Mongrelmen of Ravenloft

[ewancummins]

A thread for all things Mongrelman (or Mongrelfolk, if you prefer)

First, what does the Black Box say? They make the suggested monsters list and show up on encounter lists for a few domains. Darkon, Hazlan, and G'Henna, yes?
The theme is basically magical transformation.

Van Richten's Guide to Ghosts mentions mongrelmen in Darkon, IIRC.

Bog-standard mongrelmen are LN in most editions. They first appear in 1E materials and can be found in MM2.

The Complete Book of Humanoids presented a different method for creating them as PCs.

Monster Mythology gives them a god, Meriadar.


Dragon magazine included a peculiar take on mongrelman origins and stat/looks generation.


In Forbidden Lore, we have the Ata Bestaal (spelling?) , wannabe beasts/lycanthropes whose relatives were cursed/blessed with mongrelman status by the power of Zhakata.

In 3E, the race gets changed further. I don't have Races of Destiny, but I've skimmed it. I'll let someone who knows the 3E mongrels provide relevant lore.



So, with all that and whatever anybody else cares to add, what's the deal with mongrelmen of Ravenloft?
How do they differ between domains/creators/backgrounds?
What powers, if any, do they serve or worship? Are they mostly LN, or do some groups align differently?
What relations do they have with other races?

[The Lesser Evil]

The Ecology of the Mongrelman in Dragon #242 seems to contradict Monster Mythology, whereupon the Dragon article says they don't have a true god other than the Hidden One that confabulates their creation by a wizard with a divine being. According to the article, the mongrelfolk are originally descended from an artificially created race of beings called Infiltrators that were able to take in the genetic traits of other races by eating upon the flesh in a ritual called "the Feasting". Mongrelfolk today may continue this behavior for varying reasons, but it has an effect only so far as to pass down genes to their offspring. It's uncertain at best if the mongrelfolk of Ravenloft have this origin, as they are mostly mentioned in the context of G'Henna as victims of Petrovna's magic or as members of the Barovian Belview family that in madness sought the Abbot to transform them into monstrous or lycanthropic shapes and their descendants (Curse of Strahd). Hazlani mongrelfolk might have belief in the Hidden One and the origin in Dragon 242. The ones in Darkon IIRC were originally refugees from G'Henna, so it's uncertain what perceptions the memory alteration of Darkon would do to them regarding their perceived origins. In any case, if one is inclined to believe the mongrelfolk of other worlds partake in the Feasting, the rarity of nonhuman humanoid races in Ravenloft might suggest that Ravenloft mongrelfolk may choose to feast upon corpses for individual based traits rather than racial based traits. In Ravemloft, the Feasting would likely represent a dangerous behavior.

Although mongrelfolk are lawful neutral, their focus of survival over everything else seems to engender a cluster of possible behaviors that might seem contradictory. Although mongrelfolk are generally peaceful/pacifistic and even accepting of abuse heaped upon them, it's stated that free mongrelfolk are not hesitant to attack any creature they believe represents a true danger to their communities. And while they are generally avoidant of contact with other races as attested by their ability to camouflage, mongrelfolk will also resort to theft to get what they need to get by, as attested by their skill at pickpocketing. They also have an innate racial ability of voice/sound mimicry, which would imply they are willing to use deception unless this is a trait left over from the Infiltrators. On the other hand, Dragon magazine says they are unwilling to use polymorph magic to conceal their forms, as they are seen as conditions imposed on them by the Hidden One.


The Third Edition Fiend Folio says their origins lie in "generations of crossbreeding" between different races. The rarity and elusiveness of Ravenloft nonhumans again makes this origin of Ravenloft mongrelfolk unlikely, with the possible exception of Hazalni mongrelfolk (whom might represent a survival of sorts for the various lost inhuman civilizations in Hazlani historyFalse history if one were to speculate) or Darkonian mongrelfolk that were outlanders or the descendants of outlanders. According to the Fiend Folio, mongrelfolk speak both Common and their own racial language which is a pidgin. According to Races of Destiny, this is called Mongrel. The FF and RoD also afford mongrelfolk the ability to meet any racial requirements for using a magic item.

