Comments/suggestions on Jester's rules (5e)

[therealvang]

I am currently attempting a "Castles Forlorn" conversion and would be glad to post what monsters I have converted for discussion. Right now I am converting the monsters off of their 2E and 3.5 statistic and am trying to keep true to the difficulty the monsters represent in 2E.

[alhoon]

Good, could you please, after adding them, tell us which monsters you introduced so we can check them and give you our opinion?

[Jester of the FoS]

I am currently attempting a "Castles Forlorn" conversion and would be glad to post what monsters I have converted for discussion. Right now I am converting the monsters off of their 2E and 3.5 statistic and am trying to keep true to the difficulty the monsters represent in 2E.

If you need particular monsters I do requests.

[Jander Sunstar]

If you need particular monsters I do requests.

Speaking of requests, how are the conversions coming along?

[Jester of the FoS]

If you need particular monsters I do requests.

Speaking of requests, how are the conversions coming along?

Slowly. My life is busy and I'm doing lots of small projects, so I only manage a few monsters each week.

[therealvang]

I am currently attempting a "Castles Forlorn" conversion and would be glad to post what monsters I have converted for discussion. Right now I am converting the monsters off of their 2E and 3.5 statistic and am trying to keep true to the difficulty the monsters represent in 2E.

If you need particular monsters I do requests.

Yeah I have been trying to convert the Darklord Tristen ApBlanc from the adventure and he seems to come out with next to no health and the AC of a walking wall. If you wanna take that on as a request I would be very grateful. As for right now all of my conversions are on paper but once I get them to my PC I will post some of them. Thank for the help!

[therealvang]

Here is a converted 2.0 Vampyre with stats borrowed from 3.0

Vampyre
Monstrous Humanoid
_____________________________________
Armor Class 13 (natural) or by armor
Hit Points 49
Speed 30 ft
_____________________________________
_STR _DEX_ _CON_ _INT_ _WIS_ CHA
15(+2) 12(+1) 13(+1) 15(+2) 12(+1) 17(+3)
_____________________________________
Saving Throws Dex +3 Cha +5
Sences Darkvision 60 ft passive Perception 11
Languages Common
Challenge 4 (1,100)
______________________________________

Pack Tactics The vampyre has advantage on attack rolls
against a creature if at least one of the vampyre's allies
is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally is not incapacitated

Actions________________________________
Multiattack. The vampyre makes 2 claw attacks
followed by a bite on a successful grapple.

Claws. Melee Weapon Attack:+5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one
target. Hit:5 (1d6 + 2) slashing damage. Instead of dealing damage
the vampyre may attempt a grapple DC 14.

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack:+5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one
target. Hit:6 (1d8 + 2) piercing damage plus 3 (1d6) necrotic damage
the target's hit point maximum is reduced by a amount equal to the necrotic
damage taken. Additionally the target must make a DC 15 wisdom saving throw
or be charmed by the vampyre.
(Optionally the DC may increase by a +1 for each 2 point of necrotic damage taken)

So I use this guide for my conversions https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tMJ ... U2exg/edit Please feel free to use, comment, ect. Tell me what ya think!

[alhoon]

Well, the Vampyre you present here is certainly not CR4. Closer to CR 1 or 2 at most I would say.

For conformity, I would say increase dex to 14 and strength to 16 and lower natural armor from +2 to +1.

Here is the one I used in Death Unchained (which doesn't have vampyres, I know. I added them)

Vampyre

AC 15 hp 45 (7HD)
str 16 dex 14 con 14
int 12 wis 12 cha 16
Skills: deception+5, stealth+4, perception+3
Saves: Str+5, cha+5

low-light vision
blood drain (grappled target)
Charm by bite: Con DC 13. Repeat the save to break if the char takes damage (1 min)
Multi-attack: claws, 1 bite

claws+5~>1d6+3
bite+5~>1d6+3+charm
blood drain: grapple check, bite dam +2d6 necrotic (en.drain)
automatic hit on charmed

leather armor

Challenge 2, 450XP

[therealvang]

Well, the Vampyre you present here is certainly not CR4. Closer to CR 1 or 2 at most I would say.

For conformity, I would say increase dex to 14 and strength to 16 and lower natural armor from +2 to +1.

