It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenloft?

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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Cromstar »

Mephisto wrote:
Igor the Henchman wrote:Drakov's case is one of the few instances where I think I can follow their reasoning. Since the writer didn't want Drakov to be Ravenloft's Vlad the Impaler any more
I believe Drakov is closer to Stalin/Hitler/Pol Pot/Mao Zedong than Vlad Tepes Dracula. Especially in the 3rd edition were his title is Kingfürer but also in relation to the cities of Falkovnia, Stangengrad has a name reminiscent the names of cities in the USSR (Stalingrad, Leningad/Petrograd "grad" is a Slavic word meaning town/city/castle or fortified settlement.
Only in 3rd Edition stuff I believe?. In the original he was very much just Vlad Tepes with a rename. There was none of the 20th Century dictator/genocide overlay stuff happening. He was just sadistic...he impaled prisoners and people he didn't care for because he could and he liked it (which to be fair, is worse than the real Vlad Tepes was), and his kingdom wasn't a pleasant place to live, but it wasn't...nazi-fied. I liked the 2nd Ed. version better, personally.
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Igor the Henchman »

He's a lot of things, sure, but you can't ignore that he's called Vlad and that he likes to impale folks.
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Leliel »

Cromstar wrote:
Igor the Henchman wrote:
Mephisto wrote:I saw somewhere that the new Hiregaard is the daughter of Sir Tristan
Not so much, it would seem:
An unparalleled warrior, Myar Hiregaard united the nomadic tribes of the vast plains of Nova Vaasa. But, while respected as a soldier, Myar made a poor peacetime leader. When brutal games could no longer keep her interest, she incited hostilities between two of her vassal tribes, then led her own forces to crush them. Subtly, she did this again and again. After Myar's greatest massacre, the Mists enfolded all of Nova Vaasa, splitting Myar's personality in two when they did. Now she rules her people with strict fairness, but when her bloodlust is piqued, she transforms into the raging knight called Malken and sows discord across the plains.
....the gender swap doesn't really matter to me here, but I don't understand what about this is supposed to be a) horror or b) a curse for this Hiregaard. Nothing about this actually sounds *interesting* in the Ravenloft setting and also skirts a little bit too close to Diamabel in my opinion. Also takes away one of the better parts of Hiregaard, that he wasn't the political ruler of Nova Vaasa. Too many darklords are the political leaders of their domains and that's boring and predictable, when nearly all of them are.

It is, however, far closer to "Jekyll and Hyde." So I really don't blame them for dropping a concept by people who didn't understand the original book for something a lot closer to the true horror of Hyde - that of addiction - works. The horror isn't that she has a split personality that does evil things, the curse is that she can no longer control her fun identity and she's constantly afraid someone will find out. As shown by this video: https://youtu.be/3kUElZGMXm8

It's easy to have her just as a viceroy - the original Tristan Hiregaard was still massively important. And I'll be honest here - Nova Vassa didn't feel like his domain either. It's more blatant horror is, was, and remains being victimized by the aristocratic class. Having a darklord who is the the fist of the Lawgiver in both of her identities fits it way better.

In fact, from what I've seen - every changed darklord seems like a thematic upgrade. Vladeska being tormented by her own ignored conscience in the form of zombies makes it clear why she's a darklord (she could have stopped at any time, but kept choosing not to). Sandira d'Honoraire is driven by decorum and trying to make things seem controlled and safe for her balls, and is homicidally willing to enforce it. Viktra's sin isn't the fact she made life, it's that she views that life as hers, to a creepy and possessive degree. Even the God-Brain is driven by a motive that makes it all too comprehensible; it's dying, and it wants any possible means to delay the inevitable nature of life, the existential horror that everything will one day pass. And Harkon Lukas - I want to trust the guy from his artwork, even though I know who and what he is, which is exactly what he's planning on.

So, no, I think there's a thought process behind all of them beyond performative wokeness. Even if Victor was changed to Viktra out of a desire to be more gender-equal, she's a much different, and in my opinion much more appealing, character.

EDIT: I don't disagree I'm missing some of the worldbuilding, mind. There's a reason I'm figuring out how to fuse the 5E and White Wolf versions.
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Jester of the FoS »

Leliel wrote:So, no, I think there's a thought process behind all of them beyond performative wokeness. Even if Victor was changed to Viktra out of a desire to be more gender-equal, she's a much different, and in my opinion much more appealing, character.
I do agree with that. A lot of thought went into pumping up the theme and tone of the domains and their new darklords. They really did a lot to focus on the horror and tone of some of the lackluster lands.