Races of Destiny lists their alignments as trending towards chaos and neutrality as opposed to pre-RoD alignments. Races of Destiny also seems to uniquely among the sources to mute the visibility of their deformities, usually allowing them to pass as strange individuals of other races, with truly hideous members being the rare exception rather than the rule. Races of Destiny also says they often enjoy meeting new people and going to new places, a seeming contradiction to their reclusive nature (relative to other races) of previous sources. I am guessing Ravenloft mongrelfolk generally favor the previously indicated existences isolated from other races.

The 5e Curse of Strahd module doesn't give a specified alignment trend for mongrelfolk, listing them as being able to hold any alignment. According to that source, mongrelfolk features don't only combine those of humanoids but also have limbs and such of beasts. There's also a random table of powers for mongrelfolk, such as amphibious physiology, keen senses, and even flight or two-heads. A specific clan of mongrelfolk appears in the module, the Belview family, representing the descendants of mad nobles who sought out the Abbot to help them transform into a higher (to their eyes, more animal/likebestial) physical forms, which they regarded as higher states of existence. The Belviews seem to be highly unusual in that regard, but then all of the individuals presented are insane.

[Hell_Born]

I think part of the problem with figuring out how mongrelfolk an Ravenloft go together is because there's been a lot of confusion/overlap between mongrelfolk (the products of multigenerational racial interbreeding between often vastly different morphologies) and broken ones (humans warped and twisted into grotesque forms by sorcery or surgery - often but not always a Moreau-esque man-beast). The 5e "mongrelfolk" in particular are obviously broken ones by lore using the former race's name.

[ewancummins]

If we look in the Black Box and see what other sorts of animals and monsters show up in the two domains most associated with Mongrelmen, we might get some ideas about local variations.

G'Hennan Mongrelmen

kobolds
giant insects
wolves
great cats
bats
snakes
herd animals
various small animals
lycanthropes
ghouls are undead, so probably not?

Hazlani mongrelman
bats
wolves
deer
snakes
leucrota
berbalangs
various small animals
imps
Not undead, one would assume.
Lycanthropes
I'm thinking probably not darkenbeasts or crimson deaths.

[ewancummins]

I think part of the problem with figuring out how mongrelfolk an Ravenloft go together is because there's been a lot of confusion/overlap between mongrelfolk (the products of multigenerational racial interbreeding between often vastly different morphologies) and broken ones (humans warped and twisted into grotesque forms by sorcery or surgery - often but not always a Moreau-esque man-beast). The 5e "mongrelfolk" in particular are obviously broken ones by lore using the former race's name.

Agreed.

I didn't mention the possible link between Greyhawk beastmen and the 'beast men' of Markovia. In the Black Box there were as yet no Broken Ones. The Markovia entry mentions beast men. The cardstock monsters that fit Ravenloft list includes GH beastmen.
Broken Ones would show up sooner after, in the first MC supplement for Ravenloft.

GH beastmen are oddballs. Camouflage-furred wildmen of the woods, agile and highly intelligent. They are NG aligned. No magic or gods and they have bigtime magic resistance.
I've seen one in play, years back.

[ewancummins]

Differences I see:

Broken Ones combine, usually, one animal type with humanity. Pig-man, vulture man, etc. These guys are stitched together beast-men, or cruelly "uplifted" animals.

Mongrelmen combine several disparate types in one body: crab claw, goat foot, kobold's scaled snout, etc. They are freaky chimera people.

Broken Ones have a mad science origin. I don't think they can reproduce except by turning over captives to their wicked creators. They are thus somewhat golem-like.

Mongrelmen (Ravenloft natives) originated with curses or wizardly experiments. They can marry and have little mongrel babies, who might look very different from Mommy and Daddy Mongrel.

Broken ones are NE.

Mongrelmen are LN or maybe other alignments, but in any case are not by nature an evil race.