Here is the one I used in Death Unchained (which doesn't have vampyres, I know. I added them)

Vampyre

AC 15 hp 45 (7HD)
str 16 dex 14 con 14
int 12 wis 12 cha 16
Skills: deception+5, stealth+4, perception+3
Saves: Str+5, cha+5

low-light vision
blood drain (grappled target)
Charm by bite: Con DC 13. Repeat the save to break if the char takes damage (1 min)
Multi-attack: claws, 1 bite

claws+5~>1d6+3
bite+5~>1d6+3+charm
blood drain: grapple check, bite dam +2d6 necrotic (en.drain)
automatic hit on charmed

leather armor

Challenge 2, 450XP

I went over my notes again and I agree that the CR is definitely to high. Using its CR rating from 3.5 would bring it down to a 3 which I feel is more appropriate. If I use the stats you present but keep my damage dice and effects for attacks and go from there working off of the rules from the DGM page 275 would bring its CR to a 2. My only reservation with that is at least as far as I can tell the rules in the DGM do not account for added effects (charm and hit point maximum debuffing) which I feel make this monster particularly dangerous.

[alhoon]

I was thinking the same, but my PCs had very little trouble with Vampyres, about the same trouble they would have with ogres, if not less.

However, in my implementation the Vampyre didn't auto-grapple, it had to to grapple first. If it successfully grappled then it would make a bite attack that reduced maximum hp and had a chance to charm.
I put them along with Falkovnian Talons but the PCs usually killed the fanged guys first.
In any case, most of the time the Vampyres went for claw & bite, not grapple & blood drain because of the high AC of the PCs.
Charm? Between needing success to grapple, then a successful hit roll to bite and then a failed save... didn't happen.

[therealvang]

Well I will attempt a play test using our combined suggestions tonight against some lvl 4 players probably drop about 4 on their heads and I will let you know how it goes. Also my version has pack tactics so hopefully they will be more likely to hit assuming they win the initiative. Thanks for the comments!

[alhoon]

FOUR Vampyres vs 4th lvl characters? That's too deadly. It's equivalent of 3600 XP ( 450 x 4 vampyres x2 for number). 4 Vampyres would be deadly against 6 4th lvl characters with a possible TPK.
Don't forget that 4 monsters ~ x2 XP. Not in how much XP you award but on estimating battle difficulty.

[therealvang]

FOUR Vampyres vs 4th lvl characters? That's too deadly. It's equivalent of 3600 XP. 4 Vampyres would be deadly against 6 4th lvl characters with a possible TPK.
Don't forget that 4 monsters ~ x2 XP.

well ya your probably right. this is just a play test wont actually account for any thing just want to get a idea of where they are at. they did just kill a young green dragon with 4 people. I was impressed!. Just a heads up to I am a new DM going thru the starter kit at the moment so please exscuse any noobishness on my part.

[alhoon]

Another thing: Jester, did you add the ghoul lord?
I have some suggestions:
1. give him resistance to non-magical weapons that aren't made of cold iron
2. increase his con to 16 (and reduce HD if you want less hp) so that the ghoul lord could have paralysis DC 13 and sickness 13.
NOTE: Sickness = poisoned = disadvantage to attack rolls. Hence I would say this ability increases the Ghoul Lord's effective AC by 1. (Someone will get infected probably, but not immediatelly)
Paralysis = attack with advantage, doing critical on hit, enemy doesn't attack. So I would say it should give a +2 to effective attack roll and increase effective hp by 15% (you suffer less attacks)

Now aside of the above suggestions, I find the damage 2d8+3 too much. Perhaps reduce to 1d8+3? After all the ghoul lord makes 3 bite attacks per round.

[alhoon]

FOUR Vampyres vs 4th lvl characters? That's too deadly. It's equivalent of 3600 XP. 4 Vampyres would be deadly against 6 4th lvl characters with a possible TPK.
Don't forget that 4 monsters ~ x2 XP.

well ya your probably right. this is just a play test wont actually account for any thing just want to get a idea of where they are at. they did just kill a young green dragon with 4 people. I was impressed!. Just a heads up to I am a new DM going thru the starter kit at the moment so please exscuse any noobishness on my part.

No worries. I didn't want to give you the impression I was looking down to you friend or something. I certainly don't. I saw a monster, I saw a member asking for help so I did the obvious: I helped the monster!
*Cough* I mean I helped with a monster and with the Difficulty calculation. Yes, that's what I mean. I would never help the monster against a member. Unless the monster was very ri-...I mean, never.