Theokos has always been rotten to the core- cunning and manipulative. While Faithhold can be very cunning and manipulative herself, her malice is one that tends to burn hot. Theokos's evil burns icy cold, he plots and plans; he truly has little feeling beyond a detached sense of condescension for those around him. He nominally served the cause for good and played the humble wise man and adviser because it suited his needs- being on the side of Good meant that you were less likely to be punished for your sins. But he was always there to bend his puppets to his will, not so much as to corrupt them but to wrap them around his little finger for his own selfish purposes. Faithhold was just one of his pet projects he had going to seize power. Pushing her to expand more about her delusional lies and to use violence against her critics made him work for her kind of like an evil Jiminy Cricket.

As Faithhold damned herself through a series of evil actions resulting in failed powers checks, Theokos was also damning himself, but in a more literal way. He was undergoing a transposition with a fiend, an ice devil (gelugon), for the coldness he showed towards others. When Faithhold was drawn into Ravenloft, Theokos came along for the ride. Though he was in the latter stages of the transposition, the transposition never completely finished. In a twist of irony, the Dark Powers decided to afflict both man and fiend by merging them into one body- the old man's body alternately inhabited by the man's mind, the fiend's mind, and both at the same time. This is an ironic punishment considering Theokos two-faced nature. Now the Manflesh-Fiend's nature truly is divided- between his simple greed and lust for power and the fiend's true malice. Things are getting worse for Theokos as the fiend inside may be staring to go mad. And sometimes his whole form shifts into this strangely buglike form, during which he tends to black out.

Theokos' coldness is what has let him escape from Faithhold's attentions. She is nothing more than a pitifully deluded puppet, albeit a very useful one. He still plays the role of an adviser to Faithhold, but he represents the torment of her cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy all the more.

As fiend/human crossbreed, Theokos is considered a native outsider (and therefore has no reality wrinkle or phylactery). Like a rakshasa, he has a fiendish essence imbedded inside mortal flesh. Statistically, you may consider him a half-fiend (with occasional moments of slipping into full but uncontrolled ice devil mode.)

A nice take on the character. I was never really wild about there being a devil kicking around Nidala with Ebonbane living next door.

[The Lesser Evil]

Now that is an interesting take on on the guy. Now I didn't mean that Theokos was a dream or anything like that. He's come to be more of a representative of the lawful evil corrupting force. Though I do like the parallel between Shadowbane and Theokos. More than anything I'd like to hear what you came up for his backstory before I make any real hard decisions in that regard.

Nothing too concrete yet. Planning on a fusion of Gilles de Rais and King Charles VII for his background. Will post later when have had time to finish writing up my thoughts.

[divinedragonslayer]

The more I read it the more I like the idea. I just need a backstory. I have a couple of ideas for Theokos really. Either he's a once powerful mage with a soul of ice or heart of ice. Someone who at one time turned his back on the suffering on those around him for selfish reasons. Perhaps even going as far as turning his back on his family.

My other idea is that Theokos was a powerful mage who attempted to meld his flesh with that of a fiend's.