But... a lot of it could have been done to new domains just as easily. Or added onto the existing lore rather than replacing it. Nothing in the new Tepest requires shrinking the domain, eliminating the Inquisition, or removing 2/3rds of the lords. Or eliminating the majority of Dementliue. Or just making a brand new domain for the zombie apocalypse.

Rather than try to improve what was already there, they just tossed it out.

And really, if discussing performative wokeness, the line begins and ends with Alanik Ray and Arthur Sedgwick. They're gay now. And Sedgewick is black. And Ray is in a wheelchair. It's like they were trying to hit a mandated list of representation and ran out of NPCs. :D
And they didn't even do it right!
Watson is always shown to have a bad leg after an injury in the second Afghan war. Sedgewick should have been in the wheelchair and been the gun-wielding bodyguard to the more mobile but less combative Ray. (Which is totally how he's going to be in my games from now on.)
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Drinnik Shoehorn »

Jester of the FoS wrote:
Leliel wrote:So, no, I think there's a thought process behind all of them beyond performative wokeness. Even if Victor was changed to Viktra out of a desire to be more gender-equal, she's a much different, and in my opinion much more appealing, character.
I do agree with that. A lot of thought went into pumping up the theme and tone of the domains and their new darklords. They really did a lot to focus on the horror and tone of some of the lackluster lands.

But... a lot of it could have been done to new domains just as easily. Or added onto the existing lore rather than replacing it. Nothing in the new Tepest requires shrinking the domain, eliminating the Inquisition, or removing 2/3rds of the lords. Or eliminating the majority of Dementliue. Or just making a brand new domain for the zombie apocalypse.

Rather than try to improve what was already there, they just tossed it out.

And really, if discussing performative wokeness, the line begins and ends with Alanik Ray and Arthur Sedgwick. They're gay now. And Sedgewick is black. And Ray is in a wheelchair. It's like they were trying to hit a mandated list of representation and ran out of NPCs. :D
And they didn't even do it right!
Watson is always shown to have a bad leg after an injury in the second Afghan war. Sedgewick should have been in the wheelchair and been the gun-wielding bodyguard to the more mobile but less combative Ray. (Which is totally how he's going to be in my games from now on.)
To be fair, Ray and Sedgewick being gay isn’t a surprise. I remember one of the Kargatane suggesting it years ago.

The wheelchair in D&D thing is another kettle of fish. The only people I tend to see saying it’s needed are able bodied people. I know a lady in a wheelchair wrote the 3rd party supplement and the wheelchair accessible dungeon in the Candlekeep book, but as someone who works heavily with disabled people, everyone who has been in wheelchair has expressed to me, without exception, that they wish they were not in the chair. Making super-cool-magic-powered-wheelchairs seems redundant in a setting where magic exist to heal and only seems to be wanted by non-wheelchair users to play pretend disabled people. That I find offensive.

As an aside, why is it “you can handle X but not black/gay/other in a game. It’s fantasy, anything can exist!” is spouted by the same people who get angry when you tell them adventurers in a wheelchair don’t make sense when healing magic exists?
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Mephisto of the FoS »

I 've heard about the wheelchair accessible dungeon before, don't know in which context it was made but it doesn't sound as something an evil character would use unless the villain was in a wheelchair. My belief is that as mentioned before most people on a wheelchair would probably want to play characters who are able to walk.

In a world where spells like Heal cure everything I can still see characters imagine someone having a character in a wheelchair, either they don't have the money to heal themselves (so decided to follow the bumpy life of n adventurer) or are afraid of magic to trust that it will heal them. Maybe their ideology or belief is against spell healing as some people are against blood transfusion. But still having a character on a wheelchair sounds ultra-high-fantasy to me, how do such characters travel? If let's say the party has to enter The Forest of Doom that character has to pay attention to rocks and mud puddles as well as the monsters of the forest.