[tomokaicho]

What relations do they have with other races?

The Third Edition Fiend Folio says their origins lie in "generations of crossbreeding" between different races.

What relations DON'T they have with other races?

[ewancummins]

What relations do they have with other races?

The Third Edition Fiend Folio says their origins lie in "generations of crossbreeding" between different races.

What relations DON'T they have with other races?

LOL, true.


The Feasting, from that Dragon article, might be more Ravenloftian than generations of crossbreeding. I wonder if it could be adapted to the G'Hennan Mongrelmen? Maybe some dig up graves and eat people hoping to return to human status? This could fit with The Lesser Evil's suggestions, upthread.
It treads on the ghouls of G'henna, but it might be a nice way to throw off investigator PCs.

[The Lesser Evil]

The generations of crossbreeding thing I take to mean something that happened long ago. However, it's noted somewhere that mongrelfolk can breed true with any other humanoid race (however rare such sexual relations are) though the product of such unions are almost entirely mongrelfolk.

It should be noted that Meriadur is (at least in Monster Mythology) is part of the goblinoid pantheon, even though mongrelfolk are not identified as goblinoids anywhere to my knowledge. Meridur is interesting in that he permits goblinoids of nonevil alignment to also receive priest spells, though these are rare. Even rarer still, any nonevil nonhuman can become a priest of Meriadur, though they are almost always outcasts from their own native races/societies. So we could imagine mongrelfolk identifying with exiles and outcasts of other races. Their entry in Races of Destiny suggests open-mindedness and tolerance are virtues in mongrelfolk society.

It's indicated in the Dragon magazine that some mongrelfolk do indeed eat the flesh of other humanoids hoping that the Hidden One will grant them the power of the eaten specimens if enough corpses are consumed, so consuming the flesh of humans hoping for some notion of human purity is something that could be well taken away from that. It's a topic (as with much about the mongrelfolk) I would treat with a lot of caution and care though.

Edit:On the origins of the Broken ones, they are often asssociated with mad science, though they are not necessarily the product of such, as they can appear in many magic dominant domains such as Darkon, Hazlan, and the Shadow Rift. Shattered Brethren, their psionic cousins, are the creation of Bluetspurean illithid biomancy.

[ewancummins]

I tend to consider psionics a sci fi thing, and the illithids a sci fi monster race.

But I'm happy to mix sci fi and fantasy in my games. Not that I'm quite convinced about mind flayers in Ravenloft...

(I used one in the Realms).

[ewancummins]

I own a copy of Monster Mythology. It's a really good book--like most of Carl Sargeant's work for the game. It tends to track with the Gygax/Moore tradition of presenting humanoids as races of evil people instead of as true monsters. That way of treating these monsters has spawned a lot of cool game lore, and I've used it myself in the past. These days, I'm inclined to give most evil humanoids a less naturalistic feel.

Monster Mythology in Ravenloft might be another good thread. Kanchelsis was mentioned upthread. Mistmaster uses him, yes?

[Mistmaster]

Yes, as a part of a dualistic relligion of Vampires, Dampyrs and Vampyres also opened to humans in Lazendrak, alongside his good aligned sister D'vla. Dampyrs Vampyres and Vampires also venerates the fifteen firstborns of the Vampire race as demigods.

[ewancummins]

RE Origins of Mongrelmen in Ravenloft:


The mixed-breeding is right there in the name, 'mongrelmen', but I prefer going a different direction with these monsters in this particular setting.

It seems probable to me that the Mongrelmen of Hazlan are products of Hazlik's experiments at 'The Tables.'
I think he does it with magic and not mad science, and I don't interbreeding is involved. More like a melding of essences.

G'Hennan mongrelman have a definite published materials origin and it doesn't have anything to do with interbreeding of different species.
Yagno ritually curses blasphemers, stripping them of their human dignity, which blows away in a cloud of glittering motes.
The Black Box notes he has not done this to foreigners. It's not clear if he can.