Also what happens when the party has to climb up a mountain, this is a trailer for a documentary about the attempt of Leonidas, who is paralyzed waist down, to climb up to the peak of Mt. Olympus. To try to do that a lot of effort was needed both by him and by his friends https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCysA6Cq9D4

There are super heroes in pop culture who are on a wheelchair like Dr. X from X-men but still he is a telepath so really powerful and even he was using at some point an exoskeleton to move or a modified flying wheelchair to move about. Also he was created if the 60's for a contemporary world not a fantasy (medieval/ancient/Dark Age) setting, he exist though in the Elizabethan era in Marvel 1602 but I don't know if he ever goes outdoors.

The first idea that came to my mind when I heard about a wheelchair accessible dungeon was caltrop traps, does that make me evil? :azalin:

PS
I have created since last year a villain on a wheelchair for this years QtR but it is more as a disguise than out of necessity, inspired by Uxia from the movie Dagon (2001), she has tentacles instead of legs.
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Drinnik Shoehorn »

Found my post from Mangrum’s Tales of Terror thread for H from years ago where I suggested Ray and Arthur were a couple:

http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... 456#p53456
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Mephisto of the FoS »

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:Found my post from Mangrum’s Tales of Terror thread for H from years ago where I suggested Ray and Arthur were a couple:

http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... 456#p53456
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Leliel »

Mephisto wrote: In a world where spells like Heal cure everything I can still see characters imagine someone having a character in a wheelchair, either they don't have the money to heal themselves (so decided to follow the bumpy life of n adventurer) or are afraid of magic to trust that it will heal them. Maybe their ideology or belief is against spell healing as some people are against blood transfusion. But still having a character on a wheelchair sounds ultra-high-fantasy to me, how do such characters travel? If let's say the party has to enter The Forest of Doom that character has to pay attention to rocks and mud puddles as well as the monsters of the forest.

Also what happens when the party has to climb up a mountain, this is a trailer for a documentary about the attempt of Leonidas, who is paralyzed waist down, to climb up to the peak of Mt. Olympus. To try to do that a lot of effort was needed both by him and by his friends https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCysA6Cq9D4

There are super heroes in pop culture who are on a wheelchair like Dr. X from X-men but still he is a telepath so really powerful and even he was using at some point an exoskeleton to move or a modified flying wheelchair to move about. Also he was created if the 60's for a contemporary world not a fantasy (medieval/ancient/Dark Age) setting, he exist though in the Elizabethan era in Marvel 1602 but I don't know if he ever goes outdoors.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Ray doesn't have access to a Heal spell or whatever wound caused it is cursed, so it's the chair.

As for dungeon-crawling goes...

I somehow doubt a detective is going to be that concerned with where his wheels can go in the Crypt. He's more interested in the solving of murders that involve the undead coming out of it, other people handle the arrests/slaying.
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Igor the Henchman »

Alanik's being in a wheelchair isn't about encouraging people to play disabled characters. Gonzoron has explained the general point of it very well in an earlier post.
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Drinnik Shoehorn »

Igor the Henchman wrote:Alanik's being in a wheelchair isn't about encouraging people to play disabled characters. Gonzoron has explained the general point of it very well in an earlier post.
It’s not, no. But most people excited about playing wheelchair bound characters are able bodied.

I was in a group in Facebook where a US ex-marine who lost his legs to an IED was critical of the concept and he was told by able bodied members that he was wrong, that he didn’t speak for all disabled people (despite other disabled people being critical of it in the group) and that they couldn’t wait to play one.
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

I'll point out that, while it's doubtful the new book will stick with old-school low-magic Ravenloft, I could easily see a wheelchair using character in a world where you can't just hop over to the Temple of Ilmater and drop a sack of gp for a Regeneration or Heal spell. The magic may exist at high levels, but do enough benevolent high level NPCs and PCs exist to cast it on every person who could benefit from it? We've had canon NPCs with eyepatches, peg legs, blind characters, and the like. The whole thing gets a "meh, I'll allow it" from me. I'm not going to get worked up over it. If it makes someone happy to see it, I'm not going to yuk their yum.

I get that an able-bodied players playing a disabled character has some cringe potential, but if we disallow that, where does that end? No one allowed to play a different ethnic group PC? No one allowed to play different gendered PC? It's not the same as whitewashed casting in movies, where there are actors of the right checkboxes that could be hired. It's a game that's completely about playing a role that's not you. As long you're not playing into harmful stereotypes, I say play whoever you want to play.
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Re: It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenlof

Post by Drinnik Shoehorn »

This Reddit post describes the metaplot of 5e Ravenloft.

Worst thing they’ve done? Defined the Dark Powers.
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